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I just had a letter from my local Trading Standards. They're asking me to go in with all letters and documents sent by the company. I shall scan and email. If by the company they mean gym then I have no corrospondence from the Gym. They also ask for the "membership offer I responded to" which I don't have as it was a TV ad and then I telephoned them. Will send what I have. I reckon what happened is when I called the person on the other end asked for my details. They either tapped them into a database or perhaps directly into the website itself. This would have the effect of creating a membership. All very convenient but not proper at all. This is perhaps why they claim I joined online.

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Hi Steve,

 

Let us know what happens with TS and with the OFT.

 

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Had the longish message below from trading standards.

 

Thank you for your reply and copies of the letters sent to you by the companies.

 

Unfortunately there would be a contract as you agree that you contacted the gym, discussed membership and paid an initial fee with a debit card and gave enough bank details for a direct debit to be set up. In English law there are very few contracts which must be in writing and this is not such a contract. Contacts can be made verbally and also by actions without discussing the matter such as when you purchase goods in a supermarket. There are implied terms in every contract but a company cannot rely on any express terms which have not been mentioned in the discussions of the contract. In your case it will be one person’s word against the others regarding the agreement made between the parties. You may be able to obtain a transcript of the TV advertisement if you contact the channel it was shown on and this may help in any defence if a claim is made in the County Court by the company.

The Distance Selling Regulations have specific rules for services and can be exempted from having to give cancellation rights. Where a service begins immediately and the company tell you it is not subject to cancellation the contract is not subject to the cancellation rights provisions, again it will be your word against theirs as to what was said at the time of the telephone call. The contract would be deemed to start immediately if you were able to visit the gym at any time, whether you did so or not. The Distance Selling Regulations also state that if cancellation rights are not given you have a period of three months and seven working days from entry to the contract to cancel and that the cancellation must be in writing or another durable form such as email, as this time has passed you would not be able to rely on The Distance Selling Regulations even if you could prove that the company did not inform you that no cancellation was possible.

It is important that you recall the full details of the discussion held with the gym when the contract was formed as this will form the basis of your defence. You need to write to CRS with details of the terms discussed such as whether the membership was for a certain period of time or the details of the introductory offer in the TV advert, stress no additional terms were discussed by the company and nothing was sent to you by post. You should give an explanation as to why bank details were given such as if it was for a specific number of months of membership. Also state that you would defend any action taken in the County Court. Keep a copy of the letter and send by recorded delivery.

If the company do take action in the County Court there would be an issuing fee of £35 and if a defence is submitted a pre-trial assessment and hearing fee of £25 which they would automatically be awarded if successful in their claim along with the amount awarded for the claim by the District Judge. If the company lost their claim no monies would be payable by you but as it would be heard on the small claims track of the County Court you would not be able to claim costs.

It may also be worth checking with the Post Office to see if there were any problems with post between West Sussex and here in the time period Harlands were sending mail to you or if there was a problem in your area which could answer why so many letters went astray.

If the company does issue a claim in the County Court and you decide to defend it you can call into the office here in the Central Library for help with the procedure and paperwork in defending such a claim.

 

Yours sincerely

Miss B Dix

Senior Consumer Adviser

 

Trading Standards

Consumer Advice Centre

Central Library

Church Road

Stockton on Tees

TS18 1TU

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Hi Steve,

 

Wait and see how the OFT respond.

 

It may be worth looking at CPUTR as well to see if mis-selling took place on the basis of lack of info or wrong info at point of sale.

 

:-)

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Check youtube for the advert in question.

If in doubt, contact a qualified insured legal professional (or my wife... she knows EVERYTHING)

 

Or send a cheque or postal order payable to Reclaim the Right Ltd.

to

923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE

 

 

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Hi Steve,

 

Although the TS reply looks to be well-considered and well set out, I'm certainly not saying I agree with it all.

 

:wink:

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No I'm not saying you do. I was just musing on various degrees of interpretation that could be applied. Whilst the TS seems cut and dried the're no certainty in my mind that there is a contract in place that obliges me to remain their customer for 12 months.

 

We have now just signed up with the old Gym we used to go to. More expensive but probably worth it. I know I'm obliged to stay with them for 3 months. I signed a contract, the T&C's, a health disclaimer and a Direct Debit mandate - now that's a contract.

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Just go the following text from the Gym

 

Your account will be handed over to a door step debt collection agency if arrears are not cleared today - call 01642915151 to avoid this action

 

I see this nothing short of intimidation. How best might this be handled. It is also a duplication of the action from CRS

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Hi Steve,

 

I would just ignore this completely.

 

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If in doubt, contact a qualified insured legal professional (or my wife... she knows EVERYTHING)

 

Or send a cheque or postal order payable to Reclaim the Right Ltd.

to

923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE

 

 

Click here if you fancy an email address that shows you mean business! (only £6 and that will really help CAG)

 

If you can't donate, please use the Internet Search boxes on the CAG pages - these will generate a small but regular income for the site

 

Please also consider using the

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Hi Steve,

 

The OFT response is what we'd expect. The complaint against Harlands and CRS will be added to what I believe is a growing pile but they will not involve themselves in your personal dispute.

 

I didn't answer your Q in post #39 above - I would ignore the threat completely. The advice given in the Doorstep Call Article is more about informing consumers that any doorstep caller (apart from a court appointed officer) has no powers or authority and you should simply tell them to leave, without any further discussion.

