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    • They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location
    • My defence was standard no paperwork:   1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited. 5. On the 02/01/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the 19/05/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is yet to respond. To date, 02/06/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request. 6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974 (c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Monika the first four pages of the Private parking section have at least 12 of our members who have also been caught out on this scam site. That's around one quarter of all our current complaints. Usually we might expect two current complaints for the same park within 4 pages.  So you are in good company and have done well in appealing to McDonalds in an effort to resolve the matter without having  paid such a bunch of rogues. Most people blindly pay up. Met . Starbucks and McDonalds  are well aware of the situation and seem unwilling to make it easier for motorists to avoid getting caught. For instance, instead of photographing you, if they were honest and wanted you  to continue using their services again, they would have said "Excuse me but if you are going to go to Mc donalds from here, it will cost you £100." But no they kett quiet and are now pursuing you for probably a lot more than £100 now. They also know thst  they cannot charge anything over the amount stated on the car park signs. Their claims for £160 or £170 are unlawful yet so many pay that to avoid going to Court. When the truth is that Met are unlikely to take them to Court since they know they will lose. The PCNs are issued on airport land which is covered by Byelaws so only the driver can be pursued, not the keeper. But they keep writing to you as they do not know who was driving unless you gave it away when you appealed. Even if they know you were driving they should still lose in Court for several reasons. The reason we ask you to fill out our questionnaire is to help you if MET do decide to take you to Court in the end. Each member who visited the park may well have different experiences while there which can help when filling out a Witness statement [we will help you with that if it comes to it.] if you have thrown away the original PCN  and other paperwork you obviously haven't got a jerbil or a guinea pig as their paper makes great litter boxes for them.🙂 You can send an SAR to them to get all the information Met have on you to date. Though if you have been to several sites already, you may have done that by now. In the meantime, you will be being bombarded by illiterate debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors all threatening you with ever increasing amounts as well as being hung drawn and quartered. Their letters can all be safely ignored. On the odd chance that you may get a Letter of Claim from them just come back to us and we will get you to send a snotty letter back to them so that they know you are not happy, don't care a fig for their threats and will see them off in Court if they finally have the guts to carry on. If you do have the original PCN could you please post it up, carefully removing your name. address and car registration number but including dates and times. If not just click on the SAR to take you to the form to send to Met.
    • In order for us to help you we require the following information:- [if there are more than one defendant listed - tell us] 1 defendant   Which Court have you received the claim from ? County Court Business Centre, Northampton   Name of the Claimant ? LC Asset 2 S.A R.L   Date of issue – . 28/04/23   Particulars of Claim   What is the claim for –    (1) The Claimant ('C') claims the whole of the outstanding balance due and payable under an agreement referenced xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and opened effective from xx/xx/2017. The agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ('CCA'), was signed by the Defendant ('D') and from which credit was extended to D.   (2) D failed to comply with a Default Notice served pursuant to s87 (1) CCA and by xx/xx/2022 a default was recorded.   (3) As at xx/xx/2022 the Defendant owed MBNA LTD the sum of 12,xxx.xx. By an agreement in writing the benefit of the debt has been legally assigned to C effective xx/xx/2022 and made regular upon C serving a Notice of Assignment upon D shortly thereafter.   (4) And C claims- 1. 12,xxx.xx 2. Interest pursuant to Section 69 County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from xx/01/2023 to xx/04/2023 of 2xx.xx and thereafter at a daily rate of 2.52 to date of judgement or sooner payment. Date xx/xx/2023   What is the total value of the claim? 12k   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes, but amount differs slightly   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. DP issued claim   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not that I recall...   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not that I recall...   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Yes   Why did you cease payments? Loss of employment main cause   What was the date of your last payment? Early 2021   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No   -----------------------------------
    • Hello CAG Team, I'm adding the contents of the claim to this thread, but wanted to open the thread with an urgent question: Do I have to supply a WS for a claim with a court date that states " at the hearing the court will consider allocation and, time permitting, give an early neutral evaluation of the case" ? letter is an N24 General Form of Judgement or Order, if so, then I've messed up again. Court date 25 May 2024 The letter from court does not state (like the other claims I have) that I must provide WS within 28 days.. BUT I have recently received a WS from Link for it! making me think I do need to!??
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Help me please, C2C Rail Prosecution Departement


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Hi there,

 

On June 20th 2011, i was caught without the correct ticket and was spoken to by 2 inspectors who took down my details.

 

I offered to pay and the penalty fare but they said that was not available to me and C2C would write to me.

 

I have very upset and distraught after this as I know I have done wrong.

