Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder rosedee Novitiate

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    Default Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    Hello,

    I've just received form BF85A (changes which may affect your benefit for IB & SDA) asking me to detail what other benefits I'm on and any changes they need to know about. It also specifically asks about Pension Income.

    I've never been asked about my occupational benefit before - i started receiving IB before 6th April 2001, so remained exempt from having it taken into account. Checking the accompanying booklet, it specifies that the pension income rules do not apply to me because of this.

    My question is, should i put that i receive the pension on the form (with or without details) or as i'm exempt from taking it into account do i just leave it blank?

    Relatedly, I have tried on several occasions from different sources to try to find out what will happen regarding my occupational pension when my migration happens. I'm not clear whether the exemption loses its validity once i'm on ESA.

    I really appreciate any advice/views about the above.


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    I was in a similar position to you re old claim for IB. In my case my partner claimed WTC, although my IB did not count as income, I still had to inform HMRC, when I was migrated to ESA my partner lost WTC (or would have done had they not retired).

    If it specifically asks you about pension income you should report it. It may not make any difference but you must still tell them. If you are still unsure you should phone up and ask.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    if your occupational pension is more than 70 per week this will affect your entitlement to ib, they will remove pound for pound from your ib, i have to send them details every year of my pension luckily or not I am under this allowance so it doesnt apply but they still insist on seeing evidence year on year


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    2.5.1 Entitlement to Incapacity Benefit prior to 6 April 2001

    Where a person has been continuously entitled to Incapacity Benefit since prior to 6 April 2001, pension payments will not affect Incapacity Benefit entitlement. If the claim is broken but the person later re-qualifies for Incapacity Benefit, pension payments can still be ignored if the periods of incapacity can be linked.

    I dont think your pension will be taken into account against your ESA, if you go accross to ESA and are accepted you should receive the same benefit because you have transitional protection to April 2020 if you remain on ESA....

    Also just found this for ESA conts people who claim is to close after 365 days

    Having looked into this and received correspondence from the ESA Policy Team (via my MP) it would appear that at the end of one's one year on CB ESA (if placed in the WRAG) provided there is a gap of 12 weeks then one can submit another claim for CB ESA.

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  5. #5
    Basic Account Holder rosedee Novitiate

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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    thanks for your replies. Mike your comment re transitional protection and ESA is particularly reassuring, as I would probably lose all esa if they started taking my nhs pension into account. Though as I've just heard I won't now qualify for state pension til i'm 66, I will lose out at the end (I realise that is based on the assumption that I would go into the ESA support group - though there is little realistic chance of me improving sufficiently to return to work (if there was I wouldn't have got an ill-health retirement pension at the age of 44!) I appreciate that doesn't mean ATOS will agree........)


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    yes if you are put in the WRAG then you will be subject to the 12 month rules....
    but you should hopefully not go in there

    here are the rules for pensions

    Pensions prior to conversion
    45465 Certain pension payments or PPF periodic payments, described at DMG 44716 et seq, do not fall to be deducted from ESA(Cont). In addition any pension payment or PPF periodic payment is disregarded1 where

    1. the claimant was entitled to IB immediately before conversion to ESA and
    2. IB was not reduced by a pension or PPF payment2 because
    2.1 the claimant was entitled to DLA care component at the highest rate3 or
    2.2 the claimant qualified for IB under the provisions for those incapacitated in youth because of previous entitlement to SDA4 or
    2.3 the claimant was entitled to IB before 6.4.01 on any day of IfW in a PIW
    which began before and continues after that date5

    iro of your case but this may change


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    is this why my pension is taken into account as my claim for IB was from 2007..even though I only get 140.00 per month they still insist on seeing the evidence year on year even though it is never going to make the 70 quid a week to affect my IB will this happen on my changeover to ESA. if placed in WRAG after a year?


