Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder sfuk Novitiate sfuk's Avatar

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    Default Heating Issue -Housing Association

    Before I start I must say I have missed you guys. After 6 months of no internet I can finally search on my favourite forum again!!!!

    OK Here is the crack!

    I am a resident in "affordable housing" let to me by the local housing association. I currently have a heating system installed called a NIBE Fighter 360P. This is an Air Source Heat Pump which is using an astronomical amount of electricity (10 a day). After struggling on with them for months and being fobbed off, I have finally decided to take them to task and go for the jugular. I am quite afaik with consumer crediticon law but my housing law fails me. Here is information send to the housing assciation.


    Further to our telephone conversation last week I am writing to you to outline the problems with my NIBE 360 Fighter Boiler which I would like addressed as a formal complaint under the BPHA complaints procedure and the relevant housing legislation.

    Family Background
    Mother has had major lung surgery within the last 2 years (left sided thoracotomy with pleurodesis) and currently has COPD and week lungs.
    6 year old child - ADHD, Aspergers, Disabled under joint care of Great Ormond Street Hospital for Children, Bedford Hospital and Addenbrooks Hospital with undiagnosed gastrointestinal problem.
    5 year old child - mild asthmatic,
    4 year old child - serious asthmatic with acute tonsillitis, history of life threatening pneumonia and very week lungs.
    19 month old baby under care of paediatric consultant for failure to thrive.
    10 month old baby under care of paediatric consultant for failure to thrive.

    Main Concerns: NIBE Fighter 360P
    Boiler causing extremes of fluctuating temperatures within the family home.
    Boiler consistently breaking down causing lack of central heating and hot water.
    Boiler using large amounts of electricity despite being set up properly by NIBE engineers.
    Boiler failing to heat family home adequately.
    Lack of qualified persons to repair the boiler.
    Health Concerns as a result of the above.

    Backround on NIBE

    NIBE unit has been repaired multiple times by both NIBE engineers and engineers working on behalf of BPHA. E.ON energy monitor connected to home power supply and prepayment meter fitted (after threat of warrant) as family can not afford level of electricity NIBE unit is using. Unit regularly uses in excess of 8-KWH. Approximately 60.00 (minus 5 for debt collectionicon) being paid into meter per week. Nibe unit not heating upstairs adequately at night forcing parents to bring children to lower floors to sleep. Lack of heating making eldest daughter (with acute tonsillitis) extremely unwell.

    Supporting Information - Delivered by hand no later than Friday 9th December 2011.

    Letter from GP.
    Letter from registered Nurse Anne Salfrais BSc(Hons) BA(Hons) RN.


    If we could arrange a meeting to discuss possible outcomes to resolve these issues then I would be grateful.
    Any Ideas Anyone?

    sfuk - A dragonball Z Fan.
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  2. #2
    Site Team rebel11 Authoritative rebel11 Authoritative rebel11 Authoritative rebel11 Authoritative rebel11 Authoritative rebel11 Authoritative rebel11 Authoritative rebel11 Authoritative rebel11 Authoritative rebel11 Authoritative rebel11 Authoritative

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    Default Re: Heating Issue -Housing Association

    Hi sf

    Landlord is to ensure that the tenants are warm. This is not only a concern but also a legal obligation under section 11 of the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985

    “(c) To keep in repair and proper working order the installation in the dwelling for space heating and heating of water.”

    Whilst this legislation does not set out any legal minimum in terms of temperature, keeping tenants warm does make good business sense.

    Heres some info:- http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...bad_conditions
    http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...TL_DOMHEAT.pdf
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/70/section/11

    http://www.housing-ombudsman.org.uk/

    Welcome to Consumer Action Group

    'Challenges are what makes life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful.'
    Joshua J. Marine

