HiI would greatly appreciate any advice that people could give on the following.

My girlfriend was shopping in TK Maxx yesterday. She was in the shop for around an hour. She didn't get a basket when she went in, but ended up carrying several things in her hands that she wished to purchase. These included a pair of black tights which were hanging loose on a rail, rather than being in a packet. Although they were security tagged, the price was missing. She intended to query the price when she got to the till.

When she got to the till she had the items to purchase in her right hand, and the tights & her own gloves in her left hand. As she needed a free hand to get her purse out she put the contents of her left hand into a bag full of shopping from a previous store. Unfortunately she completely forgot that as well as her own gloves, the tights were there too.

After paying for her shopping (£50) she left the shop, only for the alarms to sound. She thought the staff must have forgotten to remove a security tag, so she turned around & re-entered the shop and was approached by a security guard who asked to see her shopping & reciept.

It was then as they looked into her bags that she realised about the tights. She offered to pay for them but the guard refused.

She was taken to an office where she was asked for her name & address which she gave. She was then asked to sign a form with the words "If you sign this you will be free to leave without the police being involved". She refused to sign it, at which point the security guard became aggressive and said that he had been watching her, and had seen her remove the tights from their packet (not true) and also put other items into her bag (not true).

As she didn't sign anything, the police were called. They explained to her that the form the shop wanted her to sign was basically an admission of guilt, which would have resulted in her recieving a bill from the retail recovery scheme (I see from other posts her that she would not have been obliged to pay this anyway).

The police then said that as they were involved, she could accept a caution and £80 fine from them, which would be an admission of guilt. As she did not feel that she was guilty of theft she refused to do this. She was then arrested, put in the back of a police van, and taken to the town centre police station. There she was finger printed, a DNA sample was taken from her mouth, she was tested for drugs, and then locked up in a cell for 3 hours. Whlst she was in the cell, the police used her keys to visit our home and carry out a search for stolen goods. Needless to say nothing was found.

She has now been released on police bail, and has to return to the police station in 3 weeks time.

Does anyone know what is likely to happen when she returns to the police station. Is she likely to be charged? Or is the likelyhood that the matter will be dropped? Will the fact that she doesn't have any previous convictions be relevant?.

Will a conviction affect her job? She works for the public sector in a security sensitive position.

The value of the tights she is alleged to have stolen is £3.99.

Unfortunately i am overseas with work at the moment, so she's at home on her own & very upset about what has happened.

Very grateful for any advice.

Thanks

One of the major problems here is that once the Police became involved, and especially once an arrest took place this will have created an entry on the Police National Computer. Irrespective of whether any case now proceeds, this is quite possibly going to be disclosed if an Enhanced CRB is required, or special security clearance. You say that your girlfriend works in a security sensitive position, but what level of vetting or CRB disclosure is required for this? Does her contract require her to inform the employer of any arrests convictions or cautions?

Isofar as the case itself is concerned, then I strongly suspect that when she reports back to the police station, she will be offered a further opportunity to accept a caution, and if she refuses that then the matter will either be dropped or she will be offered a further chance to accept a caution. It will probably be referred to the CPS for consideration at present, but I very much doubt that a prosecution and trial would be viable for a suspected theft of such low value. In view of the circumstances and the possible impact on employment it would almost certainly be worth taking legal advice.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but you are correct in believing that the best course of action would have been to walk away without the police involvement and just deal with the RLP letters, but having then had the police come in, your girlfriend is going to have to take this all the way to try and prove her innocence. What she was probably offered at the store was a PND and £80 penalty - this does not involve an admission of guilt, but is offered in order to avoid possible prosecution (and saves paperwork!) - although it is still liable to be disclosed on an ECRB, it is not held as a conviction or caution so does not have to be disclosed when asked about convictions or cautions in most cases . A formal Caution does involve an admission of guilt, and can then have more serious consequences for employment or for example when trying to visit the USA or Australia.

Please keep us up to date with developments and feel free to ask if you think that we can help further.

Hi Tees

Welcome to CAG

TK Maxx don't spend a lot of money on packaging and I can believe goods being put back on the shopfloor without packaging, possibly returns from a previous customer. The first thing to do is send TK Maxx a SAR request for the CCTV Images from the store. Read the following:-

http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_the_public/topic_specific_guides/cctv.aspx

The next thing to do is to write a Formal Letter of Complaint, mark it as such. I would explain fully whats happened, include that goods were paid for - £50, send proof, a copy of the receipt, explain that the 'tights' didn't have any packaging or price. That the 'tights' still had a security tag, point out, why would you walk out of the store, when the tag had not been removed. Explain that this is a 'genuine mistake', be honest, tell them that the security guard has embellished, what actually happened. Also explain about the 'aggressive' treatment by the security guard. Explain that if you signed the paperwork they would let you go, if you paid the fine they would let you go. Explain that you were arrested. Explain about the police search.Tell them this has caused you a lot of 'distress' and your looking at taking legal action against TK Maxx.

