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Buildings insurance problem.


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Buildings insurance problem.

 

I have had my buildings insurance with my mortgage lender for over 20 years. Unfortunately some time ago I needed to make a claim. This has taken many years to rectify and the work was not completed correctly and I have been left with a building that still has problems with more cracks appearing. These were notified to insurers before they closed the claim.

I went to the Ombudsman but it was agreed with them I would withdraw the case as there was not much they could do and this would leave me the option of going to court.

The loss adjusters despite my request not to pay the contractor and surveyor have paid them despite the work not being completed as per the schedule of work. The insurers have now closed the file and refuse to insure me any further.

What can I do? Who would be held accountable for this? I really have no idea what I should do next, has anyone any advise what the next step should be? How can I get insured and how do I get the work completed by the insurers? Help

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What was the cause of the damage to the building ?

 

Have you had a structural engineer come around to inspect the house and to provide a report ?

 

You can reopen the claim anytime within a 6 year period. The Insurers are jointly responsible for contracting the works, so if there are continuing problems, the Insurers have a responsibility to sort out. If they paid the claim, they accepted the cause of the damage was a risk that was covered by your policy and they paid for works to be done. They are therefore responsible for the works, as your Insurance contract was to cover certain perils and for you to be able to claim to have works done to sort out the cause of the damage.

 

Suggest that you contact the Insurers claims department and tell them that you need to reopen the claim, as the contracted work did not resolve the problem. Ask them if they are willing to arrange for an independent structural survey to be carried out. If they refuse, then you will have to obtain your own structural report and then go down the legal route, with the help of a solictor. When you have a dispute with an Insurers, because they can employ a legal team, you are not recommended to take legal action on your own, without the help of a

solicitor.

 

**** edit. If you have a mortgage, don't forget to speak to them. Most mortgage companies will have a technical or legal team, that might look to help. Because they own the house in part, it in their interest where such problems happen to help where they can. ****

 

In regard to obtaining cover, you will probably need to obtain a full structural survey on the house. You could contact Bureau Insurance

services, to see what they say.

Edited by unclebulgaria67

We could do with some help from you.

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Thank you for your response.

The claim was for subsidence.

At the beginning of the claim I instructed a surveyor who without my consent started to act for the insurers. He no longer acting for me independently and started to contradict his own original reports and conversations that caused lots of delays and confusion . He even reduced the schedule of work that was originally agreed. He did not attend the property during the repairs when requested too and attended after wall paper had been replaced. By his own admission there was not enough money to carry out the full repairs and we needed to compromise. I was not adverse to this; however I did expect the main structural repairs to be carried out. His account was settled by the insurers.

 

I guess I need to engage a new surveyor to go through the work done to date. This is going to be expensive and difficult. The insurers will not cover the cost of a new surveyor.

 

 

What about the insurance for the building can the underwriters refuse to insure the property after so many years? and are my mortgage providers responsible to find an underwriter that is prepared to insure the property?

Thank you.

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What about the insurance for the building can the underwriters refuse to insure the property after so many years? and are my mortgage providers responsible to find an underwriter that is prepared to insure the property?

Thank you.

 

Yes Insurers can stop Insuring a property. This is what the ABI say on this.

 

"While insurers cannot guarantee to maintain cover in all circumstances, it is good practice for insurers to work with customers to identify action that might be taken to manage any ongoing risks, wherever possible. "

 

The mortgage company have no responsibility to find another Insurer. They will want to know you have had a subsidence claim and are still having problems. It is not unknown for mortgage companies to try to intervene, particularly when there is a problem with an Insurers they introduced, as part of the mortgage. The mortgage company might even have had an agreement with the Insurers for them to offer continued cover, to houses that have had subsidence claims. You need to raise this with the mortgage companies technical/legal team, not customer services as they will not have a clue.

We could do with some help from you.

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Awkward, your guy has tucked you right up there.

On what basis have the FOS said they can't do much?

