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I have just discovered from reading 'Smith v Lloyds TSB' that s68 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (in force from 1.1.05), according to Mr Justice Laddie, was written with the purpose of :
"ensuring that unstructured manual records held by public authorities are caught by the 1998 DPA Act"
In other words the FOI Act anticipated institutions using the 'unstructured filing system' argument as a way of avoiding their responsibilities under the DPA Act.
My point is if Barclaycard continue to insist that their microfiche is indeed 'unstructured' and therefore not a 'relevant filing system' (in their words information is held by date, but not by reference to customer name or account number etc), surely we should be able to simply refer to the Freedom of Information Act in conjunction with our DPA / SAR requests?
Is this something that we should be doing? and would it make any difference to their arguments? :?
Morris v Halifax
Data Protection Act letter sent 20/6
Charge deducted from account 27/6
6 yrs statements received 25/8
Prelim sent 30/8 (£1014 charges + £156.11 interest).
Std reply & complaints leaflet received 5/9
Offer received £70 9/9
LBA sent 12/9
No reply to LBA - MCOL requested 26/9
Offer received 26/9 - £218.
MCOL issued 26/9, acknowledged 29/9
Offer 29/9 - full amount ex. o/draft interest
Accepted as partial
Credited to account 12/10
AQ sent for rest Morris1 v Barclaycard
Prelim letter sent 31/8 (£60 charges + interest).
Standard reply 9/9
Offer 12/9 - full amount!! Morris 2 v Barclaycard (Mrsbass!):
Data Protection Act letter sent 7/9
Standard reply received 19/9 inc statements 5/04 to date and microfiche bilge.
Prelim 20/9 £100+interest actual, +same estimated.
LBA 3/10
Partial offer £48 6/10
I understand your point, but unfortunately as the FOI only applies to the Public sector, I dont think this will help.
As the courts are repeatedly interpretating the DPA in favour of powerful organisations they are effectively giving them carte blanche to circumvent the very essence of the DPA 1998.
I understand the UK's narrow interpretation of the directive is still under investigation by the EU Commission. Under FOI I requested info from DCA regarding this in January 2005. My request was refused, meanwhile details of EU's concerns are being kept as a closely guarded secret
I have just spoken to the ICO and in particular a memebr of the team that will be visiting Barclaycard on or around the 19th October 2006 to investigate whether the system is relevant or not.
After the evidence we sent to the ICO about Abbey I feel it would definitely be worthwhile supplying anything we can, that indicates how the Barclaycard microfiche system operates and why it is relevant.
althoug I havent had it confirmed I believe that the information supplied by us has been useful to the ICO and at the vey least, has made the question that much harder for them to resolve than either they, or the Abbey thought.
Re Barclaycard, I have been told about printouts provided to forum members on what is described as 'fanfold' paper.
If anyone has such a thing in their possession and would be prepared to let me have a copy of it, then I will forward it on to the relevant person at the ICO.
They are interested and would like to see this info if we can provide it.
If anyone can help then please drop me a pm.
Regards
Glenn
Kick the shAbbey Habit
Where were you? Next time please
Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless
Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07 Barclaycard - Settled cheque received
Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07 Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07
GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty
MBNA - Settled in Full
GE Capital (1st National) Settled
Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07
MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here Glenn Vs MBNA
That isnt how the act works, it applies to data held on relevant filing systems. if you hold data thats not on a relevant filing system you dont because of the DPA have to make it a relevant system.
The basic thrust of the legislation is to make information about people that can be easily manipulated safe from misuse.
HTH
glenn
Kick the shAbbey Habit
Where were you? Next time please
Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless
Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07 Barclaycard - Settled cheque received
Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07 Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07
GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty
MBNA - Settled in Full
GE Capital (1st National) Settled
Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07
MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here Glenn Vs MBNA
Great news about the visit - somebody actually getting in there and seeing this 'filing' system is just what's needed. I simply don't believe their claims that the information is copied onto microfiche in no order whatsoever.
We have payroll data (payslips for thousands of people) on microfiche, and its a sheet for each payroll for each month. But within each sheet, they are in payroll number order.
On that basis I would expect their data to be stored at least in date order (they've admitted this), but also either in surname or account number order.
Otherwise it would take them forever to find a statement - and at £3 a pop it can't be taking them that long. I do pity that trainee whose job it is to retrieve the info for us though
Morris v Halifax
Data Protection Act letter sent 20/6
Charge deducted from account 27/6
6 yrs statements received 25/8
Prelim sent 30/8 (£1014 charges + £156.11 interest).