Send it to:-

Managing Director

TK Maxx

50 Clarendon Road

Watford

WD17 1TX

Some tips:- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1242161/How--write-letter-complaint.html

Send it Recorded.

I also think CAB would be interested in your story.

Sounds a bit like attempted blackmail to me, sign our bits of paper or we will call the police.

Searching the house sounds a bit OTT & an invasion of privacy to me - if your GF was a habitual thief then she would not have walked out with a security tag!!!

This all sounds a bit malicious on the part of TK Max to me. Theft is an intentional act.

I would do as rebel1 says - get the CCTV (act quickly before it is wiped) and start your complaint to the store

If the CCTV has been wiped or they refuse to provide it (make sure that you get all of it, not their edited highlights) and it goes to court, you might be able to use the destruction of evidence in the defense. You might also be able to stop TK Maxx from overwriting any of their tapes from the timescale involved (from entry to exit) by writing to them saying that they should retain that for potential use as evidence in criminal proceedings.

Hi 2Grumpy

Thats what I thought.

Sounds a bit like attempted blackmail to me, sign our bits of paper or we will call the police.

 

Searching the house sounds a bit OTT & an invasion of privacy to me - if your GF was a habitual thief then she would not have walked out with a security tag!!!

 

This all sounds a bit malicious on the part of TK Max to me. Theft is an intentional act.

 

I would do as rebel1 says - get the CCTV (act quickly before it is wiped) and start your complaint to the store

 

If the CCTV has been wiped or they refuse to provide it (make sure that you get all of it, not their edited highlights) and it goes to court, you might be able to use the destruction of evidence in the defense. You might also be able to stop TK Maxx from overwriting any of their tapes from the timescale involved (from entry to exit) by writing to them saying that they should retain that for potential use as evidence in criminal proceedings.

Its policy - all be it incorrectly applied by the store security.

Signing the paperwork (banning notice) isnt an admission of guilt at all. Its signing to say youve got the notice (its self carbonated) and that you understand the contents.

The notice says nothing about a shoplifting, or any offence. It says 'due to an incident in the store on .... (date)' etc

The staff should of simply said 'ok, no worres', and written 'refused to sign' on the signature line.

The policy is that - if someone refuses to admit what they have done, then fine, call the police in, let them (and ultimately a court) decide if they are guilty or not. After all, they are security staff, not judge and jury.

I used to refer as many as possible to the police, as its not my decision to decide guilt. Ive seen them do something, which I believe to be an offence, so I call the police in. Im 100% confident that what Ive seen is right (not risking my job on a false stop), its now up to the court to decide if they believe their story or not, as to how they managed to end up not paying for the goods.

Hi

Firstly, many many thanks to everyone who has responded so far. All very helpful. It's fantastic that such a forum as this exists.

After reading your advice, and also speaking to a distant relation who is a police officer, my girlfriend has made appointments with both the CAB, and also a solicitor. The Police officer advised that they didn't think this matter would go to court, but also that she would never advise anyone to face police questions without a solicitor present. So to be on the safe side we will make sure we have one when we go back to the police station in 3 weeks time.

We will raise the issue of the CCTV & the letter of complaint with the CAB & solicitor and see what they advise.

Sidewinder - her job is a finincial one for, ironically, a neighbouring police force (civilian worker). If she were to end up with a record of any kind it may well spell the end of her career with the police, and i don't know how she would fair applying for financial jobs with a conviction for theft...........So although a shoplifting offence may seem like a small matter, it's something that may end up having a huge impact on our lives, so we are desperate that she is cleared of this.Thanks again for the info so far, would be very grateful to hear any other advice that people may have.

Hi Tee's

It might be an idea to read the CAB report on RLP, the report give examples of retailers/RLP treatment of consumers and why CAB think it's unfair. You should find it in the 'sticky'. The main thing is your 'GF' could be perfectly innocent, but TK Maxx will simply process her in the same fashion as others, don't forget to update the thread.

