Before I start I must say I have missed you guys. After 6 months of no internet I can finally search on my favourite forum again!!!!

OK Here is the crack!

I am a resident in "affordable housing" let to me by the local housing association. I currently have a heating system installed called a NIBE Fighter 360P. This is an Air Source Heat Pump which is using an astronomical amount of electricity (£10 a day). After struggling on with them for months and being fobbed off, I have finally decided to take them to task and go for the jugular. I am quite afaik with consumer credit law but my housing law fails me. Here is information send to the housing assciation.

 

Further to our telephone conversation last week I am writing to you to outline the problems with my NIBE 360 Fighter Boiler which I would like addressed as a formal complaint under the BPHA complaints procedure and the relevant housing legislation.

 

Family Background

Mother has had major lung surgery within the last 2 years (left sided thoracotomy with pleurodesis) and currently has COPD and week lungs.

6 year old child - ADHD, Aspergers, Disabled under joint care of Great Ormond Street Hospital for Children, Bedford Hospital and Addenbrooks Hospital with undiagnosed gastrointestinal problem.

5 year old child - mild asthmatic,

4 year old child - serious asthmatic with acute tonsillitis, history of life threatening pneumonia and very week lungs.

19 month old baby under care of paediatric consultant for failure to thrive.

10 month old baby under care of paediatric consultant for failure to thrive.

 

Main Concerns: NIBE Fighter 360P

Boiler causing extremes of fluctuating temperatures within the family home.

Boiler consistently breaking down causing lack of central heating and hot water.

Boiler using large amounts of electricity despite being set up properly by NIBE engineers.

Boiler failing to heat family home adequately.

Lack of qualified persons to repair the boiler.

Health Concerns as a result of the above.

 

Backround on NIBE

 

NIBE unit has been repaired multiple times by both NIBE engineers and engineers working on behalf of BPHA. E.ON energy monitor connected to home power supply and prepayment meter fitted (after threat of warrant) as family can not afford level of electricity NIBE unit is using. Unit regularly uses in excess of 8-KWH. Approximately £60.00 (minus £5 for debt collection) being paid into meter per week. Nibe unit not heating upstairs adequately at night forcing parents to bring children to lower floors to sleep. Lack of heating making eldest daughter (with acute tonsillitis) extremely unwell.

 

Supporting Information - Delivered by hand no later than Friday 9th December 2011.

 

Letter from GP.

Letter from registered Nurse Anne Salfrais BSc(Hons) BA(Hons) RN.

 

 

If we could arrange a meeting to discuss possible outcomes to resolve these issues then I would be grateful.

 

Any Ideas Anyone?

Hi sf

Landlord is to ensure that the tenants are warm. This is not only a concern but also a legal obligation under section 11 of the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985

“© To keep in repair and proper working order the installation in the dwelling for space heating and heating of water.”

Whilst this legislation does not set out any legal minimum in terms of temperature, keeping tenants warm does make good business sense.

Heres some info:- http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_PTL_DOMHEAT.pdf

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/70/section/11

http://www.housing-ombudsman.org.uk/

thankyou for your response. I have made an SAR and FOI request. Can you see if i have missed anything.

Dear Sir / Madam

 

We are exorcising our right under the Data Protection Act 1998 for a full copy of all of the data you hold on us from 1st February 2010. Please send the following information within the time scale alloted by statute:

 

1. Copies of all notes on the account for the above adddress.

2. Copies of repairs, jobs booked and appointments scheduled or previously scheduled for work at the above property.

3. Any notes regarding the NIBE Fighter 360P installed in our property.

4. Copies of the tenancy agreement and any subsequent ammendments.

5. Copies of any court paperwork issued against us and the outcome.

6. Copies of any notes from visits by BPHA staff and the outcomes.

7. Copies of any complaints made by us and the outcomes.

8. Notes regarding all conversations between myself or my partner and bpha staff.

9. Emails from us to bpha and the response.

10. Any other personal data.

 

Where any information has been deleted, modified, removed or required manual intervention, please specifty what information and how it was altered.

 

 

We are also exorcising our rights under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

 

Please provide the following information you have on the NIBE Fighter 360P Air Source Heat Pumps installed throughout BPHA homes.

 

1. How many units are installed throughout the entire BPHA Stock.

2. How many complaints have been made about these units.

3. Do the housing association consider these units to be energy efficient and if so on what grounds are they basing their consideration.