 

I would ignore further demands from Harlands and/or CRS for the time being, just as you said you would in your letter to them.

 

What may have worked against you is time, as TS pointed out in their letter. You had a right to cancel within 3 month and 7 working days according to them but this time has passed. I note that little was said in your posts about precise dates.

 

However, if Harlands/CRS want to get anywhere with this, they'd have to take court action. This is extremely rare and, if they do it, it is up to them to prove their case against you.

 

I doubt they'll invest the time and money. But if they do, we'll do our best to assist you in defending.

 

:wink:

Edited by slick132
typo

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sorry - I meant to respond to your comment about time but then forgotten as it's gone quiet this end. During my initial conversation with xcercise 4 less they were not yet open. When they opened my wife visited and was dissatisfied and verbally stated that she was cancelling the membership. These events occurred within 3 months of each other. It is very hard to cancel something that does not exist. We had no membership agreement, no membership number, no membership card, nothing to signify membership. The only existing object was the direct debit which she cancelled. Furthermore if they are claiming I made a verbal contract with them over the phone how could I have made such a binding contract on behalf of my wife who was not present in the phone call.

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I just had a strange letter from CRS:

 

Further to the above matter, please confirm if this matter has been passed to the OFT and Trading Standards, as to date we have not received and correspondence from them, regarding the above matter.

 

We look forward to hearing from you, within 10 days from the date of this letter

Above is verbatim including odd punctuation and use of the word "matter" 3 times in one sentence.

 

How should I respond to this? I can think of four possible choices:

 

  1. Just ignore them completely as I've said I would.
  2. Respond with the following: "I can confirm that I have made complaints to the OFT and Trading standards about the conduct of CRS, Harlands and Xcercise 4 Less"
  3. Respond with the following: "I can confirm that I have made complaints to the OFT and Trading standards about the conduct of CRS, Harlands and Xcercise 4 Less. I have had responses from both parties"
  4. Respond with the following: "I can confirm that I have made complaints to the OFT and Trading standards about the conduct of CRS, Harlands and Xcercise 4 Less. I have had responses from both parties. In essence their responses were: Trading Standards say they will assist in preparing my defence should the matter come to court and OFT say that the will add my complaint to their file on CRS/Harlands. They would not divulge to me what action they would take but you may be hearing from them soon "

 

I was tempted to say that the contents of my private correspondence are just that, private but found no easy or useful way to say it. However I find the CRS stance a little odd and there may be an opportunity to yank their tail a little. I could exaggerate the OFT and T.S. responses a little to unsettle and cause CRS/Harlands concern, a tactic they're more used to dishing out than receiving.

Edited by Steve_T
typo
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Hi Steve,

 

Our forums are open for all to read so it may be that CRS already know how TS and the OFT have responded to your complaints.

 

I would write back to CRS and say :-

 

Complaints were made by me to both the OFT and to Trading Standards about your handling of the dispute between us.

 

It is, of course, entirely up to them to decide how and when to contact you.

 

As far as I am concerned, neither my wife nor I owe you any monies. If you still believe we do, then you are free to issue court action which we will vigorously defend.

 

Could you let us know :-

 

1. When you believe the gym opened for business.

 

2. Did they notify you of this and, if so, when ?

 

3. When did your wife contacted them to ask about m/ship cards, and then cancel the m/ships.

 

I see what TS are saying about the existence of contracts without documents or agreements.

 

However, if the gym intended your m/ships to be governed by certain T&C, including those which said you were committed to 12 months fees, then I believe they had a duty to provide you with this information.

 

Let us have your answers to my Q's above.

 

:-D

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Hi Steve,

 

Our forums are open for all to read so it may be that CRS already know how TS and the OFT have responded to your complaints.

 

:-D

 

A little disturbing to imagine that could be happening but then of course it is a public forum

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We've seen cases where a bank's solicitors have produced screen shots as evidence in court. Hence the need to be honest in all dealings with "the other side", even when they are not honest or decent themselves.

 

Can we have answers to my Q's above please.

 

:-D

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I will provide answers but I need to search back in my memory bank. For me this was a casual thing. I did not envisage I was entering into any kind of long term agreement as this was never verbalised, requested nor agreed. I will put two and two together with my wife and remember the timeline.

Edited by Steve_T
clarity
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  • 3 weeks later...

I went on holiday and never did reply CRS's question about Trading Standards and OFT. So effectively I've ignored them as I said I would. Should I reply with the suggested text even at this late stage or not. Yesterday I had another text from the gym saying they were definitely sending a doorstep caller. I did not respond to this either. Surely on top of CRS this constitutes harassment. Should I write to them or simply ignore and see if it happens. I've still not got the dates that you asked for but still looking into it

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Hi Steve,

 

If their contact has dwindled to a text now and then, I'd ignore them rather than stir them into further exchanges which will not change their opinions anyway.

 

If they continue to pester you on an increasing level, let us know and we'll review the matter.

 

:-)

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I just had a call from CRS. Took me a little by surprise. They said they were chasing a response to their question about the OFT and Trading Standards so I'll send the letter recommended earlier. Now idea why they're so keen on this aspect. I was pretty non committal and bland on the phone. No idea if there was something I should have said. No I go figure how to block a caller on my mobile. Should I add a note to the letter instructing them not to call me as I don't want to be hassled

 

[edit to add] got home to find they left a message on my machine also

Edited by Steve_T
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