Hi Tee's

 

It might be an idea to read the CAB report on RLP, the report give examples of retailers/RLP treatment of consumers and why CAB think it's unfair. You should find it in the 'sticky'. The main thing is your 'GF' could be perfectly innocent, but TK Maxx will simply process her in the same fashion as others, don't forget to update the thread.

Rebel - i've read it - very interesting. Looks like that is something we will have to face once we know what action the police intend to take.

Sidewinder - her job is a finincial one for, ironically, a neighbouring police force (civilian worker). If she were to end up with a record of any kind it may well spell the end of her career with the police, and i don't know how she would fair applying for financial jobs with a conviction for theft...........So although a shoplifting offence may seem like a small matter, it's something that may end up having a huge impact on our lives, so we are desperate that she is cleared of this.Thanks again for the info so far, would be very grateful to hear any other advice that people may have.

Hi - the point that I was making was that this needs to be fought at every opportunity, as the merest trace of an incident recorded by the police on a local database is liable to be disclosed on an enhanced CRB - even many years down the line and irrespective of whether the case were to proceed any further, so your girlfriend MUST take this as far as is necessary to be able to have that trace struck from the records if that is at all possible. There have been cases where even an unfounded allegation which the individual was completely unaware of has appeared in the 'non'conviction data' of a disclosure. That isn't to say that in your girlfriend's case this WOULD be disclosed - merely that it MAY, dependent on the level of vetting or background check being made.

I am 100% on your girlfriend's side here, and it seems that you are taking all the right steps so far. She is not guilty of any offence and is sticking to all the right principles in order to completely clear her name. Theft involves an intent to permanently deprive and clearly that was not the case here. I am sure that everybody, apart from possibly the security guard at the store will agree that this was an honest mistake.

Hi

Reference CCTV this mat help:

Maxxer worked in TK Max in the very dept you are discussing.

His impressively detailed post from the other day gives good info on what recordings are available.

Given it should be impossible to show the removing the about to be taken unpaid goods from their packaging, it looks like TKM's own tapes stand to show dishonesty of their staff with a discrepancy in the sound tape and its claim about CCTV footage.

CCTV.

 

There are several different 'ages' of cctv systems in use in the stores currently. Where I was, we all had the latest cctv systems, called cathexis. All the footage, from every camera, is recorded 24hrs a day, to hard drive. Every store has a cctv room, and a holding room. There are several monitors in the cctv room, and usually 2 keypads, which the LPI's use to follow people around on camera. There is a camera on every till, recording all transactions.

The holding room is where we take shoplifters. It has a desk, 3 chairs (bolted down to floor), a camera, AND MICROPHONE. Every conversation that takes place in the room is recorded, visual and audio. I put this in bold, because I dont know of any other retailler that records audio.

When an incident happens, the store is supposed to burn it to dvd for the police, and also burn a copy for RLP if needed (or in case of complaints). The store keeps the dvd they made for themselves, in the evidence cabinet, in the office.

 

If someone wants footage, there are forms kept in a 'data protection' folder for this purpose. Most people get told to write to head office, as they deal with the requests.

 

Head office can log into the cctv, and download the footage they need from the stores systems. They can then burn it for evidence / give to data subjects etc, without the store ever knowing that footage has been requested / given. The broadband data link is 'in the background', and stores dont even know theres someone remotely logged in, and watching.

 

The district managers do log in, and check the footage (especially of the holding room) on a regular basis, to 'quality check' the staff.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?340902-Former-TK-Maxx-Loss-Prevention-Manager-available-for-questions-!&p=3744848#post3744848

I am 100% on your girlfriend's side here, and it seems that you are taking all the right steps so far. She is not guilty of any offence and is sticking to all the right principles in order to completely clear her name. Theft involves an intent to permanently deprive and clearly that was not the case here. I am sure that everybody, apart from possibly the security guard at the store will agree that this was an honest mistake.

I agree - this will be NFA'd by the Police, because the evidence does not support intent to permanently deprive and they know that CPS won't waste money prosecuting it. No court will convict a person of good character in a case like this.

What was so excellent was the OP's girlfriend taking a clear and principled stance, and the comment about using the free solicitor too.

Hi All

Again, thanks for the contributions so far.

Following a trip to Citizens advice last Monday, my Girlfriend told her employer (Police force) about the arrest. Unfortunately, this has now resulted in her being suspended from her job on full pay. She had her ID card taken off her, and was escorted from the building. She was given a letter signed by the deputy chief constable informing her that she is not to attend the building or contact any colleagues without prior permission. I was surprised this happened when she hasn't actually been charged, but i guess they have to be seen to be whiter than white. It was made pretty clear by HR that any subsequent conviction, or even caution for theft will almost certainly result in her being dismissed (Good job she didn't accept the caution/fine offered by the police in the shop!). Needless to say, this has greatly upset her. It's also made her realise that the chances of getting a new accounting job with a theft convition are zero. So this really is career threatening.

