Hi Rachel

I've just come across your post and am in a similar situation. I returned from holiday and found that I'd been burgled. All my jewellery gone and various other items!! I'm insured with the Halifax too, and they are saying they will not pay out as there is not evidence of forcible and violent entry or exit for the house. The police have investigated and said there is some evidence (scratched around the window frame)...but I just wondered how things went with your claim....did they pay out in the end?

Hi angie

Welcome to CAG

The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available.

You've got your thread.

If your house is self contained and lived in by family only as their permanent residence it is worth making a complaint, taking it to the FOS if necessary. Halifax have up to 8 weeks to resolve your complaint and if they can't then the FOS will look into it for you.

Do your research. Many burglaries are now carried out, without there being any signs of forced entry/exit from a property. Take a visit to Youtube and search for lock bumping. If this is a possible explanation, then you may be successful with any complaint and therefore the claim might be paid. I don't think there would be any visable signs of the lock being damaged by such a method, but if there was no negligence on your part i.e. leaving the door unlocked, I can't see the FOS being happy with the Halifax just declining the claim.

You can replace the locks with anti-bump locks, which I would certainly recommend that you do. Keep the old locks, just in case you need to have them looked at.

Hi angie

Good advice from UB, here are some tips on a Formal Letter of Complaint, send it Recorded:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1242161/How--write-letter-complaint.html

The key is in the violent part wording. Force is one thing, regarless of how it happened- from as simple as (i'm not suggesting, just offering an example) a key being left in the lock turned, an unlocked door handle being opened. Apart from walking in through an already open door, wide enough to get in and out without moving it or similar, force is almost always a factor in thefts. The policy asks that both occured for you to be covered.

You have to find a way to demostrate that violence was a factor in what happened, you have to demonstrate that it wasn't an unlocked door, or window which they could open, climb through, whatever, without having to smash or break in some sort of violent way.

Good luck.

The key is in the violent part wording. Force is one thing, regarless of how it happened- from as simple as (i'm not suggesting, just offering an example) a key being left in the lock turned, an unlocked door handle being opened. Apart from walking in through an already open door, wide enough to get in and out without moving it or similar, force is almost always a factor in thefts. The policy asks that both occured for you to be covered.

You have to find a way to demostrate that violence was a factor in what happened, you have to demonstrate that it wasn't an unlocked door, or window which they could open, climb through, whatever, without having to smash or break in some sort of violent way.

Good luck.

So are you saying that people who are subject to lock bumping are not covered. There would be no signs of forcible and/or violent entry in such cases.

Yep, there is still no sign of violence. No sign of force either, which makes it worse, but it should be accepted that force is an element in all cases unless the police report states otherwise.

If the policy says force or violence rather than force and violence, then you can use just the force part, but the op is stating both are required by insurers (which is the common term these days).

9 Theft or attempted theft.

Relevant exclusion

Loss or damage caused while you and your family are away

from your home unless force and violence is used to get into

or out of your home.

So yes it would appear that Halifax will not cover you if you have a lock picked or bumped. Think if anyone reading this thread is covered by Halifax, they should look for alternative policies at renewal time. There are companies who only restrict the theft cover to forcible/violent entry/exit when the house is lent, let or sub let. Or upgrade your security to locks that cannot be picked or bumped.

For the OP or anyone who gets a claim rejected due to the above, they should make a complaint and take it to the FOS if necessary.

I've had so much help on here I thought I'd look in on this forum to see if I could help in an way, as I work in insurance.

Unfortunately, I do not think that what I am about to say is going to go down very well. I don't work for a household insurer, but our policies all exclude theft unless following forcible and/or violent entry/exit. I don't think it'll just be Halifax, think it would be extremely unusual for this exclusion not to apply.

Even working for an insurance company doesn't make you insurance proof, as we found out recently with our own household insurance legal protection policy. Also, one of the company cars at work was recently stolen and the last I heard, the claim was being declined under the forcible and/or violent entry/exit exclusion!!!

No not all policies ask for this, my own for example, if I delcared I had a 3 point locking system and locks on every downstrairs window would have the force violent wording applied.

Knowing how this works, I asked if the can state I don't have locks (I do), the exlucusion was not put in at no extra cost.

However the FOS view these endorsements as significant policy terms, they don't flex very well on this point.

Lock picking/bumping is an interesting thought, in my experience not common at all, but still a good point raised.

never heard of lock bumping ill have to look up a bump key to add to the collection (never used just intresting)

Lock bumping is very prevelant in some parts of the country with both the tools and information easily available on the internet.I personally Know of multiple break ins on the same street where the police have confirmed this is the cause of entry.The only way to know for sure is for a forensic locksmith to study the locks for the telltale signs of this type of entry.

I fit these locks on a daily basis and probably 90% or more are not anti-pick,anti-bump,anti-drill even the locks fitted on most new doors do not comply to this specification and so probably most of the country are not insured if the policy required violence or forced entry.

With regards to the insurance companies they usually state that a lock with a minimum of 5 levers (or pins in this case are fitted to both front and rear doors) and usually locks are fitted to all accessible windows,if the insured has complied with this then they should pay out but you would have to prove the locks had been bumped.