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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    from the dot gov site
    If you receive contributionicon-based Employment and Support Allowance and have a gross pension income of more than 85 a week, the amount of benefit payable will be reduced by half of the excess.
    The excess is the difference between 85 and the actual pension income. For example, for a pension income of 100, the excess is 15. The amount of Employment and Support Allowance payable is reduced by half of that, which is 7.50.
    If you receive income-related Employment and Support Allowance, any pension income you have will be taken into account, regardless of the amount.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    I know its a pain, on IS you have to supply proof of pension every April even if there is no change...

    the rules quoted for Pensions over 85 are for new claimants to ESA
    and not for the OP

    and yes you are different because you made your claim in 2007 and if you are put in the WRAG group after 12 months the above rule would apply

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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    thanks for the clarification mikey....


  11. #11
    Basic Account Holder sunnysideup Novitiate

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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    Hi I found this through Googling, as I am having trouble finding details about being transferred from IB to ESA. I have an OCCP and the job centre have deducted part of my pension quoting that any income is not disregarded. I have spoken to several different people and been told the same thing. I have received IB since before 2001.

    Is there anything I can quote to them? Getting very frustrated and just want to know what is correct.


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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    they are correct the rules have changed....depending on what income you have coming in...eg if you have a partner etc....my pension is 35.00 pound per week and as my wife still gets IB my entitlement to esa cont...is zilch....we are entitled to the grand sum of 23.00 pound on IS and the same on JSA....however I do seem to remember something about 2001 and IB and occ pensions...however, cant remember where I read it...will see if I can find it for you...otherwise you are going to have to wait until someone from site team comes along


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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    Between October 2010 and Spring 2014 customers who receive Incapacity Benefit, Severe Disablement Allowance and Income Support paid on the grounds of illness or disability will be assessed for Employment and Support Allowance.

    We will write to customers when their benefit becomes due for reassessment to tell them about the changes. We will also phone them to answer any questions they may have and find out if they need extra help. They do not need to contact us before they receive this letter.

    Customers will then be sent a medical questionnaire to complete and return and this will be used to decide if they need to attend a Work Capability Assessment. It is important that customers provide as much detail as possible when completing the questionnaire as this will be used to help decide if the customer is entitled to Employment and Support Allowance (ESA).
    The excess is the difference between 85 and the actual pension income. For example, for a pension income of 100, the excess is 15. The amount of Employment and Support Allowance payable is reduced by half of that, which is 7.50.

    If you receive income-related Employment and Support Allowance, any pension income you have will be taken into account, regardless of the amount.

    sorry this is all i can find
    source
    :www.dwp.gov.uk/advis...


  14. #14
    Basic Account Holder sunnysideup Novitiate

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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    Thanks for your posts; appreciated.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnysideup View Post
    Hi I found this through Googling, as I am having trouble finding details about being transferred from IB to ESA. I have an OCCP and the job centre have deducted part of my pension quoting that any income is not disregarded. I have spoken to several different people and been told the same thing. I have received IB since before 2001.

    Is there anything I can quote to them? Getting very frustrated and just want to know what is correct.
    If you claimed before April 2001 then your pension will be disregarded on ESA.
    You should receive the same ESA as your current rate of IB, if you pass the medical of course
    Pensions prior to conversion
    45465 Certain pension payments or PPF periodic payments, described at DMG 44716 et seq, do not fall to be deducted from ESA(Cont). In addition any pension payment or PPF periodic payment is disregarded1 where

    1. the claimant was entitled to IB immediately before conversion to ESA and
    2. IB was not reduced by a pension or PPF payment2 because
    2.1 the claimant was entitled to DLA care component at the highest rate3 or
    2.2 the claimant qualified for IB under the provisions for those incapacitated in youth because of previous entitlement to SDA4 or
    2.3 the claimant was entitled to IB before 6.4.01 on any day of IfW in a PIW
    which began before and continues after that date5

    rules with the DMG number so you can quote them if needed.