On Friday we went to say a "Public defender" solicitor, as recommended by the CAB. This was very disheartening. After listening to her account, he basically said that we have a major problem. He is certain that the police will press charges, and he said that there was a good chance of her being convicted as the Magistrates were far more like to believe the security guard than her, as the security guard had no reason to do anything other than tell the truth. This really wasn't what we wanted to hear, and we came away very depressed. He also thought it unneccessary to have a solicitor with us when we go back to see the police.

Fortunately, i had also booked an appointment with a local solicitor that i found in the phone book. He was a lot more positive. Assuming that it does go to court, he said he was confident that we have a very good case. The fact that she put the item into her bag right in front of the tills demonstrates that she wasn't trying to hide her behaviour from the CCTV. The security guard has claimed in his statement that he saw her remove the tights from their box - when this can't be shown on CCTV (as it didn't happen) it will cast doubt on other elements of his statement. The fact that she didn't visit the changing rooms whilst in the shop also points to her having no desire to conceal the goods. Combined with her £50 purchase, the low value (£3.99) of the tights, her clean record, and the fact that her whole career has been put at risk, the solicitor thinks it would be highly unlikely that she would be convicted. He also said he would advise that we do have a solicitor with us when we attend the police station - and this representation is free of charge.

So......we now have to sit & wait for the 24th & hope & pray that the police decide not to go any further. If they do proceed, the solicitor believes it will be 2 - 3 months before it comes to court. Our nerves are shredded now, waiting to go back to the police station in a fortnight - no idea how we would deal with a 3 month wait.

On Friday we went to say a 'Public defender' solicitor, as recommended by the CAB. This was very disheartening. After listening to her account, he basically said that we have a major problem. He is certain that the police will press charges, and he said that there was a good chance of her being convicted as the Magistrates were far more like to believe the security guard than her, as the security guard had no reason to do anything other than tell the truth. This really wasn't what we wanted to hear, and we came away very depressed. He also thought it unneccessary to have a solicitor with us when we go back to see the police./QUOTE]

 

That's exceptionally poor advice. Unfortunately the UK "Public Defender" system doesn't have much of a reputation for expertise or commitment, it's quite possible that this chap had no criminal experience (and may not have even been a real lawyer).

 

Obviously your GF's career and reputation is on the line here, so well done for going to a real solicitor. In your position I would ask him to act for me at the Police station, and then in any court case. Better to have one regular chap you trust than to take your chances on the "duty".

 

She will need a lot of support now, Teessider. See if Boots are doing a 3 for 2 on tissues, and take a wheelbarrow. A long and anxious wait. Fortunately she will be on full pay, rightly.

firstly reading this has left me utterly disgusted.

I used to work in retail (not TK Maxx) the fact the item never left the store, as the alarm went off before you left and you offered to pay for the goods should be grounds enough for the case to be dismissed. For your gf to be carted off and treated like a common criminal is absolutely disgusting and i would be writing to everyone i could think of.

Just a quick update on what has happened since my last post.

To our immense relief, 3 days before she was due to report back to the police station, she recieved a letter from the police advising her that there would be no further action. It was obviously a standard letter, advising that if new evidence came to light then she could still face action etc, but it was clear that as far as the police are concerned, the matter is closed.

She informed her employer straight away, but suprisingly, nine days on she has heard nothing from them (we both assumed she would be told to come back to work straight away). We are now wondering if they are planning some kind of disciplinery action against her. I wouldn't have thought they could as she has not been convicted, or even charged, but according to her union rep they could still discipline her.

So, unfortunately, we are still back to waiting to hear what the outcome of the whole affair will be.

I would be astounded if any action could be taken against her, and she should be banging doors with the same effort that she has put into clearing her name thus far. On what grounds? Being the subject of a false accusation? Bringing the employer into disrepute? They couldn't possibly make a case which fell foul of her employment contract and would be on very shaky ground if they were to dismiss her.

Contact the employer with a copy of the letter and ask when she can return to work.

I would also now complainaabout the security guard directly to the Head Office of TK Max.