 

I have been awaiting a letter and I have phoned C2C twice but was told to await a letter as there was a delay and they were short-staffed.

 

Today I received a letter dated 14th July 2011 and it stated 2nd LETTER. I have never received a 1st Letter.

 

They want me to pay £293.50 now by 21st July 2011.

 

i cant pay by then, so i have handwritten a letter to them this morning and handed it into Benfleet Station, stating I have never received the 1st letter,

nor was I offered the chance to pay a penalty fare and if they still want me to pay the £293.50 to allow me until the end of the month at least.

 

They will not accept phone calls, nor will they accept debit cards. Only cheques and postal orders.

 

My bank no longer has cheques books as they were going to be defunct, yet C2C do not accept chqs on the station.

 

I have done wrong, I know, but the amount is high , yet i dont want it to any further, i am willing to pay whatever is required but it is a lot and I have been given less then a week to pay.

 

Is there anything else I can do?

 

Please help, I am deeply stressed and upset.

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Hi there,

 

On June 20th 2011, i was caught without the correct ticket and was spoken to by 2 inspectors who took down my details.

 

I offered to pay and the penalty fare but they said that was not available to me and C2C would write to me.

 

I have very upset and distraught after this as I know I have done wrong.

 

I have been awaiting a letter and I have phoned C2C twice but was told to await a letter as there was a delay and they were short-staffed.

 

Today I received a letter dated 14th July 2011 and it stated 2nd LETTER. I have never received a 1st Letter.

 

They want me to pay £293.50 now by 21st July 2011.

 

i cant pay by then, so i have handwritten a letter to them this morning and handed it into Benfleet Station, stating I have never received the 1st letter,

nor was I offered the chance to pay a penalty fare and if they still want me to pay the £293.50 to allow me until the end of the month at least.

 

They will not accept phone calls, nor will they accept debit cards. Only cheques and postal orders.

 

My bank no longer has cheques books as they were going to be defunct, yet C2C do not accept chqs on the station.

 

I have done wrong, I know, but the amount is high , yet i dont want it to any further, i am willing to pay whatever is required but it is a lot and I have been given less then a week to pay.

 

Is there anything else I can do?

 

Please help, I am deeply stressed and upset.

 

Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to offer a great deal of encouragement I'm afraid. The rail company do not have to offer an

 

Firstly, when a traveller is found to be in breach of the rules, the rail company do not have to allow any opportunity to pay at a later date. If there is sufficient eveidence to suggest that prosecution is warranted, then they may proceed accordingly.

 

You can only write and advise that you did not receive any 'first letter' and ask for a copy of that letter and the right to respond to that before C2C apply any financial penalty.

 

However, there is one thing that I find a little unusual in this one and that is that your post suggests that C2C have immediately offered an opportunity to pay their costs & fares as an alternative to prosecution without having received any representation from the traveller.

 

If you still want to pay, but are unable to do so, perhaps writing the letter that I suggested and once you get the reply to that, send a further letter with a request for delay in order to allow time to pay might help.

 

I suggest that you send your letters by recorded delivery.

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I want to pay and ive been awake all night and i can pay by next Friday,but im very upset that I never got the first letter.I have handed in a letter personally to Benfleet station telling them this yesterday.Its a lot of money, but Its what I deserve and I Just want to get it out of the way.I called a helpline and they 7 days payment is unfair and it should have been 21 days, which I would have accepted as they have stated they want it by post and do not accept debit cards. They also stated the amount they want is high and if went to court, they would get less. I just want to get it clear b4 that stage.If I had received the first letter, I would have paid it by now and moved on and learnt my lesson.Stressed to the eyeballs

Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to offer a great deal of encouragement I'm afraid. The rail company do not have to offer an

 

Firstly, when a traveller is found to be in breach of the rules, the rail company do not have to allow any opportunity to pay at a later date. If there is sufficient eveidence to suggest that prosecution is warranted, then they may proceed accordingly.

 

You can only write and advise that you did not receive any 'first letter' and ask for a copy of that letter and the right to respond to that before C2C apply any financial penalty.

 

However, there is one thing that I find a little unusual in this one and that is that your post suggests that C2C have immediately offered an opportunity to pay their costs & fares as an alternative to prosecution without having received any representation from the traveller.

 

If you still want to pay, but are unable to do so, perhaps writing the letter that I suggested and once you get the reply to that, send a further letter with a request for delay in order to allow time to pay might help.

 

I suggest that you send your letters by recorded delivery.