 

I suspect that there is a lot more to the story, but I am not encouraging the OP to make a long post. Even if they did, without seeing all the claim papers and policy information, it would be difficult to comment. My instinct tells me that there is a dispute regarding the level of works that were required, which the FOS feel that they could not adequately deal with in a timescale that would be fair on the OP. The FOS could take 2 years to look into the matter, whereas going down the legal route, would resolve the matter either way much more quickly.

We could do with some help from you.

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If you instructed the surveyor and you entered into a contract with him to cat for you then he has acted unproffesionally and you should report him to his professional body for misconduct.

sometimes, well usually the insurance company appoint an engineer or surveyor to inspect and specify the works that need doing, and therefore only do the minimum and pay scant regard of your views.

Thats why it is vital that you get independant advice to fight your corner, and I think thats what you were doing, so you have been mislead big time.

If you appoint your own Loss Assessor ( not adjuster )/Engineer/surveyor they act for you not your insurers; now most insurance companies of repute would take your guys recommedations without reference to their own and just get on with it and pay your proffessionals fees as well.

I would write to the surveyors company MD and ask for an explianation of their action and inform them of a possible negligence claim.

I also agree that you contact your mortgage company to discuss insurers action over this and the fact they will not renew following repairs undertaken to their requirements; makes you wonder why!

I am a structural Engineer and deal with these insurance claims; sometimes acting for loss adjusters and/or homeowners.

Be aware though that only works specifically connected to any subsidence would be covered, no betterment etc.

I have to consider piling, rebuilding parts of buildings/underpining etc all with no problem as long as works properly run and controlled.

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Until we find out more.....

 

 

My spider sense is tingling telling me it's all about the contract between the surveyor and the insured and that they need to go to court or RICS

or whatever professional body. Hence the FOS saying they can't help.

 

Shall we have a sweepstake?

 

 

 

 

 

I know I'm being childish.

Edited by Mwynci
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Thank you i will contact my mortgage lender to see if they can intervene. At one stage they did write saying they would continue to insure the property, but then withdrew this two weeks later without explanation. Thank you for your advise.

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When I went to the FOS I originally took the insurers thinking that they should be untimely responsible for the claim, but it looks as if both parties are (insurers and surveyor) and a ruling could not be made as the surveyor was working for me. Plus there are some large sums of money involved.

My main concern has been the building as this is my main investment and selling is not an option until this is solved. I am trapped and have no alternative but to take this all the way, something I would prefer not to do.

But I agree I have been tucked up.What is worst these are meant to be professional people? But one good thing is I have it all in writing and documented

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Yes there is a lot to the story. Firstly no one would quote on the job due to the budget placed by the insurers, and then when they did they had no alternative but to cut corners and go for a face lift of the property thinking this would get passed me as I was out at work during the day. I guess having a recession in the middle of this did not help. At one stage builders cost across the industry did rocket and the insurers were not will to accept these inflated prices. As it was it took 1 year for the FOS to come on board, I have to say I was gutted with the result and how little they could help.

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Thank you for your advice.

All the comments have helped to point me in the right direction. I will bring a Loss Assessor on board and contact the mortgage lenders to put pressure on the insurers.

As for my so called surveyor I think you are right he dose need to be reported for his part in this.

Once I have the Assessors report I will contact my Solicitors to take action.

Thank you to all for your advise. It is likley to be a long afair and I will try to keep you up to date with the out come. Thank you.

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A sweepstake might not be a bad thing, take my mind off all of this unnecessary stress. But I think you could be right. The FOS was out of their depth on this one.

It is a shame insurers can not be held accountable.

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Shara, fwiw you don't need a lawyer to report a surveyor to the RICS, you can do that part yourself like you did with the fos. There's no point paying fees for something that should be straighforward. I can see you might need a lawyer for the rest of your problem.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Shara, fwiw you don't need a lawyer to report a surveyor to the RICS, you can do that part yourself like you did with the fos. There's no point paying fees for something that should be straighforward. I can see you might need a lawyer for the rest of your problem.

 

My best, HB

 

I agree with this. Only use a solicitor where you need to. I think the current rate is something like £150 per hour.

