Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Platinum Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a donation
    andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Mar 2006
    I am in
    The power house of the Cabot Fan Club
    Posts
    6,178

    Default I need the Irish community knowledge, people who understand grazing rights

    Bit of an odd one here, but Rural it is, but in Southern Ireland rather than the UK.

    Generations ago you may be aware of the practice of taking of land by big landlords when the small farm land owners were imposed with taxes they couldn't pay. That's history.

    My wife's family had such a thing happen with 2 small fields of about 2 hectacres. boggy moors they are referred to and only fit for grazing of a few cows as it boarders proper bog land where turf was cut.

    For as long as anyone can remember (at least 60 years) the landlords have allowed these fields to be used by our family for 'grass' and has never asked anyone to leave, provide a lease, issue invoices or receipts for the 80 odd pound a year paid - usually cash.

    There were other issues with this landlord about Rights of way which I won't trouble you with here, suffice to say I made him an offer of 1 for the fields to keep things simple or we'd go for adverse possession as he's done nothing whatsoever to the fields since the year dot.

    Mud hit the fan and he issued a notice to vacate using Landlord and Tennant Act and breeches to our 'lease' terms for not looking after the fields properly.

    My question here relates to another bit he threw in which was about us having tenancy for 9 months of the year and the term of notice was to December 31st from the rental period of April - December.

    Can anyone point me to the legislation in S.Ireland which regulates this period of 'in the land for 9 months and out for 3 months each year?

    I know it is common practice as it happened in another farm owned by the family and they asked the tenant to leave each year for 3 months November until the end of March each year, but nobody seems to know what law this relates to other than it breaks the period of tenancy so the tenant can't get ownership rights.

    I just need to know to what law this relates and I'm sure we must have one or two Irish amongst us who might know.

    Needless to say, I have asked for a copy of the alleged lease we are accused of breeching, but I'm not worried about that, just this 9/3 month issue.

    Thank you...

    Cabot and the Cabot Fan Club Threads:
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...101-cabot.html

    Legal Actions Explained for Businesses:
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...d-company.html

    Payplan CCCS Advice:
    http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/for...hlight=Payplan

    How to use the Forum
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...i-dummies.html

    A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful
    Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.

    PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps

    PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able to respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! Thank you.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  2. #2
    Site Team Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2006
    I am in
    The South West
    Posts
    5,143
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: I need the Irish community knowledge, people who understand grazing rights

    Hi Andrew,

    This 9 on and 3 off lease thing is fairly common on the mainland UK as well. There are a number of reasons for this. 1. It stopped tennents from claiming the (Euro wide) Single Farm Payment that the owner could claim. 2. It made sure that the land was rested for a time, normaly over the worst of the winter months and stopped some poaching of the land. 3. It stopped tennents from claiming 'grandfather' rights on the land.

    To claim your family have 'damaged' the land, they would need to have records of the state of the land when you took it over. I.E. they would/should have agronomic records of the chemistry of the land. There are ways then of costing what it would take to return the land to it's prevous condition. Likewise, if your family have put a lot of chemicals/lime on the ground to improve it, then the landlord should replay the cost to take it from where it was to it's present state.

    You really need to see this lease first!!

    Lex

    Please help us to help you. Download the CAG tool bar for free HERE and use the search option for all your searches. CAG earns a few pennies every time !!!

    Please don't rush, take time to read these:-


    &


    This is always worth referring to





    Advice & opinions given by me are personal, are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group or the Bank Action Group. Should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  3. #3
    Platinum Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a donation
    andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Mar 2006
    I am in
    The power house of the Cabot Fan Club
    Posts
    6,178

    Default Re: I need the Irish community knowledge, people who understand grazing rights

    Hi Lex, thanks for that, your the first person I've come across who seems to know anything about this, so thanks...

    Update is that we asked for the lease, being neighbours we tried to be nice about things, but they are like banks - ! we got into dialogue between us without involving legals (this is S.Ireland) but they just stopped responding and under our nose just went in, fenced the fields off and got the Forestry to plant new trees all within 2 weeks. We are only talking a couple of hectacres, 2 small fields, but they are right next to a peat bog so there was never any requirement for chemicals, our family just grazed cattle (4 or 5 at most) for the grass.

