Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder Deadwood Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    74

    Default Use of Police by Bailiffs/HCEO Companies

    I believe that use of the police by enforcement agents should be closely regulated. The Police are being used as a tool to intimidate debtors into paying rather than to prevent a "Breach of the Peace". I think they are being called routinely even when there hasn't been a prior heated "discussion" and the debtor has no previous history. The Police are being used to generate profits for these corrupt companies.


  2. #2
    Basic Account Holder holt007 Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: Use of Police by Bailiffs/HCEO Companies

    absolutely agree with your post above.


  3. #3
    Platinum Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a donation
    brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Nov 2009
    I am in
    I am on the Dark Side Of The Moon
    Posts
    6,620

    Default Re: Use of Police by Bailiffs/HCEO Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadwood View Post
    I believe that use of the police by enforcement agents should be closely regulated. The Police are being used as a tool to intimidate debtors into paying rather than to prevent a "Breach of the Peace". I think they are being called routinely even when there hasn't been a prior heated "discussion" and the debtor has no previous history. The Police are being used to generate profits for these corrupt companies.
    The problem that needs to be addressed is that the police are unaware, or inadequately trained of the law in this area, and are under the mistaken impression that they are mainly on the same side as the bailiff, so side with him, even in the face of the bailiffs often blatant misuse of his powers, for which HE should actually be the one arrested.

    The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  4. #4
    Classic Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a contribution
    old bill Informative old bill Informative old bill Informative old bill Informative old bill Informative old bill's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Mar 2012
    I am in
    Somewhere In The Universe
    Posts
    1,370

    Default Re: Use of Police by Bailiffs/HCEO Companies

    The problem is that police officers receive little or no training in how to deal with bailiffs, even though national guidelines are in existence. Another problem is that ACPO regard bailiff matter as "civil matters". Whether this has got something to do with their relationship with the trade associations bailiff and HCEO companies belong to needs to be investigated. The News International scandal has highlighted the dangers of inappropriate relationships between the police and commercial interests.

    Any training police are given in dealing with bailiffs should include insisting on seeing the court warrant and the bailiff or HCEO's certificate. Any claims by bailiffs that police officers are required to help them gain entry to a debtor's home should be dealt with as a potential attempt to incite disaffection and be dealt with as such. Where a bailiff has made threats, either by letter, or by telephone or in person, these should be dealt with under relevant legislation, i.e. Malicious Communications Act 1988, Public Order Act 1986, Communications Act 2003. Although, under normal circumstances, arrest is the very last resort, in cases such as these, it should be a case of one and only warning before arrest. Where a debtor is classed as vulnerable, this should be regarded as aggravating factors in deciding whether or not to arrest a bailiff after giving them a warning or arresting them without a warning.

    The police have been mislead by the civil enforcement iindustry and there will be a payback or, more accurately, a backlash and when it comes, bailiff and HCEO companies will not be prepared for it. I can see police officers coming down hard on bailiffs and HCEOs who cross the line.


  5. #5
    Platinum Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a donation
    brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Nov 2009
    I am in
    I am on the Dark Side Of The Moon
    Posts
    6,620

    Default Re: Use of Police by Bailiffs/HCEO Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by old bill View Post
    The problem is that police officers receive little or no training in how to deal with bailiffs, even though national guidelines are in existence. Another problem is that ACPO regard bailiff matter as "civil matters". Whether this has got something to do with their relationship with the trade associations bailiff and HCEO companies belong to needs to be investigated. The News International scandal has highlighted the dangers of inappropriate relationships between the police and commercial interests.

    Any training police are given in dealing with bailiffs should include insisting on seeing the court warrant and the bailiff or HCEO's certificate. Any claims by bailiffs that police officers are required to help them gain entry to a debtor's home should be dealt with as a potential attempt to incite disaffection and be dealt with as such. Where a bailiff has made threats, either by letter, or by telephone or in person, these should be dealt with under relevant legislation, i.e. Malicious Communications Act 1988, Public Order Act 1986, Communications Act 2003. Although, under normal circumstances, arrest is the very last resort, in cases such as these, it should be a case of one and only warning before arrest. Where a debtor is classed as vulnerable, this should be regarded as aggravating factors in deciding whether or not to arrest a bailiff after giving them a warning or arresting them without a warning.