 

Follow the RICS complaints process and give the surveyor a chance to resolve, without you needing to go the legal route. See linkv. http://www.rics.org/complaints

 

Have a read of any legal expenses cover you may have on your Home Insurance to see what scope it offers. You might not be able to sue the Insurers, but it might help with surveyor or contractors.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thank you for your response, yes you are right I will do this part myself. In fact I will need to do a lot myself and save the big guns for the finish. Thank you, it is very easy to get caught up in issues and sometimes it helps to air things to get a better prospectus on things.

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Sorry to be a pain-

With my surveyor I originally only appointed him to do a survey of the property. I did not go into a contract with him or appoint him to oversee the work- the insurers did that. Am I still able to report him for his part in this?

Also, I have requested a copy of my policy many times from the insurers and the mortgage provider but it has never been forth coming. The FOS also requested it, I asked them to forward me a copy but they have not. I was never given an original copy when I took the insurance out.

Where can I get a copy of the exact worded copy?

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Sorry to be a pain-

With my surveyor I originally only appointed him to do a survey of the property. I did not go into a contract with him or appoint him to oversee the work- the insurers did that. Am I still able to report him for his part in this?

Also, I have requested a copy of my policy many times from the insurers and the mortgage provider but it has never been forth coming. The FOS also requested it, I asked them to forward me a copy but they have not. I was never given an original copy when I took the insurance out.

Where can I get a copy of the exact worded copy?

 

You can only sue over breach of contract. Your contract was purely for a survey, so you can only sue in relation the survey report being inaccurate.

 

However, being that the surveyor was then employed by the Insurers on your behalf, you may still have rights of legal action. It is whether you can use the RICS complaints process, as you did not employ them directly. Ask RICS about this.

 

The Insurers have to supply a copy of the policy documents on request. So make the request. If you have asked before and it has not been forthcoming, make a complaint.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thank you, I will contact RICS for advice.

The FOS and the insurers defence was he was my surveyor even though I had no contract with him. So I will present this to RICS and see what they say.

 

I think it maybe a case of being a square peg tring to fit a round hole, but I will give it my best shot, fingers crossed.

 

Thank you for your time

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Thank you, I will contact RICS for advice.

The FOS and the insurers defence was he was my surveyor even though I had no contract with him. So I will present this to RICS and see what they say.

 

I think it maybe a case of being a square peg tring to fit a round hole, but I will give it my best shot, fingers crossed.

 

Thank you for your time

 

Good luck and please let us know how it goes. I hope you solve your other problems as well.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Sorry about the sweepstake thingy.

 

The issue with the insurers is that you presented your claim via the surveyor, you presented your claim through them as your representative, if they were nothing more, it should be you who alerted the insurer. If they have been allowed to continue (albeit what you thought was reasonable) the claim on your behalf, the insurer's were not to know any different and acted in accordance with the policy. It's hard to see what the insurer did wrong.

Now there may be recourse if payments were made direct to the surveyor and contractors, but it works differently to a case where you as a layman presented an estimate for repairs and the builders screwed up.

I've had no dealings with RICS (assuming this is the right body), I can't tell you what their like.

Best of luck.

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In the surveyors report, he would have made recommendations for what works need to be done; were they?

If any thing was different to his original report, he must justify it.

Although acting for the insurance company he still has a duty of care to you and will be responsable for his actions.

Any changes or 'short cuts' would need to be ok'd by you. Hence you needed a proffessional on your side, such as an assessor or engineer.

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Hi thank you for your response.

I first notified the insurers, but when they started saying things were historic it was clear I needed expert help. I asked a surveyor to give his opinion on the house and his conclusion was subsidence this was approx' 1 year after the claim was made. I then forwarded his report to the insurers. Next thing I knew he was appointed by them. I informed both the insurers and the surveyor that I was not happy with his appointment and have done this throughout the claim yet they continued to work with him and even offered him other work in my company. Apart from his report this was the only instruction I ever gave him, he just injected himself into the claim and forwarded his invoices to the insurers. I have no contract with the surveyor in fact if he was in my employ I would have sacked his.

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I would say that getting a full structural engineers report will be the next step as that will hopefully help you take this forward.

We could do with some help from you.

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