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    • Yes, Hotpoint UK has been a subsidiary of Whirlpool for over 20 years. And unlike some domestic goods manufacturers you can buy from them direct and I believe they employ their own service engineers, Is that your situation? You bought direct from Hotpoint and Hotpoint sent out their own engineer?
    • It's Hotpoint (but I believe they're part of the Whirlpool group now?). The part was bought direct from them as a consumer.
    • Thanks BankFodder for your latest, I'm in complete agreement on the subject of mediation and will be choosing to decline mediation, the longer timeline is not an issue for me, I will happily let the going to court run it's course. I really appreciate the support from the Consumer Action Group. I'll post the email text I'm sending to Evri's small claims in answer to their recent defence response. Regards, J    email text I'm sending to Evri's small claims in answer to their recent defence response:  
    • Sec127 (3) repealed, now gone. S. 127(3)-(5) repealed (6.4.2007) by Consumer Credit Act 2006 (c. 14), ss. {15}, 70, 71(2), {Sch. 4} (with Sch. 3 para. 11); S.I. 2007/123, art. 3(2), Sch. 2
    • We used to recommend that people accept mediation but our advice has changed. The mediation process is unclear. Before you can embark on it you have to agree that you are prepared to enter a compromise – and that means that you agree that you are prepared to give up some of your rights even though you are completely in the right and you are entitled to hundred percent of your money and even though EVRi are simply trying to obstruct you in order to discourage you and also to put others who might want to follow your example off from claiming and even though they have a legitimate basis for reimbursement. Mediation is not transparent. In addition to having to sign up that you are prepared to give up some of your rights, you will also have to agree not to reveal any details of the mediation – including the result of the mediation – so that the whole thing is kept secret. This is not open justice. Mediation has nothing to do with justice. The only way of getting justice is to make sure that this matter goes to trial unless EVRi or the other parcel delivery companies put their hands up and accept the responsibility even if they do it is a gesture of goodwill. Going to trial and winning at trial produces a judgement which we can then add to our small collection to assist other people who are in a similar boat. EVRi had been leading you around by the nose since at least January – and probably last year as well – and their whole purpose is simply to drag it out, to place obstacles in your way, to deter other people, and to make you wish that you'd never started the process and that you are prepared to give up your 300 quid. You shouldn't stand for it. You should take control. EVRi would prefer that you went to mediation and if nothing else that is one excellent reason why you should decline mediation and go to court. If it's good for them it's bad for you. On mediation form, you should sign that you are not prepared to compromise and that you are not prepared to keep the result secret but that you want to share the results with other people in similar circumstances. This means that the mediation won't go ahead. It will take slightly longer and you will have to pay a court fee but you will get that back when you win and you will have much greater satisfaction. Also, once you go the whole process, you will learn even more about bringing a small claim in the County Court so that if this kind of thing happens again you will know what to do and you will go ahead without any hesitation. Finally, if you call EVRi's bluff and refuse mediation and go to trial, there is a chance – maybe not a big chance – but there is a chance that they will agree to pay out your claim before trial simply in order to avoid a judgement. Another judgement against them will simply hurt the position even more and they really don't want this. 300 quid plus your costs is peanuts to them. They don't care about it. They will set it off against tax so the taxpayer will make their contribution. It's all about maintaining their business model of not being liable for anything, and limiting or excluding liability contrary to section 57 and section 72 of the consumer rights act.     And incidentally, there is a myth that if you refuse mediation that somehow it will go against you and the judge will take a dim view and be critical of you. This is precisely a myth. It's not true. It would be highly improper if any judge decided the case against you on anything other than the facts and the law of the case. So don't worry about that. The downside of declining mediation is that your case will take slightly longer. The upside is that if you win you will get all your money and you will have a judgement in your favour which will help others. The chances of you winning in this case are better than 95% and of course you would then receive 100% of your claim plus costs
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Heating Issue -Housing Association


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Before I start I must say I have missed you guys. After 6 months of no internet I can finally search on my favourite forum again!!!!

 

OK Here is the crack!

 

I am a resident in "affordable housing" let to me by the local housing association. I currently have a heating system installed called a NIBE Fighter 360P. This is an Air Source Heat Pump which is using an astronomical amount of electricity (£10 a day). After struggling on with them for months and being fobbed off, I have finally decided to take them to task and go for the jugular. I am quite afaik with consumer credit law but my housing law fails me. Here is information send to the housing assciation.

 

 

Further to our telephone conversation last week I am writing to you to outline the problems with my NIBE 360 Fighter Boiler which I would like addressed as a formal complaint under the BPHA complaints procedure and the relevant housing legislation.