    1) CLAIM BACK ALL PENALTY CHARGES CLICK HERE
    2) CLAIM BACK ALL MIS-SOLD PPI CLICK HERE
    3) COMPOUNDED CONTRACTUAL INTEREST CLICK HERE
    4) REQUEST CCA FROM CREDITOR CLICK HERE
    5) OFT- UNENFORCEABLE AGREEMENTS CLICK HERE
    6) CAREY V HSBC (2009) CLICK HERE
    7) DON'T BE BULLIED BY CREDITORS / DCA's CLICK HERE
    8) IN DEBT DON'T PANIC CLICK HERE
    9) FULL AND FINAL SETTLEMENT CLICK HERE
    10) SALE OF GOODS ACT-EDUCATE YOUR RETAILER CLICK HERE
    11) DISTANCE SELLING-EDUCATE YOR RETAILER
    CLICK HERE
    12)
    SOGA SUMMARY CLICK HERE
    13) WHICH? TEMPLATES CLICK HERE
    14) DOES YOU BANK TREAT YOU FAIRLY BCOBSCLICK HERE
    15) EVERYTHING HOUSING CLICK HERE
    16) UTILITY BACKBILLING CLICK HERE
    17) OFGEM - COMPLAINTSCLICK HERE
    18) OFCOM - COMPLAINTS CLICK HERE

    DON'T GIVE UP, THIS SITE WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH GUIDANCE AND EMPOWERMENT

    Don't forget to donate to this site

    Please let us know how your problem has been resolved, it could help fellow Caggers


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  3. #3
    Basic Account Holder sfuk Novitiate sfuk's Avatar

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    Default Re: Heating Issue -Housing Association

    thankyou for your response. I have made an SARicon and FOI request. Can you see if i have missed anything.

    Dear Sir / Madam

    We are exorcising our right under the Data Protection Act 1998 for a full copy of all of the data you hold on us from 1st February 2010. Please send the following information within the time scale alloted by statute:

    1. Copies of all notes on the account for the above adddress.
    2. Copies of repairs, jobs booked and appointments scheduled or previously scheduled for work at the above property.
    3. Any notes regarding the NIBE Fighter 360P installed in our property.
    4. Copies of the tenancy agreement and any subsequent ammendments.
    5. Copies of any court paperwork issued against us and the outcome.
    6. Copies of any notes from visits by BPHA staff and the outcomes.
    7. Copies of any complaints made by us and the outcomes.
    8. Notes regarding all conversations between myself or my partner and bpha staff.
    9. Emails from us to bpha and the response.
    10. Any other personal dataicon.

    Where any information has been deleted, modified, removed or required manual intervention, please specifty what information and how it was altered.


    We are also exorcising our rights under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

    Please provide the following information you have on the NIBE Fighter 360P Air Source Heat Pumps installed throughout BPHA homes.

    1. How many units are installed throughout the entire BPHA Stock.
    2. How many complaints have been made about these units.
    3. Do the housing association consider these units to be energy efficient and if so on what grounds are they basing their consideration.
    4. Do the housing association accept that the NIBE Fighter 360P uses a reasonable amount of electricity.
    5. Do the housing association have any plans to replace these units in the near future and if so, what is the status of this planning.
    6. What steps did the housing association take to ensure that these units would not cause undue distress and fuel poverty to tenants before allowing them to be installed.


    sfuk - A dragonball Z Fan.
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    Default Re: Heating Issue -Housing Association

    Hi sf

    Sounds good.

    Welcome to Consumer Action Group

    'Challenges are what makes life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful.'
    Joshua J. Marine

    1) CLAIM BACK ALL PENALTY CHARGES CLICK HERE
    2) CLAIM BACK ALL MIS-SOLD PPI CLICK HERE
    3) COMPOUNDED CONTRACTUAL INTEREST CLICK HERE
    4) REQUEST CCA FROM CREDITOR CLICK HERE
    5) OFT- UNENFORCEABLE AGREEMENTS CLICK HERE
    6) CAREY V HSBC (2009) CLICK HERE
    7) DON'T BE BULLIED BY CREDITORS / DCA's CLICK HERE
    8) IN DEBT DON'T PANIC CLICK HERE
    9) FULL AND FINAL SETTLEMENT CLICK HERE
    10) SALE OF GOODS ACT-EDUCATE YOUR RETAILER CLICK HERE
    11) DISTANCE SELLING-EDUCATE YOR RETAILER
    CLICK HERE
    12)
    SOGA SUMMARY CLICK HERE
    13) WHICH? TEMPLATES CLICK HERE
    14) DOES YOU BANK TREAT YOU FAIRLY BCOBSCLICK HERE
    15) EVERYTHING HOUSING CLICK HERE
    16) UTILITY BACKBILLING CLICK HERE
    17) OFGEM - COMPLAINTSCLICK HERE
    18) OFCOM - COMPLAINTS CLICK HERE

    DON'T GIVE UP, THIS SITE WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH GUIDANCE AND EMPOWERMENT

    Don't forget to donate to this site

    Please let us know how your problem has been resolved, it could help fellow Caggers


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  5. #5
    Site Team stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007's Avatar

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    Default Re: Heating Issue -Housing Association

    Hi sfuk

    Right it a Housing Association you are doing the right thing in what you are asking for of the housing association in your request.