    I wrote to the forestry commission over there telling them we had been evicted from the lands after 70 yrs+ unbroken use using so called Terms and Conditions breaches in a lease we'd never seen.

    I had asked for a copy of said lease, copies of receipts of rental payments (which were never given) and copies of the annual renewal documents they purported to give us. Nothing has come, so I have both written again to the family and the Forestry telling them they can plant and fence what they like, but unless they come up with this lease we will take action to recover the lands and the grant they got from the Forestry will have to be repaid and we will request the land being restored to it's former grass land with no fencing at their cost.

    They are just being bullish and thinking as they are a big land owner and we a mere small holding farmer who wouldn't say boo to a goose they can just bulldoze their attitude right through us, that was until I came on the scene and they don't know me that well.

    I'm a little uncertain of the chances we have as they have effectively just seized the land back by stealth, but I'm all ears if you have any thoughts on that. I'm just braizening my way through this hoping it won't go legal, but it sure as hell is not going to be given to us as a goodwill gestureicon - this is land we are talking about and these guys are farmers. It was our family land for generations before they seized them by charging default taxes in the dark ages which couldn't be paid, and they sit at the heart of our farm, nowhere near their own place, they just want them back because they feel they can earn more in grants by planting them. We've just innocently used them all these years paying a small grass rent each year or for all I know, we could have been buying them with these payments each year - the parents are now dead and gone so it's all supposition, but you can't evict someone on a whim using non existent terms and conditions in a lease. Well I don't think you can anyway....

    Cabot and the Cabot Fan Club Threads:
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...101-cabot.html

    Legal Actions Explained for Businesses:
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...d-company.html

    Payplan CCCS Advice:
    http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/for...hlight=Payplan

    How to use the Forum
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...i-dummies.html

    A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful
    Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.

    PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps

    PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able to respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! Thank you.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  4. #4
    Site Team Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2006
    I am in
    The South West
    Posts
    5,143
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: I need the Irish community knowledge, people who understand grazing rights

    Hi Andrew, It really is like the famine all over again!!

    Until we see the lease, there is not much we can do. If it's all planted already it may be more of a problem. You've done the right thing informing the FC, they might but pressure on the owners to find the documents. You might also contact :- http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/ who are the Irish version of DEFRA and see what they have to say. Get any holding numbers/field numbers in front of you before you ring.

    Cheers,

    Lex

    Please help us to help you. Download the CAG tool bar for free HERE and use the search option for all your searches. CAG earns a few pennies every time !!!

    Please don't rush, take time to read these:-


    &


    This is always worth referring to





    Advice & opinions given by me are personal, are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group or the Bank Action Group. Should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  5. #5
    Platinum Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a donation
    andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Mar 2006
    I am in
    The power house of the Cabot Fan Club
    Posts
    6,178

    Default Re: I need the Irish community knowledge, people who understand grazing rights

    In your opinion then, what difference might them having stolen it back and planting it make to the equation? We are talking 2 weeks ago, no longer. He'd actually put his request to the Forestry for a grant back in June 2010 and had said nothing to anyone until I raised an issue with him over him thinking he could walk through our farm as a right of Way - We just dangled a letter from the Land registry under his nose and told him to take a hike much to his annoyance. It's like them pi**ing on a tree like a dog to mark their territory, but that doesn't change the law though surely?

    I need an angle to try and wrestle this back, I know possession is 9/10ths of the law and the land is in their name, but it still doesn't make it right. I can't leave it too long otherwise the court would think we'd just accepted it and I've written to this landlord for want of a name reminding him that I am still waiting and we won't let this go and he'll have to repatriate the land if I win. He'll also need to suffer the public humiliation of losing in court too if he doesn't accept my previous offer of 1 to take it off his hands as a goodwill gestureicon to settle this....I could feel him spitting blood from here in London reading that

    He's walking around smiling like a Cheshire cat thinking he's got away with just ignoring us and snatching back his fields, probably done his street cred no harm, but I've not finished with him yet.

    I need a plan....

    Cabot and the Cabot Fan Club Threads:
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...101-cabot.html

    Legal Actions Explained for Businesses:
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...d-company.html

    Payplan CCCS Advice:
    http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/for...hlight=Payplan

    How to use the Forum
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...i-dummies.html

    A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful
    Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.

    PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps

    PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able to respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! Thank you.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  6. #6
    Site Team Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2006
    I am in
    The South West
    Posts
    5,143
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: I need the Irish community knowledge, people who understand grazing rights

    Is there such a thing in Ireland as a emergency injunction, or could we use a animal welfare act as your now without grazing you have had for years??
    Also, what about the Human Rights Act, Ireland is in the EC!
    I'll have a look on the Irish court sites tomorrow Andrew and see what I can find.

    Lex

    Please help us to help you. Download the CAG tool bar for free HERE and use the search option for all your searches. CAG earns a few pennies every time !!!

    Please don't rush, take time to read these:-


    &


    This is always worth referring to





    Advice & opinions given by me are personal, are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group or the Bank Action Group. Should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  7. #7
    Platinum Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a donation
    andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Mar 2006
    I am in
    The power house of the Cabot Fan Club
    Posts
    6,178

    Default Re: I need the Irish community knowledge, people who understand grazing rights

    Thanks, if you have links to Irish sites please pop them up and I'll do the leg work, no problems with that, but I am trying to use what skills I have before going into injunctions and the likes because of costs. In Ireland at the moment using a solicitor is horrendous costs wise and no-one has much spare cash to give to lawyers.

    I know I've gone so far and they are now ignoring me so one might assume it will come to legals, but they are neighbours and pass by daily, they are also community members around this small area all be it the only large Protestant landowners. Just sticks in the graw knowing they were 'allocated' their lands in years gone by and got them for free whereas all these small farmers held these lands for generations and worked them. Then these Landlords came along with taxes on all the locals and when they couldn't pay them they confiscated fields - these 2 of ours being some of them. There's no love lost between these families although my wife went to school each day with the decendants we are fighting now (before they went off to their separate religion schools!) Where land is involved, it's fight to the death though.

    I did ask the Forestry Service who granted the funding to plant these lands to ask for these documents which would/should have been in place back in June 2010 when the grant was applied for and they have passed it onto their legal department for scrutiny. What I did do was say that if the family have seized these lands back unlawfully then the Forestry Service could have an implied liability of aiding and abetting in a unlawful act...that must have made them sit up and take notice, be interesting to hear what they come back with.

    The thing is, if I do take them to court or issue a claim of some kind then the first thing any judge will want to see is this lease - I know they don't have one so where do we go from there?

    Is it we cannot stake our claim, or is it they cannot rely upon terms and conditions which don't exist.? We have the older parents records of payments made each year as they diarised their activities across the farm so we can prove the payments, but I am sure as hell sure the landlords didn't keep records of the cash which changed hands each year (only small - recently went up to 100 from 80 a year) 'for the grass' as they called it. But never were there any breaks, not even a ten minute one let alone 3 months in all those 70 odd years.

    Thanks Mr Lex this is most appreciated - a relief actually to find someone who I can talk to about this who seems to understand what's gone on..None of the family in Ireland seem to know and even the family solicitor I called didn't know much about this kind of arrangement...strange in the middle of the countryside in the depths of Tipperary! LOL

    Cabot and the Cabot Fan Club Threads:
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...101-cabot.html

    Legal Actions Explained for Businesses:
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...d-company.html

    Payplan CCCS Advice:
    http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/for...hlight=Payplan

    How to use the Forum
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...i-dummies.html

    A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful
    Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.

    PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps

    PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able to respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! Thank you.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  8. #8
    Site Team Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2006
    I am in
    The South West
    Posts
    5,143
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: I need the Irish community knowledge, people who understand grazing rights

    Good morning Andrew.

    A couple of things,

    We have the older parents records of payments made each year as they diarised their activities across the farm so we can prove the payments, but I am sure as hell sure the landlords didn't keep records of the cash which changed hands each year (only small - recently went up to 100 from 80 a year) 'for the grass' as they called it. But never were there any breaks, not even a ten minute one let alone 3 months in all those 70 odd years.
    This sounds like they are trying to say you were renting the 'crop' grazing rights (the grass) not the land and that fits in with the 9/3 idea.
    You need to use this 70 years uninterrupted use to best advantage. I'll do some more digging, but I think the best you can hope for is the use of a similar sized plot as you are being deprived of your 'Grand Father' rights. Is there a CAB in Ireland ?? I feel you need someone from outside to help make your point as it seems like they are just ignoring you at the moment.