 

Family Background

Mother has had major lung surgery within the last 2 years (left sided thoracotomy with pleurodesis) and currently has COPD and week lungs.

6 year old child - ADHD, Aspergers, Disabled under joint care of Great Ormond Street Hospital for Children, Bedford Hospital and Addenbrooks Hospital with undiagnosed gastrointestinal problem.

5 year old child - mild asthmatic,

4 year old child - serious asthmatic with acute tonsillitis, history of life threatening pneumonia and very week lungs.

19 month old baby under care of paediatric consultant for failure to thrive.

10 month old baby under care of paediatric consultant for failure to thrive.

 

Main Concerns: NIBE Fighter 360P

Boiler causing extremes of fluctuating temperatures within the family home.

Boiler consistently breaking down causing lack of central heating and hot water.

Boiler using large amounts of electricity despite being set up properly by NIBE engineers.

Boiler failing to heat family home adequately.

Lack of qualified persons to repair the boiler.

Health Concerns as a result of the above.

 

Backround on NIBE

 

NIBE unit has been repaired multiple times by both NIBE engineers and engineers working on behalf of BPHA. E.ON energy monitor connected to home power supply and prepayment meter fitted (after threat of warrant) as family can not afford level of electricity NIBE unit is using. Unit regularly uses in excess of 8-KWH. Approximately £60.00 (minus £5 for debt collection) being paid into meter per week. Nibe unit not heating upstairs adequately at night forcing parents to bring children to lower floors to sleep. Lack of heating making eldest daughter (with acute tonsillitis) extremely unwell.

 

Supporting Information - Delivered by hand no later than Friday 9th December 2011.

 

Letter from GP.

Letter from registered Nurse Anne Salfrais BSc(Hons) BA(Hons) RN.

 

 

If we could arrange a meeting to discuss possible outcomes to resolve these issues then I would be grateful.

 

 

Any Ideas Anyone?

:whoo:Debt Paid £9.99 - Unlawful Debt Removed £51.09 - Total Debt Busted £61.08:whoo:

SFUK vs Jacamo / JD Williams - WON

SFUK vs Vanquis Bank - Ongoing

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Hi sf

 

Landlord is to ensure that the tenants are warm. This is not only a concern but also a legal obligation under section 11 of the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985

 

“© To keep in repair and proper working order the installation in the dwelling for space heating and heating of water.”

 

Whilst this legislation does not set out any legal minimum in terms of temperature, keeping tenants warm does make good business sense.

 

Heres some info:- http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_PTL_DOMHEAT.pdf

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/70/section/11

 

http://www.housing-ombudsman.org.uk/

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thankyou for your response. I have made an SAR and FOI request. Can you see if i have missed anything.

 

Dear Sir / Madam

 

We are exorcising our right under the Data Protection Act 1998 for a full copy of all of the data you hold on us from 1st February 2010. Please send the following information within the time scale alloted by statute:

 

1. Copies of all notes on the account for the above adddress.

2. Copies of repairs, jobs booked and appointments scheduled or previously scheduled for work at the above property.

3. Any notes regarding the NIBE Fighter 360P installed in our property.

4. Copies of the tenancy agreement and any subsequent ammendments.

5. Copies of any court paperwork issued against us and the outcome.

6. Copies of any notes from visits by BPHA staff and the outcomes.

7. Copies of any complaints made by us and the outcomes.

8. Notes regarding all conversations between myself or my partner and bpha staff.

9. Emails from us to bpha and the response.

10. Any other personal data.

 

Where any information has been deleted, modified, removed or required manual intervention, please specifty what information and how it was altered.

 

 

We are also exorcising our rights under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

 

Please provide the following information you have on the NIBE Fighter 360P Air Source Heat Pumps installed throughout BPHA homes.

 

1. How many units are installed throughout the entire BPHA Stock.

2. How many complaints have been made about these units.

3. Do the housing association consider these units to be energy efficient and if so on what grounds are they basing their consideration.

4. Do the housing association accept that the NIBE Fighter 360P uses a reasonable amount of electricity.

5. Do the housing association have any plans to replace these units in the near future and if so, what is the status of this planning.

6. What steps did the housing association take to ensure that these units would not cause undue distress and fuel poverty to tenants before allowing them to be installed.

:whoo:Debt Paid £9.99 - Unlawful Debt Removed £51.09 - Total Debt Busted £61.08:whoo:

SFUK vs Jacamo / JD Williams - WON

SFUK vs Vanquis Bank - Ongoing

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Hi sfuk

 

Right it a Housing Association you are doing the right thing in what you are asking for of the housing association in your request.