    1. When you moved into the property were you given a manual for the boiler and instructions for operating the boiler? (if not here is a link to the manual pdf file FIGHTER 360P http://www.nibeonline.com/pdf/411482-1.pdf).
    2. When the housing association maintenance policy on the boilers?
    3. How many times have they been called out to repair the boiler?
    4. Are other Tenants having the same kind of issue as yourself?

    Something to consider asking the housing association due to all this to get the actual manufacturer to inspect the system.


  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder sfuk Novitiate sfuk's Avatar

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    Default Re: Heating Issue -Housing Association

    Thanks. I have them coming out this evening so ill post back and let you know the outcome of the meeting. Ill serve the letteron them as well.

    sfuk - A dragonball Z Fan.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Heating Issue -Housing Association

    Interesting as our housing association want to replace our existing storage heaters with the air source heat pump and we certainly do not want to be paying 10 a day!


  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder nibeboilerproblems Novitiate

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    Default Re: Heating Issue -Housing Association

    Hi...We have these systems in our new build HA homes....we are in St Neots near Bedford...also another estate (same HA) has them installed....we are having huge problems and bills....we have now gone to houisng Ombudsmanicon to resolve as we are connected to gas so should not have has electric boilers put in....
    We have a facebook page called NIBE BOILER PROBLEMS..

    .the systems are only about 210% efficent if in the correct conditions but dont be confused with someone saying a gas boiler is only 90% effcient as gas is 3 to 4 time cheaper and produce 2.94 times LESS CO2 than electricity so is greener ...which means the NIBE would have to be a constant 300 to 350% effcient to even match gas.......its a huge con........


  9. #9
    Basic Account Holder sfuk Novitiate sfuk's Avatar

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    Default Re: Heating Issue -Housing Association

    OK

    Have started the Nibe Boiler Problems Wixams group on facebook. I have a few questions?

    Is having an adequate heating system an implied term of a tenancy agreement and is there any case law to back this up?
    Is a unit that costs 4 times more then its most expensive rival legal?

    Are there any cases that establish in law how hot a home should be or how much these units should cost?

    sfuk - A dragonball Z Fan.
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  10. #10
    Site Team stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007 Authoritative stu007's Avatar

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    Default Re: Heating Issue -Housing Association

    Hi sfuk

    Something else you could do is write to the housing association and also request copies of all Board Minutes from idea of this system to the Board Approving this system for installation to the properties. This way you will be able to see if any discussion to place on the potential impact to tenants due to high electricity cost.

    Or you could just request in writing all information relating to this system and the breakdown of the potentila cost to tenants that was given to the Board for the Board to approve this system.

    What also helps in cirumstances like this is rather than one person complaining about this more are better and even getting a petition signed by all tenants affected and handed into the Association will help you fight.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Heating Issue -Housing Association

    This thread is 18 month old, dma


  12. #12
    Basic Account Holder dima Novitiate

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mariner51 View Post
    This thread is 18 month old, dma
    Hi,
    Sorry , lol I realise that but there seems to be so many housing associations with
    with the Nibe 360p installations with ongoing probs thought the link maybe of use. Seems to be a Nationwideicon problem.


  13. #13
    Basic Account Holder nigel_bytes Novitiate

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    Default Re: Heating Issue -Housing Association

    Interesting to see the same problems are still there, shown tonight on BBC ! The one show..
    Some woman in tears over the costs, Very sad situation.


  14. #14
    Basic Account Holder Didinator Novitiate

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    Default Re: Heating Issue -Housing Association

    I've had a problem with a NIBE 360P heat exchanger for over three years now and still the housing association and NIBE have failed to take action. Various engineers have been around and agreed that these systems do not work, are expensive, noisy and of very little benefit. Yet when their official report is made it's an entirely different story altogether. I'm fed up with being fobbed off, no-one will take responsibility, it is an absolute rip off!!!



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