  16. #16
    Basic Account Holder sunnysideup Novitiate

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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    Thanks I appreciate your reply. I am so frustrated with speaking to people in the job centre who have absolutely no idea about this. I appreciate they have a lot to learn, but not one has said they will look in to it, just asking me who told me it was disregarded.


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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    as usual mike a mine of information...i did have hunt around the net for poster but couldnt find info....how come jobcentre staff do not know about this?


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEY DABODEE View Post
    If you claimed before April 2001 then your pension will be disregarded on ESA.
    You should receive the same ESA as your current rate of IB, if you pass the medical of course
    Pensions prior to conversion
    45465 Certain pension payments or PPF periodic payments, described at DMG 44716 et seq, do not fall to be deducted from ESA(Cont). In addition any pension payment or PPF periodic payment is disregarded1 where

    1. the claimant was entitled to IB immediately before conversion to ESA and
    2. IB was not reduced by a pension or PPF payment2 because
    2.1 the claimant was entitled to DLA care component at the highest rate3 or
    2.2 the claimant qualified for IB under the provisions for those incapacitated in youth because of previous entitlement to SDA4 or
    2.3 the claimant was entitled to IB before 6.4.01 on any day of IfW in a PIW
    which began before and continues after that date5

    rules with the DMG number so you can quote them if needed.
    Hi Mikey.Can you repost that number and site when you got that information.Thanks.
    I was on IB since Sept 2001 and DLA from Aug 2004.High care rate.Low mobility rate plus I was pensioned off from work.And because of the high rate of care DLA I was told that pension is ignored by both IB and DLA.Pension and IB were taxable. From 2005 I was told not to call to inform of pension as it was ignored by DLA and IB due to high care conponent .

    Now have been told that IB is ESA support group and contributionicon based. Next thing they write and say.....your pension is due to go up soon and please tell us what it is and the rate they quoted me is the time they told me not to call in about it anymore which was 2005 !

    So thats one problem.They seem to half half the information but not the bit where they told me not to call with updates!
    Then I ring them up asking about the DLA and its effect on ESA and pensions.Some say yes that rule applies and some have never heard of it .Its scary because they said that i don't need to give updates from 2005 as DLA ignores it for IB yet ESA are going on dated information from IB but saying were are ESA and all new.
    Somebody please help .

    I checked Child Poverty site
    Lawcentres
    Welfarerights
    Disability rights etc and they all say the same:

    That if you are on the high rate of DLA and IB then your op is ignored.And if you move onto ESA contributionicon based then you are still protected.

    But if you speak to them.....they have no clue so how do you convince them that it still applies and also that I submitted op while they asked and before being on DLA high care rate and then they told me not to send sick notes or pension updates as it did not apply !

    I am sick with worry and I need desperate help.
    Thank you


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    This is from Focus on disability:-In relation to IB and ESA.


    If you have a personal pension

    For new claims, half of your occupational or personal pension(s) above 85 is to be deducted from your incapacity benefit. For example, if you have a weekly occupational pension of 95 then your incapacity benefit will be reduced by 5 a week. It is intended that permanent health insurance payments arranged through your employer will also be taken into account after your employment has ended.
    The government has said you will be exempt if:
    You already get incapacity benefit at the time the rules change - see below;
    Your claim links back to an earlier incapacity benefit award that ended before the rules changed (contact the Benefits Agency to learn about the special linking rules for work and training;
    You get disability living allowance higher rate care component;
    The pension payments are in connection with the death of a member of the scheme.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Incapacity Benefit & Occupational Pension

    From the child action poverty group:-

    Those on IB and SDA who claimed before 6 April 2001 or are entitled to the highest rate care component of disability living allowance will continue to have any occupational pension fully disregarded on transfer to contributory ESA, unlike other ESA claimants who have 50 per cent of any occupational pension over 85 a week deducted from their entitlement.


    So saying the same thing as Mikey but if you call them then its they have no clue.



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