 

1. When you moved into the property were you given a manual for the boiler and instructions for operating the boiler? (if not here is a link to the manual pdf file FIGHTER 360P http://www.nibeonline.com/pdf/411482-1.pdf).

2. When the housing association maintenance policy on the boilers?

3. How many times have they been called out to repair the boiler?

4. Are other Tenants having the same kind of issue as yourself?

 

Something to consider asking the housing association due to all this to get the actual manufacturer to inspect the system.

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

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Thanks. I have them coming out this evening so ill post back and let you know the outcome of the meeting. Ill serve the letteron them as well.

:whoo:Debt Paid £9.99 - Unlawful Debt Removed £51.09 - Total Debt Busted £61.08:whoo:

SFUK vs Jacamo / JD Williams - WON

SFUK vs Vanquis Bank - Ongoing

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi...We have these systems in our new build HA homes....we are in St Neots near Bedford...also another estate (same HA) has them installed....we are having huge problems and bills....we have now gone to houisng ombudsman to resolve as we are connected to gas so should not have has electric boilers put in....

We have a facebook page called NIBE BOILER PROBLEMS..

 

.the systems are only about 210% efficent if in the correct conditions but dont be confused with someone saying a gas boiler is only 90% effcient as gas is 3 to 4 time cheaper and produce 2.94 times LESS CO2 than electricity so is greener ...which means the NIBE would have to be a constant 300 to 350% effcient to even match gas.......its a huge con........

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  • 1 month later...

OK

 

Have started the Nibe Boiler Problems Wixams group on facebook. I have a few questions?

 

Is having an adequate heating system an implied term of a tenancy agreement and is there any case law to back this up?

Is a unit that costs 4 times more then its most expensive rival legal?

 

Are there any cases that establish in law how hot a home should be or how much these units should cost?

:whoo:Debt Paid £9.99 - Unlawful Debt Removed £51.09 - Total Debt Busted £61.08:whoo:

SFUK vs Jacamo / JD Williams - WON

SFUK vs Vanquis Bank - Ongoing

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Hi sfuk

 

Something else you could do is write to the housing association and also request copies of all Board Minutes from idea of this system to the Board Approving this system for installation to the properties. This way you will be able to see if any discussion to place on the potential impact to tenants due to high electricity cost.

 

Or you could just request in writing all information relating to this system and the breakdown of the potentila cost to tenants that was given to the Board for the Board to approve this system.

 

What also helps in cirumstances like this is rather than one person complaining about this more are better and even getting a petition signed by all tenants affected and handed into the Association will help you fight.

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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  • 1 year later...
This thread is 18 month old, dma

 

Hi,

Sorry , lol I realise that but there seems to be so many housing associations with

with the Nibe 360p installations with ongoing probs thought the link maybe of use. Seems to be a nationwide problem.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 8 months later...

I've had a problem with a NIBE 360P heat exchanger for over three years now and still the housing association and NIBE have failed to take action. Various engineers have been around and agreed that these systems do not work, are expensive, noisy and of very little benefit. Yet when their official report is made it's an entirely different story altogether. I'm fed up with being fobbed off, no-one will take responsibility, it is an absolute rip off!!!

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  • 1 year later...

OK Sorry about the seriously late replies. I am cleaning up al of my previous posts. Basically this is what happened. As far as we were able to make out, NIBE systems were not fit for the UK Climate.

 

They worked by sucking the heat out of the wet rooms (Kitchen and bathroom) compressing it and using that heat to heat the hot water and radiators. It did not heat the home properly.

 

The maths was simple. Basically, you can not heat a home from the heat given off by appliances and humans alone. You would have to ue an external source of heat. In failing to realise this the housing association did not take reasonable skill and care in installing a working heating system.

 

We noted the obligations of the housing association to keep in repair and proper working order the installation in the dwelling for space heating and heating of water. As the system was unable to function as intended they could never meet this specification within the landlord and tenant act.

 

We wrote to them and told them we were sueing them within 14 days if it not not get ripped out of our home. We also told them that we were sueing them for the increased costs in electricity as they had failed to take reasonable skill and care in selecting a heating system and as a result we were out of pocket due to huge electricity bills.

 

It was ripped out on day 13!!!!! We Won!!!!!!

:whoo:Debt Paid £9.99 - Unlawful Debt Removed £51.09 - Total Debt Busted £61.08:whoo:

SFUK vs Jacamo / JD Williams - WON

SFUK vs Vanquis Bank - Ongoing

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