Std reply & complaints leaflet received 5/9
Offer received £70 9/9
LBA sent 12/9
No reply to LBA - MCOL requested 26/9
Offer received 26/9 - £218.
MCOL issued 26/9, acknowledged 29/9
Offer 29/9 - full amount ex. o/draft interest
Accepted as partial
Credited to account 12/10
AQ sent for rest Morris1 v Barclaycard
Prelim letter sent 31/8 (£60 charges + interest).
Standard reply 9/9
Offer 12/9 - full amount!! Morris 2 v Barclaycard (Mrsbass!):
Data Protection Act letter sent 7/9
Standard reply received 19/9 inc statements 5/04 to date and microfiche bilge.
Prelim 20/9 £100+interest actual, +same estimated.
LBA 3/10
Partial offer £48 6/10
Re Barclaycard, I have been told about printouts provided to forum members on what is described as 'fanfold' paper.
If anyone has such a thing in their possession and would be prepared to let me have a copy of it, then I will forward it on to the relevant person at the Information Commissioners Office.
Glen, I have the "fanfolds" as well as some photocopies of the "microfiche" format (clearly showing name, adress, account number, and probably inside leg measurement!)
Apologies to people who I was in the process of helping, I may be gone some time.
In my younger days I worked for a building society now bank, and know for a fact that the microfiche was logged in account order, then under each it showed the name and address and account transactions, each branch were sent the relevant mircofiche for their accounts (accounts opened at their branch).
A simialr set up is probably in operation at Barclays
Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless
Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07 Barclaycard - Settled cheque received
Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07 Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07
GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty
MBNA - Settled in Full
GE Capital (1st National) Settled
Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07
MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here Glenn Vs MBNA
Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless
Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07 Barclaycard - Settled cheque received
Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07 Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07
GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty
MBNA - Settled in Full
GE Capital (1st National) Settled
Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07
MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here Glenn Vs MBNA
In my younger days I worked for a building society now bank, and know for a fact that the microfiche was logged in account order, then under each it showed the name and address and account transactions, each branch were sent the relevant mircofiche for their accounts (accounts opened at their branch).
A simialr set up is probably in operation at Barclays
Liz
Are you able r willing to tell me any more about whos system this was ?
Glenn
Kick the shAbbey Habit
Where were you? Next time please
Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless
Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07 Barclaycard - Settled cheque received
Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07 Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07
GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty
MBNA - Settled in Full
GE Capital (1st National) Settled
Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07
MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here Glenn Vs MBNA
Basically the Act tries to make sure that data that is held on computer systems cannot be misused.
So if you have personal data on a computer you have to abide by some principles.
Now there are of course manual files which can also be searched and manipulated, processed in the DPA jargon, which are covered too if they can manipulated (read processed) in a similar way to a computer.
Tha Act doesnt make the persons controlling the data hold it on what they call a 'relevant filing system'.
What it does, is make those controlling data on a relevant filign system abide by the principles of the DPA.
Does that make more sense?
Glenn
Kick the shAbbey Habit
Where were you? Next time please
Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless
Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07 Barclaycard - Settled cheque received
Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07 Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07
GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty
MBNA - Settled in Full
GE Capital (1st National) Settled
Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07
MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here Glenn Vs MBNA
Morris v Halifax
Data Protection Act letter sent 20/6
Charge deducted from account 27/6
6 yrs statements received 25/8
Prelim sent 30/8 (£1014 charges + £156.11 interest).
Std reply & complaints leaflet received 5/9
Offer received £70 9/9
LBA sent 12/9
No reply to LBA - MCOL requested 26/9
Offer received 26/9 - £218.
MCOL issued 26/9, acknowledged 29/9
Offer 29/9 - full amount ex. o/draft interest
Accepted as partial
Credited to account 12/10
AQ sent for rest Morris1 v Barclaycard
Prelim letter sent 31/8 (£60 charges + interest).
Standard reply 9/9
Offer 12/9 - full amount!! Morris 2 v Barclaycard (Mrsbass!):
Data Protection Act letter sent 7/9
Standard reply received 19/9 inc statements 5/04 to date and microfiche bilge.
Prelim 20/9 £100+interest actual, +same estimated.
LBA 3/10
Partial offer £48 6/10
Microfiche - Legal Questions
TSB' that s68 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (in force from 1.1.05), according to Mr Justice Laddie, was written with the purpose of :
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Originally Posted by LIZHAJI