    The police have been mislead by the civil enforcement iindustry and there will be a payback or, more accurately, a backlash and when it comes, bailiff and HCEO companies will not be prepared for it. I can see police officers coming down hard on bailiffs and HCEOs who cross the line.
    ACPO should itself be investigated, as it is a for profit company, as most police forces now are as they are all registered as corporations on Dunn & Bradstreet, Far from being a union for Chief police officers as it is portrayed, it has a malign and corrosive influence to the detriment of police impartiality. and helps to politicise the police to the detriment of the public.

    The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder Deadwood Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: Use of Police by Bailiffs/HCEO Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by old bill View Post
    .........Any training police are given in dealing with bailiffs should include insisting on seeing the court warrant and the bailiff or HCEO's certificate.........
    +1

    As I've said before, HCEO's are sending allsorts to enforce, the registered HCEO should be present in person. It's very wrong that HCEO companies are sending "security" industry people to enforce, There are a fair number with criminal connections and the debtor may find himself being extorted or burgled shortly after being visited.

    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  7. #7
    Classic Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a contribution
    old bill Informative old bill Informative old bill Informative old bill Informative old bill Informative old bill's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Mar 2012
    I am in
    Somewhere In The Universe
    Posts
    1,370

    Default Re: Use of Police by Bailiffs/HCEO Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by brassnecked View Post
    ACPO should itself be investigated, as it is a for profit company, as most police forces now are as they are all registered as corporations on Dunn & Bradstreet, Far from being a union for Chief police officers as it is portrayed, it has a malign and corrosive influence to the detriment of police impartiality. and helps to politicise the police to the detriment of the public.
    I totally agree with you. In the light of the News International scandal, I can see ACPO's relationships with the trade associations in the civil enforcement and private security industries putting put under the microscope. You are absolutely right about the corrosive influence on police impartiality - ACPO are the ones promoting the "It's a civil matter" line with regard to bailiff misconduct. You are also right about the politicisation of the police -that's why officers are leaving in droves. Morale is at rock-bottom.


  8. #8
    Platinum Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a donation
    brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked Highly informative brassnecked's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Nov 2009
    I am in
    I am on the Dark Side Of The Moon
    Posts
    6,620

    Default Re: Use of Police by Bailiffs/HCEO Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by old bill View Post
    I totally agree with you. In the light of the News International scandal, I can see ACPO's relationships with the trade associations in the civil enforcement and private security industries putting put under the microscope. You are absolutely right about the corrosive influence on police impartiality - ACPO are the ones promoting the "It's a civil matter" line with regard to bailiff misconduct. You are also right about the politicisation of the police -that's why officers are leaving in droves. Morale is at rock-bottom.
    That is a great pity, as a lot of the common sense , and inherent fairness that was typical of the police of old, where a quiet word, and a ticking off did more good than a prosecution, has been lost to a new cadre of apparatchiks who chase targets to the detriment of the public they purport to serve.

    The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  9. #9
    Basic Account Holder Deadwood Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: Use of Police by Bailiffs/HCEO Companies

    There is a provision in the Courts Act 2003 directing the Police to assist HCEO's, well I didn't know that.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...-paragraph-4-4

    This reinforces my comments about the High Court being the Queen's Court and The Police being sworn to the Crown.


  10. #10
    Basic Account Holder Zaniwhoop Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Use of Police by Bailiffs/HCEO Companies

    Only for fairly specific purposes according to paragraph 3, by the looks of it.

    "Modern 'currency' is known as 'fiat money': it is artificially created, has no value in itself and the basis for use in exchange is typically a government edict." Paul Morran, Information Rights Unit of Her Majesty's Treasury.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  11. #11
    Classic Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a contribution
    old bill Informative old bill Informative old bill Informative old bill Informative old bill Informative old bill's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Mar 2012
    I am in
    Somewhere In The Universe
    Posts
    1,370

    Default Re: Use of Police by Bailiffs/HCEO Companies

    Zaniwhoop - I am looking into what assistance the police are actually allowed to provide to HCEOs. Once I have established exactly what assistance the police are required to provide, I will post it up.

    Deadwood - I will look into what you have posted about the situation of HCEOs using what appears to be crims and post up my findings.



Viewing CAG on a small screen? Switch to the mobile version of the site

Reclaim the Right Ltd. - reg.05783665 in the UK reg. office:- 923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE