Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
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    Default MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Hi,

    I’m having some issues with MBNAicon. Let me give you the rundown:

    October 10 2011 – I submit my PPI questionnaire to MBNA.
    October 17 2011 – They send me back the standard acknowledgement letter “we've received your letter etc. etc. etc. “
    October 31 2011 – I receive their first rejection letter.
    November 4 2011 – I send an email to the CEO pointing out a couple of further issues and they agree to look into the complaint again.
    November 15 2011 – They write back to me rejecting my complaint again, but stating that if I could give them further information they might reconsider the complaint.
    January 12 2012 – I send them this information. This is where the problem begins.

    I applied for the card in Feburary 2006, via an online application. I was returning to University (full-time) in September 2006, and subsequently would have had no need for PPI. MBNA have replied stating that they will refund the PPI, but only from September 2006 -September 2007. Surely this is not right. Shouldn't they be refunding the PPI for the entire length of the card? (It is still open, but my account facility has been withdrawn)

    Basically what I’m asking is what my next move should be. Should I go to the fosicon, given that they have essentially admitted I was missoldicon? Or do I need to speak to them again directly?

    Thanks in advance!


  2. #2
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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Yes, they should be refunding the total amount of premiums paid plus interesticon.

    You might want to wait for further input from ims21 and/or dx100uk

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Hi

    Have you got all of your statements?

    If not SARicon the lender to get them.

    templateicon for SARicon is in the CAG libraryicon, the link to which is at the top of every CAGicon page in green. From the information that comes back you should be able to work out what they should be paying you back.

    If you do have all of your statements then we can get underway without the SAR.

    ims

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ims21 View Post
    Hi

    Have you got all of your statements?

    If not SARicon the lender to get them.
    Happily I did SARicon them......they sent me a breakdown of all my transactions in a not that easy to read format.
    It does have every PPIicon payment I've made however, so maybe we can go from there.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Ok

    Last question...this transaction history....does it show opening balance and closing balance? What I mean is that they may not be copy statement but do they broadly conform to the templateicon of a statement?

    ims

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ims21 View Post
    Ok

    Last question...this transaction history....does it show opening balance and closing balance? What I mean is that they may not be copy statement but do they broadly conform to the templateicon of a statement?

    ims
    It doesn't show an opening/closing balance, just every transaction from the opening of the account until November 7 2011 (i.e. the date of the SARicon). I have some statements but none before 2009.

    hope that helps.........


  7. #7
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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Ok thanks.

    Sadly it is going to be very difficult to reconstruct the account yourself using a templateicon spreadsheet because the regulatory method of calculating redress relies on monthly charging periods and requires us to know the opening and closing balances on a statement.

    However, we could challenge them in another way to see what is going on.

    They say they are prepared to refund from Sept 2006 to Sept 2007.

    Your transaction history coupled with statements will almost certainly cover periods outside those two dates.

    Go through the statements and transaction history and make a list of all PPIicon premiums paid outside the period they are offering the refund for. Total that resultant list.

    Write back to them and acknowledge that they are prepared to make a refund and ask them to explain fully why they are not prepared to take into account the premiums paid either side of the dates they mention. Tell them that you enclose a spreadsheet of the charges they have apparently chosen not to take into account and that you require an explanation.

    See what they come back with.

    Can you give an idea of the size of the claim please?

    ims

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    What was your situation at the time you applied for the card in February 2006? Did you tell them then that you were entering full time education in September 2006? It is your situation at the time of the sale that matters, not what happens afterwards, that's not their problem. If you were in full-time employment, for instance, when you knowingly took out the PPI and there was no other reason for complaint about the sale at that time then technically it's not a mis-sale. Alternatively if you let them know at any point that you were becoming or had become a full-time student in September 2006 and they mis-informed you that your PPI would still cover you while you were in full-time education then they would be at fault.