I would be astounded if any action could be taken against her, and she should be banging doors with the same effort that she has put into clearing her name thus far. On what grounds? Being the subject of a false accusation? Bringing the employer into disrepute? They couldn't possibly make a case which fell foul of her employment contract and would be on very shaky ground if they were to dismiss her.

The employer is entitled to consider whether their employee's conduct raises a workplace concern. For a Police employee, any suggestion of dishonesty is serious. Being innocent in criminal law (beyond reasonable doubt) does not necessarily mean being innocent in civil employment law (balance of probabilities).

Exaggerated example - A teacher kills a pedestrian whilst apparently drunk, but their solicitor puts up a clever defence on a technical point about breathalyser calibration and gains acquittal. The employer still has the right, sometimes the duty, to ask if they *probably* committed the crime. That is sufficient for disciplinary action.

Teessider, at some point soon your gf may be invited to a meeting with her police managers to discuss. Assume that they have seen all the shop evidence, CCTV etc. She has the right to be accompanied by a colleague, lawyer or union rep - she must not go alone. She only needs to tell them the truth - it was a mental lapse with no dishonest intent, and it is no reflection upon her ability or integrity at work. Very likely she will be reinstated after that, but if there's any suggestion of disciplinary action then you must ensure she has a solicitor.

Good luck

Contact the employer with a copy of the letter and ask when she can return to work.

 

 

HiThat's the first thing she did, as soon as she recieved the letter. They asked for a copy, which she sent, and then heard nothing. She tried contacting her line manager by phone but all she would say was "You will recieve a letter in due course advising what is happening". That was 10 days ago now.

Hi tee

Have you written to TK Maxx as suggested in post '3', an apologetic letter from TK Maxx that she could of handed to her employers would have helped her cause.

If its a neighbouring force, they may be waiting for the cctv to be sent over.

I would try to get a copy asap from tk's, which will validate your other half's story. The police forces are used to seeing loads of shoplifting cctv dvd's, and I'm sure will be able to tell there was no intention, or alert signals displayed during her time in the store (removing tickets, looking around furtively at staff or cameras, concealing goods and covering them up etc). That should clear it up quickly, and allow them to put the matter to bed.

A letter from tk head office explaining why they took the action they did, should also go some way to solving the issue, especially if tk's also accept that it was a mistake.

Just some points from me here: someone else mentioned my posts in another thread on here - I would ask for release of the cctv, as they aren't prosecuting you (so no excuses under dpa). The holding room has constant audio and video recording. The uniformed guards (lpo's) are not supposed to be doing stops on their own. As you pointed out, a lpi was obviously on camera, watching, so there should be a good load of good quality cctv, from moveable cameras.

Good luck.

Just some points from me here: someone else mentioned my posts in another thread on here - I would ask for release of the cctv, as they aren't prosecuting you (so no excuses under dpa). The holding room has constant audio and video recording. The uniformed guards (lpo's) are not supposed to be doing stops on their own. As you pointed out, a lpi was obviously on camera, watching, so there should be a good load of good quality cctv, from moveable cameras.

 

Good luck.

Thanks maxxer, that's really helpful inside info. If you get any trouble obtaining the video, Teessider, don't hesitate to get a lawyer onto it. A few hundred pounds in legal costs is a pain, but the prize is your gf's reputation and earning power for another 30 years.

Hi,

Sorry to have came into this at the tail end but please listen up. The Police have advised there is to be NFA(No further action)end of. That is it.End of story.One of the other contributors is absolutely correct when they said that you should be banging on doors,that is exactly what she should be doing and NOW! I noted that you haven't mentioned her union involvement in all of this. I imagine that she is in a union,given her type of job etc. If so she should be banging on their door as well,using them as an intermediary between her and her employer. But it is vitally important that she takes the lead here and doesn't let the grass grow under her feet. I can also tell you that "Anus Horribilis" is totally WRONG when he/she said that her employers have probably seen the evidence,video etc. I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. She has confidentiality rights like everyone else and they would be breaking their own rules of conduct if they had access to the "supposed" evidence that has since been discounted.

One last thing i would recommend and that is to find a very good "criminal work" only solicitor. You will not find one by contacting the CAB or other mobs like them. However may i politely suggest YOU fire yourself along to the magistrates court,i am assuming you are in England and speak to as many people as you can,by people i mean court clerks,solicitors who you will see darting around and,more importantly the accused themselves. They are more likely to be able to point you in the right direction of a good "Criminal only" solicitor. Getting the "right" solicitor is absolutely vital here so now you know what you must do,do it! And please post back here to let me know what happened and good luck,you have everyone,including th elaw on your side.