Hi

I CCA'd Citi Cards and

they have sent me a letter to say they regret to inform me that section 78 CCa 1974 does not require Citifinancial to provide me with a copy of the executed agreement

as i appear to believe.

It requires CF to provide me with a "copy of the executed agreement" as defined by the Consumer credit blah blah blah then at the bottom of the letter it says

The Consuer credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documnets) regulations 1983 make it clear at Reg 3 that the

"copy executed agreement" is not required to be an exact replica of the original agreement per

Se bu an extract since it is allowed to omit certain information including any signature box, signature or date of signature.

What does this mean they have sent me an agreement but its nothing to do with me (no address, name or sig)

Can anyone let me know there thoughts on this, is there another letter i can send them, is this right or are they trying to be clever?

Thanks

Sounds like a load of jargon to confuse and hope you take fright and give up, they are obliged to provide you with a copy of the CCA within 12+2 working days.

Take some time to read some of the threads in the Citicard forum.

CitiCards - The Consumer Forums

It is their usual load of hogwash. They seem to have big problems with original copies of CCAs and are desperately trying to bluster and b*llsh*t their way out of a deep hole.

Hi

After being redirected to this forum,

i cannot believe what Citicard are doing,

I have also recieved the bog standard letter,

to say they do not have to send me a True copy of my CCA.

What is the next step?

Can i send a letter to argue this,

although i have read some post where people have done this

and they have just sent one back arguing the toss on this one.

What do you think i should do now.

Your advice is appreciated.

Thanks

Hi there

Thanks for your replies,

i have had alook at other posts on citi card and cant really believe what they are telling people,

I will be following it up as they shouldnt be able to get away with that.

Thanks again

Citi will just give you a bulk standard response no matter what you send.

Therefore you have to esculate this, its a document that you are legally entitled to.

Citi state that regulations allow them to exclude certain information such as your name/address, signature etc. However what they are doing is attempting to mislead you by sending an entirely different document to the executed agreement which was completed in sending recent Terms & Conditions.

Complain to the head of the Office Of Fair Trading, a Mr John Fingleton, contact your local trading standards department and MP regarding this.

You are essentially requesting the document to see whether it is properly executed, you are entitled legally to a copy of this document under s78(1) Consumer Credit Act.... Citi are not complying and attempting to mislead customers.

Hi

Can anyone help me in writing a letter to Citi Cards or shall i say Capital collections.

Citi cards sent me a unenforcable CCA last month,

it seems they are sending everyone the same thing,

saying it is there right to hold back information.

i sent them a letter to say that it is my right to have a copy of my cca and the account is in despute i dont reconise the debt.

I have not had a reply from that letter but

yesterday received one from Capital collections agency saying that i have 72 hours to contact Citi cards to arrange a payment

or they are taking it to a DCA,

so im not sure what letter to write back to tell them that the account is in dispute and this should not be going to a DCA.

Can anyone help Please....

IF they send this onto a DCA, then send the DCA the following letter. Capital Collections will be well aware of their obligations and after the recent OFT slappings to other DCA's for ignoring claims of accounts being in dispute, they should tread carefully (although doubtful). I would also make a complaint to the OFT about Capital ignoring your claims of dispute The more people that complain about these kind of companies, the better!!

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Your Reference:

Client reference:

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to you, as it is in dispute with ***OC*** and has been since ***Date***

 

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

As ***OC*** is now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, Office of Fair Trading Collection Guidelines and s10 Data Protection Act request, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to ***OC*** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as ***DCA*** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If ***DCA***chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

Yours faithfully

Print do not sign your name

Thanks for the letter Clemma,

I does look like everyone is getting the same old rubbish from citicards.

Do you suggest I wait until the debt is past on to DCA before I sent that brilliant letter off?

Or shall i send it to Capital Collection who sent me the letter to say i had 72 hours to contact Citi cards?

I am learning very fast that these people like to try and scare people into calling.. but im standing my ground

Wait until they pass it on to the DCA (and you receive a letter from the DCA) then send it off to whichever lowlife Citi have chosen

Excellant thanks so much for your help, do you know if anyone has had any luck with them backing down?

Thanks

surely is the way to deal with citicard not to employ the services of no win no fee solicitor to take them on in court!

it seems to me that through this site we could get one of these solicitors to take on ONE of our cases to start the ball rolling

the advantage to them is once they have given citi a costs spanking there will be flood of other cagger cases for them to take on and earn a fortune out of fees

the advantage to caggers being able obvious

Hi

Just need some advice before i go ahead and send another letter to citicards to make sure i am sending the right one.