    I've been going through something similar with a friend's complaint. She was employed when she took out the card (on-line application) but became self-employed a year later. According to both the card company and the fosicon, no mis-sale on that basis and no refund. The only thing in her favour was that the card company had failed to provide any policy documents (which they deny) and therefore she wasn't aware that she wasn't covered under their self-employment exclusions when she switched to being self-employed. After a lot of letters she's been offered a good will payment by the card. The FOS have suggested over the phone that she might want to accept the offer rather than take the case to them as they said they would still have to base their decision solely on the time of the sale (when she was employed) so realistically would be unlikely to uphold it - and the card company can just withdraw their goodwill offer at any time.

    Do as ims21 says and find out exactly why they're offering you a refund for that period of time, they seem to basing their refund on the time you became a student - if this is effectively a goodwill offer then at least try and get them to cover the whole period of time you were a student, presuming it was longer than one year. If there was any other reason why you believe you were mis-soldicon the policy specifically at the time of the sale or they refused to let you cancel the policy at any time or gave you incorrect information at a later date knowing your circumstances had changed then fight them for the lot.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ims21 View Post
    Ok thanks.

    Sadly it is going to be very difficult to reconstruct the account yourself using a templateicon spreadsheet because the regulatory method of calculating redress relies on monthly charging periods and requires us to know the opening and closing balances on a statement.

    However, we could challenge them in another way to see what is going on.

    They say they are prepared to refund from Sept 2006 to Sept 2007.

    Your transaction history coupled with statements will almost certainly cover periods outside those two dates.

    Go through the statements and transaction history and make a list of all PPIicon premiums paid outside the period they are offering the refund for. Total that resultant list.

    Write back to them and acknowledge that they are prepared to make a refund and ask them to explain fully why they are not prepared to take into account the premiums paid either side of the dates they mention. Tell them that you enclose a spreadsheet of the charges they have apparently chosen not to take into account and that you require an explanation.

    See what they come back with.

    Can you give an idea of the size of the claim please?

    ims
    Hi, excuse the delay, I've been searching for any statements I have left, but sadly the only ones I have are from December '09 - April '10, when my account was in default.

    To day the amount of premiums that I've paid are £1932.09

    Quote Originally Posted by freelance View Post
    What was your situation at the time you applied for the card in February 2006? Did you tell them then that you were entering full time education in September 2006? It is your situation at the time of the sale that matters, not what happens afterwards, that's not their problem. If you were in full-time employment, for instance, when you knowingly took out the PPI and there was no other reason for complaint about the sale at that time then technically it's not a mis-sale. Alternatively if you let them know at any point that you were becoming or had become a full-time student in September 2006 and they mis-informed you that your PPI would still cover you while you were in full-time education then they would be at fault.
    I agree. The issue here is that MBNAicon pre-ticked the PPI box (so it was an opt-out rather than an opt-in) which is a no-no as far as the fosicon is concerned. As far as I am aware (and am trying to find out via their Demands and Needs questionnaire from February 2006, which they seem to be reticent to produce a copy) MBNA were also strongly recommending that customers take out PPI in their literature.They changed this in 2009 from what I know to cover themselves

    Can I ask what Bank your friends' complaint is going through?


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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Barclaycard for my friend.

    Pre-ticked box you say! Go after them for the lot then. You may have to rely on the fosicon to uphold it though.

    I'd still be interested to know why they've offered a refund of that one specific year. I'd ask for a justification of their offer, they've made things a bit over-complicated for themselves by being so specific rather than just going for a random goodwill offer to try and make you go away. Personally I'd also give the FOS a call at this stage and ask them their thoughts - don't lodge an official complaint with them, just have a chat.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Quote Originally Posted by freelance View Post
    I'd still be interested to know why they've offered a refund of that one specific year. I'd ask for a justification of their offer, they've made things a bit over-complicated for themselves by being so specific rather than just going for a random goodwill offer to try and make you go away. Personally I'd also give the fosicon a call at this stage and ask them their thoughts - don't lodge an official complaint with them, just have a chat.
    Spoke to the FOS today......lady on the 'phone basically said the same things as you (i.e. only refunding one years' premiums + interesticon is strange since they're essentially admitting the policy is mis-sold , get back to MBNAicon and if no joy then lodge a complaint).

    The next step is to email MBNA tomorrow. Beyond asking them why they've come to their decision how should I word my request for all my premiums (+ interest) to be refunded?


