Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)

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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    Hi Steve,

    The OFT response is what we'd expect. The complaint against Harlands and CRS will be added to what I believe is a growing pile but they will not involve themselves in your personal dispute.

    I didn't answer your Q in post #39 above - I would ignore the threat completely. The advice given in the Doorstep Call Article is more about informing consumers that any doorstep caller (apart from a court appointed officer) has no powers or authority and you should simply tell them to leave, without any further discussion.

    I would ignore further demands from Harlands and/or CRS for the time being, just as you said you would in your letter to them.

    What may have worked against you is time, as TS pointed out in their letter. You had a right to cancel within 3 month and 7 working days according to them but this time has passed. I note that little was said in your posts about precise dates.

    However, if Harlands/CRS want to get anywhere with this, they'd have to take court action. This is extremely rare and, if they do it, it is up to them to prove their case against you.

    I doubt they'll invest the time and money. But if they do, we'll do our best to assist you in defending.



    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

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  2. #42
    Basic Account Holder Steve_T Novitiate

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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    Sorry - I meant to respond to your comment about time but then forgotten as it's gone quiet this end. During my initial conversation with xcercise 4 less they were not yet open. When they opened my wife visited and was dissatisfied and verbally stated that she was cancelling the membership. These events occurred within 3 months of each other. It is very hard to cancel something that does not exist. We had no membership agreement, no membership number, no membership card, nothing to signify membership. The only existing object was the direct debiticon which she cancelled. Furthermore if they are claiming I made a verbal contract with them over the phone how could I have made such a binding contract on behalf of my wife who was not present in the phone callicon.


  3. #43
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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    I just had a strange letter from CRS:

    Further to the above matter, please confirm if this matter has been passed to the OFT and Trading Standards, as to date we have not received and correspondence from them, regarding the above matter.

    We look forward to hearing from you, within 10 days from the date of this letter
    Above is verbatim including odd punctuation and use of the word "matter" 3 times in one sentence.

    How should I respond to this? I can think of four possible choices:
    1. Just ignore them completely as I've said I would.
    2. Respond with the following: "I can confirm that I have made complaints to the OFT and Trading standards about the conduct of CRS, Harlands and Xcercise 4 Less"
    3. Respond with the following: "I can confirm that I have made complaints to the OFT and Trading standards about the conduct of CRS, Harlands and Xcercise 4 Less. I have had responses from both parties"
    4. Respond with the following: "I can confirm that I have made complaints to the OFT and Trading standards about the conduct of CRS, Harlands and Xcercise 4 Less. I have had responses from both parties. In essence their responses were: Trading Standards say they will assist in preparing my defence should the matter come to court and OFT say that the will add my complaint to their file on CRS/Harlands. They would not divulge to me what action they would take but you may be hearing from them soon "

    I was tempted to say that the contents of my private correspondence are just that, private but found no easy or useful way to say it. However I find the CRS stance a little odd and there may be an opportunity to yank their tail a little. I could exaggerate the OFT and T.S. responses a little to unsettle and cause CRS/Harlands concern, a tactic they're more used to dishing out than receiving.

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  4. #44
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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    Hi Steve,

    Our forums are open for all to read so it may be that CRS already know how TS and the OFT have responded to your complaints.

    I would write back to CRS and say :-

    Complaints were made by me to both the OFT and to Trading Standards about your handling of the dispute between us.

    It is, of course, entirely up to them to decide how and when to contact you.

    As far as I am concerned, neither my wife nor I owe you any monies. If you still believe we do, then you are free to issue court action which we will vigorously defend.


    Could you let us know :-

    1. When you believe the gymicon opened for business.

    2. Did they notify you of this and, if so, when ?

    3. When did your wife contacted them to ask about m/ship cards, and then cancel the m/ships.

    I see what TS are saying about the existence of contracts without documents or agreements.

    However, if the gymicon intended your m/ships to be governed by certain T&C, including those which said you were committed to 12 months fees, then I believe they had a duty to provide you with this information.

    Let us have your answers to my Q's above.



    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

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  5. #45
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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    Quote Originally Posted by slick132 View Post
    Hi Steve,

    Our forums are open for all to read so it may be that CRS already know how TS and the OFT have responded to your complaints.

    A little disturbing to imagine that could be happening but then of course it is a public forum


  6. #46
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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    We've seen cases where a bank's solicitors have produced screen shots as evidence in court. Hence the need to be honest in all dealings with "the other side", even when they are not honest or decent themselves.

    Can we have answers to my Q's above please.



    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

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  7. #47
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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    I will provide answers but I need to search back in my memory bank. For me this was a casual thing. I did not envisage I was entering into any kind of long term agreement as this was never verbalised, requested nor agreed. I will put two and two together with my wife and remember the timeline.

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  8. #48
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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    I went on holidayicon and never did reply CRS's question about Trading Standards and OFT. So effectively I've ignored them as I said I would. Should I reply with the suggested text even at this late stage or not. Yesterday I had another text from the gymicon saying they were definitely sending a doorstep caller. I did not respond to this either. Surely on top of CRS this constitutes harassment. Should I write to them or simply ignore and see if it happens. I've still not got the dates that you asked for but still looking into it


  9. #49
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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    Hi Steve,

    If their contact has dwindled to a text now and then, I'd ignore them rather than stir them into further exchanges which will not change their opinions anyway.

    If they continue to pester you on an increasing level, let us know and we'll review the matter.