I have just had another letter from them with a credit agreement,

which they say is the origanal agreement from when i took out the card,

and shows the rates and the amount of credit and states that

this agreement does not include signature box or date as in accordance with regulations 3(2)(b)(ii) of consumer creidt (cancellation notices and copies of documents)

regulations 1983 we are not required to provide them.

Is this correct

do they not need to provide that information?

And how do i know that agreement is mine,

they could have just added my account information to it with my address etc,

because the first one they sent me a couple of months ago was just there current terms and conditions,

and they said then thats all they needed to provide to me, how come they didnt send this one in the first place?

Can someone advise me as i know there are loads of people on here who are getting the bog standard letter from them but what happens now?

Thanks

Best scan it and post it up for us to have a look, use something like photobucket.com to host it.

Obviously remove any details you dont want to be seen - as Citi employees (hello Amanda/spomfret) view this forum.

Hi Enron

Thanks for your reply, Im not able to scan and post on here, I have tried so many times using photobucket and failed.

Thanks

They can omit certain information including the signature, signature box and signature date - from memory though they should have left your name/address - after all it was on the outside of the envelope, so why not retain it on the document.

As with a lot of these thing Citi have a tendency to bend the rules, are you sure its not a multi page document headed terms & conditions.

For use to check it we'd really need to be able to view it to make sure all the prescribed terms are included in the document.

Thanks Enron, i have just had a scan of the CCA they have sent to me and have included 2 copies which are slightly different and also there is a date in the top right hand corner of both agreements and one is a date in 2007 and the other is 2008 I could my card out in 2005 so i know that this is not my origanal agreement, anything i can send back to them?

Thanks

Hi

I have recieved another letter from Citi cards to say that they have now closed my accoun

t and now expect the full amount owing to be paid in 7 days or they will take further action.

Just a reminder that i have not recieved a true copy of my agreement

and i have sent them all sorts of letters to let them know the account is in dispute etc etc.

Does anyone know what happens nexts? seems that it make no difference how many letters I send to them they are being ignored.

Can they take me to court with there so called argument that they do not have to send a true copy.

Thanks

They haven't provided you with a true copy of your agreement yet, and as such are legally barred from operating the account as normal.

That said Citi being Citi will continue to operate it as normal, the threats are a means to trying and obviously get you paying once more.... standard procedure for them.... they should not be requesting payment whilst the copy of the executed agreement has not been sent to you, as confirmed to me by the OFT.

It is likely that they will continue to default the account which will show up on your credit file, despite again being legally barred.

You will no doubt have more requests, and possibly phonecalls. I would suggest complaining to the OFT once more, and keeping details records of anything sent/said to you. Possibly consider contacting your local Trading Standards department as well as this is a document that you are legally entitled to - however Citi are instead attempting to mislead customers by stating that a varied agreement (i.e. T&C) is the executed agreement which you signed - which is complete bull.

I threatened legal action against the company when there Indian call centres continued to phone which seemed to work. You are afforded legal protection under the Protection From Harassment Act, besides there is a clear dispute here. Trading Standards could also prosecute them under the Administration Of Justice Act as well.

Thanks for your reply Enron, I know its a stupid question but how do i go about complaining to OFT I have not yet had to speak to them about any of my creditors but as you say its about time I did.

Thanks

Details here, write to them outlining your complaint.

The Office of Fair Trading: Contact us

Thanks again Enron, it does say on the OFT site that they dont deal with individual consumers, is that not me?

Thats the problem in this matter, normally you get referred to the FOS but they normally won't touch s78(1) matters.

Complaints to the OFT add up so its worth doing, if there are enough complaints something should be done.

I would suggest contacting your local trading standards department to gain their assistance in this matter, as the document you have requested is one which you are legally entitled to.

Hi all

As you all I have CCA's Citi who has come up with the same ole rubbish, this has been going on for some time now since the begining of the year, but for the past 3 months we have not heard a peep out of them, not a letter in sight.. now im a little nervous as im wondering if its the calm before the storm.. What do you think? Has it gone quite for anyone else?

Thanks

I just don't think that Citi want to comply, or have been instructed by those in the US not to.

There are lots of problems with their earlier agreements, and I think as such they don't want to raise the issue, as it could have a wider effect if the majority of their customers became aware of this... and likewise suspended payment if Citi did not come up with the documents requested.