  12. #12
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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ims21 View Post
    x
    As tedious as it may be, is it worth my time adding up all the transactions month by month and reconstructing the premiums that way? And then completing one of the spreadsheets available?


  13. #13
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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Well its up to you of course.

    For me, I'd want to form a strong argument and if you can do some figurework it just helps cement the logic behind any case you want to put to them.

    ims

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  14. #14
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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ims21 View Post
    Well its up to you of course.

    For me, I'd want to form a strong argument and if you can do some figurework it just helps cement the logic behind any case you want to put to them.

    ims
    OK I've totalled it up and got a rough figure. (about £6.3k). Should I mention that I've spoken to the fosicon or would that be detrimental and I should leave that out?


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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Quote Originally Posted by AB1979 View Post
    OK I've totalled it up and got a rough figure. (about £6.3k). Should I mention that I've spoken to the fosicon or would that be detrimental and I should leave that out?
    No reason why you can't mention your conversation with fos

    ims

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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    UPDATE:

    MBNAicon still not budging on full payout - now it's time to deal with the fosicon.

    Would it make any difference if I accepted the cheque they are going to send, or should I leave it aside until I have finished dealing with the FOS? i.e. would acceptance of the cheque constitute acceptance of MBNA's final decision?


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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    If it were me I'd hang on to any cheque until this has moved forward a bit.

    A call or even an e-mail to fosicon may reassure you about whether to bank it or not.

    ims

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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    I was advised by the fosicon not to bank a cheque (still in dispute) in case it was considered an acceptance of the refund as Full and finalicon settlement - just to be on the safe side. It seems to be a bit of a grey area. I tried to get the bank to send me a letter saying that if I did bank it they understood it was on the understanding the matter was still on-going but they wouldn't, they said they would 'take it in to consideration'. Sit on the cheque.

    Score Card

    For myself, family and friends......

    WIN! MBNA - £8,000 CC PPI + 3 months interest for delayed refund
    WIN! RBS - £1,400 CC PPI + 4 months interest added for delayed refund (via FOS)
    WIN! RBS - £150 BC (via FOS)
    WIN! Creation - £575 Store card PPI + 3 months interest for delayed refund
    WIN! Creation - £120 BC
    WIN! Ikano - £795 Store Card PPI
    WIN! CapitalOne - £1700 CC PPI
    WIN! CapitalOne - £110 BC
    WIN! HSBC - £2,850 CC PPI
    WIN! RBS/MINT - £1,900 - CC PPI
    WIN! Halifax - BC - £102
    WIN! Barclaycard - £130 BC
    Awaiting offer HSBC - MPPI (via FOS)
    Awaiting final response Barclaycard - CC PPI
    Awaiting final response Morgan Stanley - CC PPI
    SAR sent HSBC - CC PPI + Loan PPI
    SAR sent GE Money - Store Card PPI - not holding out much hope as very old account
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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Now I have another issue - not related to MBNAicon this time........

    I'm about to file a complaint with the fosicon over a PPI claim with Barclaycard. I have the forms etc. The problem I have is that I SAR'ed them in January and have heard nothing back from them (over 50 days now!). The cheque has also not been cashed, and I know they definitely received the package as it was signed for. Should I send the forms to the FOS and make a note that my SARicon is overdue to them, and that further information might be forthcoming? Also should I send a letter before actionicon to Barclaycard?


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    Default Re: MBNA PPI - partial payout.....

    Quote Originally Posted by AB1979 View Post
    Now I have another issue - not related to MBNAicon this time........

    I'm about to file a complaint with the fosicon over a PPI claim with Barclaycard. I have the forms etc. The problem I have is that I SAR'ed them in January and have heard nothing back from them (over 50 days now!). The cheque has also not been cashed, and I know they definitely received the package as it was signed for. Should I send the forms to the FOS and make a note that my SARicon is overdue to them, and that further information might be forthcoming? Also should I send a letter before actionicon to Barclaycard?
    As regards the SAR, if they have not complied and you want to get your data then an LBA is the next step.

    As regards the PPI claim, have BC given you their final response?

    ims

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