    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

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  10. #50
    Basic Account Holder Steve_T Novitiate

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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    I just had a call from CRS. Took me a little by surprise. They said they were chasing a response to their question about the OFT and Trading Standards so I'll send the letter recommended earlier. Now idea why they're so keen on this aspect. I was pretty non committal and bland on the phone. No idea if there was something I should have said. No I go figure how to block a caller on my mobile. Should I add a note to the letter instructing them not to call me as I don't want to be hassled

    [edit to add] got home to find they left a message on my machine also

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  11. #51
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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    You can add a paragraph to your letter saying:-

    Please note that I will only deal with this matter in writing, so I have evidence of all exchanges if this is needed for court proceedings. Accordingly, I do not expect you to telephone me any more and please put anything you have to say in writing.

    Also, as the matter is in clear dispute, any further phone callsicon received from you will be treated as harassment and will be reported to the authorities as necessary.


    To be on the safe side, can you please find the missing info that I requested earlier, so you have it available if it's needed.



    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

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  12. #52
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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    We've now worked out some key dates.

    • I called the gymicon on Oct 9th, decided to give it a try and set up a direct debiticon. The gymicon was not yet open, they said first direct debit would go out a month after opening (SEE NOTE 1)
    • The First Payment went out 28th November (SEE NOTE 2)
    • My wife visited the Gym on December 5th (SEE NOTE 3)
    • We cancelled the direct debit December 6th
    NOTE 1
    • This was on the phone, I did not visit the Gym or their website
    • I believed I was setting up a payment simply to pay for membership
    • No mention was made of 12 months minimum membership
    • I received no terms and conditions and none were mentioned
    • I signed nothing and no membership agreement was received
    NOTE 2 - we were unaware the Gym had opened - no notification was received

    NOTE 3
    • my wife asked to be shown around the gym - response " we don't do that"
    • my wife asked about an induction to the gym - response " we don't do that"
    • my wife asked about an membership cards - response " we don't do that"
    • my wife said, "I don't think this is for us, I'm cancelling our membership" - response - shrug of shoulders
    we cancelled the direct debit the next day (Dec 6th) . She recalls now - it was her birthday.

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  13. #53
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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    Thanks for the extra info. It may be useful if they persist.

    If you've now sent the letter, let us know when they reply.



    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

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  14. #54
    Basic Account Holder Steve_T Novitiate

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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    Just heard form CRS demanding 212.33 X 2 ( Me and my wife). They say they have not received any correspondence from the OFT but I find hard to understand the relevance of this. As I have said all along I signed nothing, received no copy of TOC's and none were mentioned to me.


  15. #55
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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    Hi Steve,

    Why would CRS receive anything from the OFT. Were they expecting to get a letter from the OFT saying CRS are acting correctly or not ?

    That's not how the OFT operate but, if CRS don't know this, that is their problem.

    Ignore the demands and ignore CRS. They're just hoping to strike lucky by being persistent but I don't think they have a leg to stand on.



    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

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  16. #56
    Basic Account Holder Steve_T Novitiate

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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    I know the OFT thing is odd. They asked if I had a reply from the OFT and I said that I had and that the letter was addressed to me and the contents were mine to read.


  17. #57
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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_T View Post
    I know the OFT thing is odd. They asked if I had a reply from the OFT and I said that I had and that the letter was addressed to me and the contents were mine to read.
    I reckon they're hoping that :-

    1. You were bluffing and didn't contact the OFT at all.

    2. Because the OFT have not involved themselves in your PERSONAL case, Harlands/CRS want to read this as exonerating their actions and/or views.



    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

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  18. #58
    Basic Account Holder Steve_T Novitiate

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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    I'm not bluffing - I did write to the OFT and I did get a response.

    CRS also said in the letter I refer to now ,

    "We enclose a copy of the forum posted on the internet, which I am sure you will find interesting, which we have placed on our file for future reference."

    This refers to my post #5 in this thread concerning the email (that DID mention a 12 month agreement) this went to spam unnoticed, until later.

    As far as I'm concerned, it changes nothing ! (including the fact that CRS have very poor writing skills)

    Slick132 is already aware of this and agrees.


  19. #59
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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    Hi Steve and thanks for updating further.

    As regards their GREAT DISCOVERY, folk should remember that our forum is open for all to read and we should always bear that in mind when posting.

    I'd reply to their letter briefly saying:-

    I refer to your letter of xxdate.

    I fail to see the significance of what you have read on my CAGicon thread. Feel free to keep the "interesting" post and use it however you wish. It changes nothing.

    I also fail to understand why you think it relevant that you've not heard from the OFT. They don't involve themselves in personal cases but my complaint will be added to their, no doubt, growing pile of complaints about Harlands and CRS.

    I have nothing further to add to what has already been said and I will pay nothing further to the gymicon, Harlands or CRS.


    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

    If I've been helpful, please click my scales.
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  20. #60
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    Default Re: Xcercise for less

    Reply

    dear sir,
    i refer to your letters of 11th feb 2013. Please be informed that i am responding both to the letter sent to me and the one sent to my wife.

    i fail to see the significance of what you have read on an internet forum thread. Feel free to keep the "interesting" post and use it however you wish. It changes nothing.

    I also fail to understand why you think it relevant that you've not heard from the oft. They don't involve themselves in personal cases but my complaint will be added to their, no doubt, growing pile of complaints about harlands and crs. I have their response to my complaint on file for future reference

    i have nothing further to add to what has already been said and i will pay nothing further to the gymicon, harlands or crs.




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