4. Do the housing association accept that the NIBE Fighter 360P uses a reasonable amount of electricity.

5. Do the housing association have any plans to replace these units in the near future and if so, what is the status of this planning.

6. What steps did the housing association take to ensure that these units would not cause undue distress and fuel poverty to tenants before allowing them to be installed.

Hi sf

Sounds good.

Hi sfuk

Right it a Housing Association you are doing the right thing in what you are asking for of the housing association in your request.

1. When you moved into the property were you given a manual for the boiler and instructions for operating the boiler? (if not here is a link to the manual pdf file FIGHTER 360P http://www.nibeonline.com/pdf/411482-1.pdf).

2. When the housing association maintenance policy on the boilers?

3. How many times have they been called out to repair the boiler?

4. Are other Tenants having the same kind of issue as yourself?

Something to consider asking the housing association due to all this to get the actual manufacturer to inspect the system.

Thanks. I have them coming out this evening so ill post back and let you know the outcome of the meeting. Ill serve the letteron them as well.

Interesting as our housing association want to replace our existing storage heaters with the air source heat pump and we certainly do not want to be paying £10 a day!

Hi...We have these systems in our new build HA homes....we are in St Neots near Bedford...also another estate (same HA) has them installed....we are having huge problems and bills....we have now gone to houisng ombudsman to resolve as we are connected to gas so should not have has electric boilers put in....

We have a facebook page called NIBE BOILER PROBLEMS..

.the systems are only about 210% efficent if in the correct conditions but dont be confused with someone saying a gas boiler is only 90% effcient as gas is 3 to 4 time cheaper and produce 2.94 times LESS CO2 than electricity so is greener ...which means the NIBE would have to be a constant 300 to 350% effcient to even match gas.......its a huge con........

OK

Have started the Nibe Boiler Problems Wixams group on facebook. I have a few questions?

Is having an adequate heating system an implied term of a tenancy agreement and is there any case law to back this up?

Is a unit that costs 4 times more then its most expensive rival legal?

Are there any cases that establish in law how hot a home should be or how much these units should cost?

Hi sfuk

Something else you could do is write to the housing association and also request copies of all Board Minutes from idea of this system to the Board Approving this system for installation to the properties. This way you will be able to see if any discussion to place on the potential impact to tenants due to high electricity cost.

Or you could just request in writing all information relating to this system and the breakdown of the potentila cost to tenants that was given to the Board for the Board to approve this system.

What also helps in cirumstances like this is rather than one person complaining about this more are better and even getting a petition signed by all tenants affected and handed into the Association will help you fight.

This thread is 18 month old, dma

This thread is 18 month old, dma

Hi,

Sorry , lol I realise that but there seems to be so many housing associations with

with the Nibe 360p installations with ongoing probs thought the link maybe of use. Seems to be a nationwide problem.

Interesting to see the same problems are still there, shown tonight on BBC ! The one show..

Some woman in tears over the costs, Very sad situation.

I've had a problem with a NIBE 360P heat exchanger for over three years now and still the housing association and NIBE have failed to take action. Various engineers have been around and agreed that these systems do not work, are expensive, noisy and of very little benefit. Yet when their official report is made it's an entirely different story altogether. I'm fed up with being fobbed off, no-one will take responsibility, it is an absolute rip off!!!

OK Sorry about the seriously late replies. I am cleaning up al of my previous posts. Basically this is what happened. As far as we were able to make out, NIBE systems were not fit for the UK Climate.

They worked by sucking the heat out of the wet rooms (Kitchen and bathroom) compressing it and using that heat to heat the hot water and radiators. It did not heat the home properly.

The maths was simple. Basically, you can not heat a home from the heat given off by appliances and humans alone. You would have to ue an external source of heat. In failing to realise this the housing association did not take reasonable skill and care in installing a working heating system.

We noted the obligations of the housing association to keep in repair and proper working order the installation in the dwelling for space heating and heating of water. As the system was unable to function as intended they could never meet this specification within the landlord and tenant act.

We wrote to them and told them we were sueing them within 14 days if it not not get ripped out of our home. We also told them that we were sueing them for the increased costs in electricity as they had failed to take reasonable skill and care in selecting a heating system and as a result we were out of pocket due to huge electricity bills.

It was ripped out on day 13!!!!! We Won!!!!!!