    Lex

    Please help us to help you. Download the CAG tool bar for free HERE and use the search option for all your searches. CAG earns a few pennies every time !!!

    Please don't rush, take time to read these:-


    &


    This is always worth referring to





    Advice & opinions given by me are personal, are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group or the Bank Action Group. Should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  9. #9
    Site Team Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2006
    I am in
    The South West
    Posts
    5,143
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: I need the Irish community knowledge, people who understand grazing rights

    A few links for you:-

    Irish Court Service http://www.courts.ie/

    Irish Farming Forum http://www.irelandfarming.com/forum.html ( They might have more info than me!! )

    Citizens Advice http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/

    Arbitrion services in Ireland http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sclie...w=1366&bih=559

    There might be something here !!

    Lex

    Please help us to help you. Download the CAG tool bar for free HERE and use the search option for all your searches. CAG earns a few pennies every time !!!

    Please don't rush, take time to read these:-


    &


    This is always worth referring to





    Advice & opinions given by me are personal, are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group or the Bank Action Group. Should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  10. #10
    Platinum Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a donation
    andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Mar 2006
    I am in
    The power house of the Cabot Fan Club
    Posts
    6,178

    Default Re: I need the Irish community knowledge, people who understand grazing rights

    Thanks Lex

    Now, here are the letters they wrote setting their stall out after I'd told them I was going for Adverse possession:


    Attachment 33861

    Attachment 33862

    This gives you a perspective of where they see their legal position. Just to keep things clear for you.

    The irony of this is that the only thing that ever happened on this boggy fields was to let the cows eat the grass - it wasn't fit for anything else, we drained them all the time as they sit right on the peat bog edge. All the rest of the content of these letters is pure twaddle.

    It is also a fact that they had planned the forestation back in June 2010 when they applied to the Forestry Service so all this nonsence about deciding to take them back because of bad husbandry is claptrap.

    Cabot and the Cabot Fan Club Threads:
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...101-cabot.html

    Legal Actions Explained for Businesses:
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...d-company.html

    Payplan CCCS Advice:
    http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/for...hlight=Payplan

    How to use the Forum
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...i-dummies.html

    A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful
    Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.

    PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps

    PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able to respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! Thank you.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  11. #11
    Site Team Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2006
    I am in
    The South West
    Posts
    5,143
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: I need the Irish community knowledge, people who understand grazing rights

    Hi Andrew,

    Sorry I haven't posted before but I wanted to run these letters past a Strut and Parker land agent I know.
    His feeling is that they have acted in a very heavy handed way but are within their rights as this is a 'grazing agreement' and not a Farm Lease.
    Hence the 9 months on - 3 months off. The fact you have used the land for 12 months could be offered as the reason for poor husbandry.
    I hate to be the bringer of bad news and I'm not sure how far you have got since we last posted. I'm thinking the best way forward may be to go back and thank them for the past relationship and see what other land they may be prepared to offer.
    I am not very optimistic as they seem hell bent on 'Planting for the Grant' as we say over here!!

    I'm sorry I have no better news mate, but do let me know how you get on.

    Lex

    Please help us to help you. Download the CAG tool bar for free HERE and use the search option for all your searches. CAG earns a few pennies every time !!!

    Please don't rush, take time to read these:-


    &


    This is always worth referring to





    Advice & opinions given by me are personal, are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group or the Bank Action Group. Should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  12. #12
    Platinum Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a donation
    andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Mar 2006
    I am in
    The power house of the Cabot Fan Club
    Posts
    6,178

    Default Re: I need the Irish community knowledge, people who understand grazing rights

    Hi Mr Lex, not a problem, we say things how they are not the way we want to hear them so that's appreciated. Otherwise we'll be dancing around the emotions and never getting to the realities. You carry on like that.

    Now, update: They have planted the land with trees and fenced it off and are going around like Cheshire cats and ignoring any letters I send asking them to respond.

    You make some very valid points and for that I am grateful.