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Its not clear what exactly you are asking ?. You have been given an offer to settle out of court, which most people would suggest you take, can you not borrow the money somehow ?. If not then a letter explaining your circumstances (why you cant pay, you are unemplyed, ill, etc) and this may have some success.You could of course let it run its legal course which by the sounds of it would end up with a fine, perhaps less than the £290 quoted but would land you with a criminal record, perhspas someone sle can explain the seriousness (or not) of a record obtained in this way ?I'm unaware of any banks that have duiscarded with cheque books completely, I recently obtained one from my main two banks.Andy

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Yes andydd is right, banks will still issue you a cheque-book if you ask, they just tend not to auto-issue them when you cash your fifth-from-last or whatever it used to be.

However if you're brassic then I don't see that cheques etc are really relevant... you can either pay, or not!

 

Bizarre idea handing a letter at Benfleet station pal! I know you're not a millionaire (probably!!!) but couldn't you afford a stamp?

If you handed it in at Benfleet, then it will probably end up in BEIRUT....

 

...i.e, Laindon!!! LOL

:whoo:

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My bank no longer send out Chq books. Benfleet station is where C2c Rail Prosecution is based, thats why i went there. So not silly at all.I have rec'd a further letter stating i can pay now by 31st July - im going to do this, its not worth the hassle and going to court.C2c have lied in the letter and made asumptions which i showed a solictor and they wouldnt get away with it although i have done wrong in the 1st instance and would still get punished.The inspector took old tickets away from me which were used accordingly, I have been told that under no circumstances was the inspector allowed to take these with out BTP involvement as it was nothing to do with these. The fare C2c is totally not relevant to the crime as they have assumed i have done more wrong. I could go to court and fight but i still would end up with a criminal record as i have done wrong on one day only.C2c shouldnt lie or make assumptions on anyone. its not acceptable in 2011. The sooner C2c lose their franchise the better.

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HHmm..Im not sure your rantings are going to help.............C2C have had their franchised extended as they generally provide a good service, its NXEA who are lsoing theirs as their service is below par to say the least.Andy

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The inspector took old tickets away from me which were used accordingly, I have been told that under no circumstances was the inspector allowed to take these with out BTP involvement as it was nothing to do with these.

 

I do not know where you are getting this kind of advice, but that is absolute rubbish. All rail tickets remain the property of the rail company at all times and technically, should be handed in at the end of a journey. Of course there isn't a facility for collection at most stations these days so that condition is pretty well ignored however, used rail tickets may be withdrawn and collected by rail staff. If a traveller needs a receipt to claim expenses, then you can get one at the time of purchase of the ticket.

 

British Transport Police do not need to be involved in questioning or prosecution of these cases at all.

 

If you are being advised by a solicitor that the C2C staff have 'lied' ( your word there), why would you want to pay them anything??

 

In my experience, any Solicitor worth their salt who genuinely believes that to be the case would be suggesting that you pursue the matter vigorously.

 

As Andy pointed out your rant is entirely misplaced, but I hope you feel better for it.

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They are a dreadful network.Sky high fares in proportion to rest of uk and other networks.Overcrowded trains, unclean toilets. uncomfortable seating.Train delays. Rude staff and poor customer service.I have been told by a solictor and other parties that under no circumstances can a rail ticket be used to incriminate against anyone apart from a season ticket after the date has expired, without BTP involvement. I had other tickets on me to/from Benfleet where I worked the previous week. On day in question i worked in London and thats where i went wrong. I purchased a ticket to basildon instead of Barking.For this is have a fine of £293.50 - very high - as C2c have assumed I have committed more offences. I have not.I could go to court to fight this but i have still committed one offence, so i would still end up in trouble.

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Hello again Karl. Is the solicitor [or the other people] advising you a specialist in rail prosecutions? Fwiw, Old-Codja has considerable experience in this and hasn't been wrong AFAIK.

 

Whatever you think of C2C, if they're legally in the right, I suspect there isn't much you can do.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I have been told by a solictor and other parties that under no circumstances can a rail ticket be used to incriminate against anyone apart from a season ticket after the date has expired, without BTP involvement.

 

I'm sorry, but that is complete 'tosh'. If that were the case, I can see many thousands of cases that I and other users of this forum have personal experience of going back before the Courts. That should keep a few people in work for a bit!

 

I had other tickets on me to/from Benfleet where I worked the previous week.

 

They remain the property of the rail company.

 

On day in question i worked in London and thats where i went wrong. I purchased a ticket to basildon instead of Barking.

 

So, it appears that you purchased a ticket for a shorter journey than that you were actually making thereby failing to pay the proper fare due.

 

For this is have a fine of £293.50 - very high - as C2c have assumed I have committed more offences. I have not.

 

No, you have NOT been 'Fined'. Only the Courts have the authority to impose fines. You seem to have been given an opportunity to pay an administrative fee to close the case without Court action. You don't have to take it, you don't have to pay and can have the evidence tested by the Magistrates.

 

I could go to court to fight this but i have still committed one offence, so i would still end up in trouble.

 

Not if you are correct in your assertion that C2C staff have been untruthful in presenting concocted evidence in order to bring about the prosecution. If the Court believed that to be the case you would come away squeaky clean and it would prove extremely expensive and damaging for C2C.

Edited by Old-CodJA
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They are a dreadful network.Sky high fares in proportion to rest of uk and other networks.Overcrowded trains, unclean toilets. uncomfortable seating.Train delays. Rude staff and poor customer service.I have been told by a solictor and other parties that under no circumstances can a rail ticket be used to incriminate against anyone apart from a season ticket after the date has expired, without BTP involvement. I had other tickets on me to/from Benfleet where I worked the previous week. On day in question i worked in London and thats where i went wrong. I purchased a ticket to basildon instead of Barking.For this is have a fine of £293.50 - very high - as C2c have assumed I have committed more offences. I have not.I could go to court to fight this but i have still committed one offence, so i would still end up in trouble.

 

I'm not one to defend railway companies but you really are spouting rubbish, I travel on C2C every day and have myself been prosocuted many years ago for a similar offence. Experts like Old-Codja have told you that your solicitor is spouting rubbish, there doesnt need to be BTP incolvement and its really not clear what you are talking about, ticket inspectors are perfectly entitled to take tickets from you because they remain property of the railway company.

 

Now while C2C are not cheap they compare reasonably well with other companies, a return to London from Westcliff costs me £15.40 whilst a ticket from Prittlewell (NXEA) (actually my nearest station) to London would cost £24.50 so how can you say C2C are the most expensive ?

 

You try and find another localcommuter line that has air con..the seats seem fine to me and whilst I have seen overflowed toilets this is very rare and mostly late at night, as for delayus, they are time and time again the No.1 most punctial line !....having travelled on them for many years, they are not perfect, but their punctiality is quite impressive.

 

As fore rude staff, I certainly have met some rather unhelpful staff but then again Ive been helped by friendly helpful staff, like life, there is a cross section of people !

 

Andy

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Thank you for your replies and i appreciate them. Very helpful and i respect your comments.

 

Thank for your help. I will pay the fine from C2c for fares and admin fee and learn from my experience and never do it again.

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http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/without-prejudice.html

 

Without abandonment of a claim, privilege, or right, and without implying an admission of liability.

 

(1) When used in a document or letter, without prejudice means that what follows (a) cannot be used as evidence in a court case, (b) cannot be taken as the signatory's last word on the subject matter, and © cannot be used as a precedent.

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That applies to Civil Procedures, not criminal offences.

 

 

But surely its meaning its roughly the same whether used in civil or criminal cases ?. It generally means that the enclosed letter isn't definate and cant be used in court of proof of acceptance or an offer, (i.e you cant later say, but C2C offered to drop the case if i paid £x).

 

It can be used for example to make a suggestion of an offer or a settlement without it being a legally binding offer.

 

In (civil) cases the phrase Without Prejudice save as to costs" is often used which is more confusing.

 

In what context has "Without Prejudice" been used ?

 

Andy

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Letter saidWithout pre-judice we will accept payment of £293.50 by 31 st July without further action.and then some jargon as this is up for going to the courts , all correspondence in writing only.

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It seems to me that the best explanation of its meaning in this case is to say that;

 

You had the opportunity to pay the £293.50 by the date shown, or to have the matter heard by a court and that your refusal or failure to make any payment could not be seen as detrimental to any argument you might put in relation to the alleged offence.

 

Having advised you that there was a case that could be taken forward and that a summons could be applied for, you were offered an alternative way of disposing of the matter, but the rail company and court would accept that it was your right to reject that opportunity and have the case heard if you then chose to do so.

 

This would not prejudice your defence in any way.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have paid my fine by Chq as requested for the full amount.However the money is still in my bank account and i have rang my bank and they haven't cashed it.I cant ring C2C.Do i write another letter.I handed it to the station by Hand to the Department on Benfleet station or do i just wait as it can take time.

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I handed it on the 28th july at 5.20pm. I didnt get a receipt as the women just took it and dissapeared and then i saw her hand it too another man and they just talked but I didnt see them open the letter.I handed in at Benfleet station at the Ticket Office as this is the address for it anyway

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