    His feeling is that they have acted in a very heavy handed way but are within their rights as this is a 'grazing agreement' and not a Farm Lease.

    Can I ask you, what lease or grazing agreement did you show Strutt & Parker?

    Precisely! you haven't got one and neither have they so how can they enforce it one may ask? - By stealth? I don't think that applies in S.Ireland any more than it applies here.

    Would a judge not ask for a copy of the lease or agreement we have allegedly breached?

    How can they claim 'poor husbandry' when they never set foot in the place for 70+yrs?

    Sorry, just testing..

    There is another twist to this too...in addition to these 2 fields is a very small plot of land behind the barn in the yard Difficult to describe here, but opposite the main house across the yard is a barn parallel to the house. It's probably 30' x 10' . behind the barn is a very small patch of grass of similar size where once stood a very small cottage that ran at right angles to the main house where my wife's family and grandparents and great grandparents lived.

    When these landlords came on the scene demanding taxes the main house of today didn't exist neither did the barn, but they split the old cottage in 2 and installed another family in our folks home. There were only 11 in our family so plenty of room to divide the house in two!!

    Anyway, that little plot became a part of the arrangement over the 2 fields.

    When the new house was built and the imported family long since gone the barn was built half on our yard and half (about 2ft but the length of the barn) on this strip of land where the cottage was and that land is still in these landlords name. To reclaim the land in the barn they would have to knock this barn down, but it is an intregal part of the 'package' but it is never talked about. I was thinking Adverse possession?

    That, needs to be sorted too as otherwise our children or grandchildren will be having this fight all over again.

    So, no lease or agreement, no terms and conditions and therefore how can they enforce their way back in?

    I have sent numerous emails which have been ignored, but we need to move it on. The family have sat back and let things tick, but there's not a chance in a million there would be any other fields supplied (there aren't any) and this neighbour will not bend over backwards to placate any loss of grass either.

    I'm not too sure which way I'll move yet, but any solicitor would I'd imagine be looking for that lease or agreement Lex.

    What do you think?

    The 9/3 is only something they've mentioned now, it has never entered their heads before or passed their lips so don't take literally what you read in these letters will you?

    I have to play smart.

    really appreciate what you have found already and your efforts, thanks.

    A1

    Cabot and the Cabot Fan Club Threads:
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...101-cabot.html

    Legal Actions Explained for Businesses:
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...d-company.html

    Payplan CCCS Advice:
    http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/for...hlight=Payplan

    How to use the Forum
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...i-dummies.html

    A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful
    Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.

    PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps

    PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able to respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! Thank you.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  13. #13
    Site Team Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex Authoritative Mr lex's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2006
    I am in
    The South West
    Posts
    5,143
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: I need the Irish community knowledge, people who understand grazing rights

    Hi Andrew,

    What my S&P guy saw was only the two letters they sent you. His eyes where drawn to the words, 'Renting the grass'. To him, that ment you where renting the crop, not the land as such.

    We really do have to see that first agreement, don't we

    I think it might be worth you speaking to the Arbitrion services in Ireland and see what they have to say.

    http://www.cedrsolve.ie/?page=schemes

    http://www.dublinarbitration.ie/aii/

    Lex

    Please help us to help you. Download the CAG tool bar for free HERE and use the search option for all your searches. CAG earns a few pennies every time !!!

    Please don't rush, take time to read these:-


    &


    This is always worth referring to





    Advice & opinions given by me are personal, are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group or the Bank Action Group. Should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  14. #14
    Platinum Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a donation
    andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1 Authoritative andrew1's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Mar 2006
    I am in
    The power house of the Cabot Fan Club
    Posts
    6,178

    Default Re: I need the Irish community knowledge, people who understand grazing rights

    Now we're getting somewhere, thanks Lex..

    Cabot and the Cabot Fan Club Threads:
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...101-cabot.html

    Legal Actions Explained for Businesses:
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...d-company.html

    Payplan CCCS Advice:
    http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/for...hlight=Payplan

    How to use the Forum
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...i-dummies.html

    A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful
    Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.

    PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps

    PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able to respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! Thank you.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0


Viewing CAG on a small screen? Switch to the mobile version of the site

Reclaim the Right Ltd. - reg.05783665 in the UK reg. office:- 923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE