Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
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    Default Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    This is a duplicate post from the Bankruptcy section as one of the site admins said it might be useful to put it here as well.

    Any help or pointers appreciated:

    Some quick background on this, probably not important but does give some history on my interaction with this council.

    In 2006 I was made bankrupt by the local council for unpaid council tax. This was made on the basis of liability orders granted in the local Magistrates Court. The property involved I did not own, do not live in and am not responsible for, yet at some point someone said I was and that was enough for the council to get these orders. Using them they sent all the relevant forms to that address (which obviously I didn't get) and served a bankruptcy petition on someone (who wasn't me) and the local court granted the order.

    I found out, tried to get it annulled but every time I tried the Judge would refuse it and the costs went up.

    The IP then applied for possession of MY house (they couldn't get it on the house the tax should have been paid on as it wasn't in my name, obviously, it's not mine) so after a huge wrangle, and a few days before I was due to be evicted I paid (from an original 2950 debt) over 35,000.

    I have sworn affidavits from the person responsible for the Council Tax that they should have been paying it, and from the person who the Petition was served upon that someone came up, asked if he knew me and when he said yes said "make sure he gets this".

    The amount was paid to get the solicitors out of the equation as all they seemed to do was just add on fees and costs for no reason whatsoever.

    Now to the problem, on THE VERY SAME DAY, that I paid them off the Council had the very same solicitors send an SD for unpaid council tax on a property I do own (and rent out) as they had applied for, and been given liability orders, in my name, for this property.

    I went to the Magistrates Court to ask for them to be contested, I was told that the court don't keep any paperwork for this and only the council themselves can apply for them to be overturned.

    I attended the county courticon to apply for the SD to be set asideicon on the grounds that I was contesting the liability orders, the Judge said that was outside his powers and refused my application (the other side did not attend).

    The tenant in the property has supplied the council with bills, in his name, dating back to 2001, the council will not accept them as they say anyone can put a bill in any name and as there is a shop at the front of the property (totally separate) it could refer to that, even though he has supplied his phone bill, (not for the shop), his gas bill, (the shop doesn't have any), and his "StayWarm" bill, (which you can't get on commercial premises), he has provided them with his rent book, which the council have said could have been made at any time and proves nothing, they have asked him (and I am quoting from a letter they have sent here) "...to present himself at their offices or One Stop Shop with ID such as passport, drivers licence, national insurance number or tax return so that they can be verified..." They have also asked me to do the same as they want to know where I live.

    I have today spoken to the process server, a Mr John Fielden from Arkline, he said that he had attended the property a number of times but was unable to get a reply, eventually he made service by posting the SD through the door. I asked how many times he had been to the property, he stated at least three, including the delivery (I told him I was recording the conversation). I then asked him if he had spoken to anyone at the property at any time, at first he said no, then said that he had asked some men in a shop nearby if I had any connection to the property and they had said yes. I then asked him what he would say if I told him I had statements from those men saying that what he had actually said was "Do you know which one xxx is (the address he claimed tohave been to twice before)" and that he had spent the previous few minutes in and out of the various shops asking for the address and that they had provided me with a copy of their CCTV showing him looking for the address and apparently trying to work out the numbers as he was shown pacing up and down in front of them appearing to count out the doors. He was silent for a while then said that he would make "no comment", I asked if he would be contacting the solicitors to explain that he had not served the papers correctly, he said that he was going on holidayicon today and would contact them on his return, in two weeks .

    The solicitors involved, Drydens, made a petition to the court for a bankruptcy order on 21st April (2011) and the Judge, "upon reading the affidavit of the process server John Fielden" ordered that a sealed copyof the petition be served upon me by First Class Prepaid Post at the address I rent out to my tenant and this would be good service.

    On the 3rd June 2011 Drydens posted the petition to the address, which luckily I warned my tenant to be on the lookout for.

    The case is listed for Tuesday 21st June, which obviously gives me very little time to file a 6.19, or to find a solicitor to represent me (why it took them two weeks to send this to me I can only guess at, but it does leave me at somewhat of a disadvantage).

    I am not responsible for this, my tenant, who has all the bills in his name and is registered to vote here has repeatedly asked the council to transfer liability, but for some reason (I suspect related to the original matter) they refuse to do so and insist that I am liable.

    Ideas of what to do or where to go next would be greatly appreciated.


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    For info;

    Above is posted elsewhere-I suggested it was posted here also,given that this forum frequently sees issues with disputed Council Tax.Any thoughts appreciated.


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    Just suspending my disbelief here but going back to the original petition for bankruptcy for a property you have no interesticon whatsoever, which they obtained; did no one check with the land registry as to the ownership?, also if mortgages were held on properties by yourself, did they not check with the bank/building societies for sight of any title deeds to show any connection? Surely the Receiver would have wanted proof of all property interests so would nave checked.

    Again if your tenant/s has a valid tenancy, rent book and sole occupation subject to the Rent Acts then in law they are liable for CTax, not yourself.

    Something fishy here, looks like the council may be conducting a vendetta against you like Conwy Council against the hapless owner of Colwyn Bay Pier


    What Council is this?

    May well be MP and Ombudsmanicon complaint material, if you haven't already involved them, regarding any tax wrongfully attributed to yourself

    I'm sure others will be along as some lateral thinking regarding the way the CTax was levied, any bailiff actions etc, may be of use somewhere down the line imho


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by brassnecked View Post
    Just suspending my disbelief here but going back to the original petition for bankruptcy for a property you have no interesticon whatsoever, which they obtained; did no one check with the land registry as to the ownership?, also if mortgages were held on properties by yourself, did they not check with the bank/building societies for sight of any title deeds to show any connection? Surely the Receiver would have wanted proof of all property interests so would nave checked.

    Again if your tenant/s has a valid tenancy, rent book and sole occupation subject to the Rent Acts then in law they are liable for CTax, not yourself.

    Something fishy here, looks like the council may be conducting a vendetta against you like Conwy Council against the hapless owner of Colwyn Bay Pier


    What Council is this?

    May well be MP and Ombudsmanicon complaint material, if you haven't already involved them, regarding any tax wrongfully attributed to yourself

    I'm sure others will be along as some lateral thinking regarding the way the CTax was levied, any bailiff actions etc, may be of use somewhere down the line imho
    The property to which they obtained the Bankruptcy order it appears that they didn't do any checks whatsoever, or at least, haven't provided me with any evidence whatsoever that they did anything other than turn up to Magistrates Court with a bundle of papers saying that they had contacted all the people on these forms (the details of which are never given out and the courts keep no list) and that the amounts are owed, the Magistrates Court then grants liability orders and the rest follows.

    The Receiver did make enquiries as to properties I own and/or have mortgaged, the property to which the Council Tax was liable did not form part of this (it's not mine, it belongs to somebody who lives in Wales apparently), but it is not (it would seem) his responsibility to look into the legality of the original debt that created the bankruptcy.

    My tenant has a valid tenancy agreement, the Council have received (several) copies of it, along with a copy of his rent book, these, they claim (along with all the bills in his name, copies of his credit card details, copies of his voters card and one of their representatives actually meeting him at the property), are not enough proof that the tenant lives there.

    I'm probably a little too laid back but I don't like to think that a council (incidentally, its Wirral Borough Council) would conduct a vendetta against someone who provides employment to a number of Wirral residents in various businesses I own in the Borough, but maybe others will see it differently.

    They have messed me around (a lot) over a variety of matters, for example, my daughter (who lived with her mother, my ex wife, until she was 16) needed somewhere to live quite urgently, I had a flat which had been rented out several times and had just become vacant. She moved in there and the council paid her rent (much less than I originally charged). As is the case the rent was paid directly to her, and, being a teenager, she thought she could spend the money and pay everything back the next week, and the next week etc etc. She fell so far behind that I asked the council to pay me. At first they agreed and said it would be on the next payment run, then the circus began. They wanted proof she lived there, and made six separate visits to prove to themselves that she did, they wanted proof that the bills were paid by her, and as one of my shops takes payments via PayZone for water rates (which are in her name and she paid via a payment card, at one of my shops) said that as the payment for the Water Rates came out of my account (the one that paid PayZone for the money we take on their behalf) they considered that I was paying it (wonderful logic).

    They had some wonderful excuses why it took so long to give a answer or to pay on this matter, by far their best was that a senior member of staff a Mrs Kit Chan needed to make the final decision on this and that she was stuck in Singapore due to the Volcanic Ash cloud. After speaking to one of her superiors it later transpires that she has no connection with that department whatsoever, they couldn't understand why anybody would have said that, and that she is in fact the Senior staff member for the Council Tax department that caused all the problems for me with Bankruptcy Orders. (maybe it's not a Council Vendetta, perhaps I've upset someone who works there ?).

    Eventually it took over 10 months for them to arrive at their decision (during which time they paid no rent), which was that as they had taken so long to arrive at their decision and I hadn't evicted my tenant (whom as you will recall is my daughter, something that was made quyite plain to everyone from the first form she filled in), this obviously wasn't a commercial tenancy and therefore she wasn't entitled to rent.

    She has a solicitor dealing with this for her, process is slow.

    I'm going to have to read up on the Pier owners story, it's not one I am familiar with.

    Please not that this matter is now spread over two threads so I may duplicate, or not, some information on the threads apologies for this.


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    Its no problem,once we can get some opinions/guidance together it can be merged,and any double/duplicate posts removed.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    If Mp not involved they should be, especially as Liability Orders seem to be granted willy nilly with no check as to the authenticity of the Councils claim, or indeed that they have billed the correct person. If a DCAicon had done this, they would be severely spanked when it came out they had pursued someone into bankruptcy for a debt they don't owe.. I think the councils hide behind statutory authorities, and the checks and balances are insufficient to pin down officers who at the least are guilty of misfeance in public office imho

    Hope some of the others will give this thread a scan, and see if they can add something.


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by brassnecked View Post
    If Mp not involved they should be, especially as Liability Orders seem to be granted willy nilly with no check as to the authenticity of the Councils claim, or indeed that they have billed the correct person. If a DCAicon had done this, they would be severely spanked when it came out they had pursued someone into bankruptcy for a debt they don't owe.. I think the councils hide behind statutory authorities, and the checks and balances are insufficient to pin down officers who at the least are guilty of misfeance in public office imho

    Hope some of the others will give this thread a scan, and see if they can add something.

    Wirral Borough Council (I don't know about anywhere else) it seems are granted liability orders by Birkenhead Magistrates Court on the basis that all they have to do is turn up, say that they have xxx number of unpaid Council Tax claims and the orders are granted, it takes minutes, and from some research I have done they always get them in as the first case of any session, so if someone is late by even a few minutes (I know everyone was delayed trying to enter the Birkenhead Magistrates Court a few weeks ago due to a protest by a Free Man group) the case is heard, the liability orders granted and the representative from the Council are gone within minutes.

    If I were a cynical (or paranoid) person I would say that Wirral Borough Council, or more accurately their Council Tax department, knows that they have got this one (seriously) wrong, and they have used ever excuse they can to try and avoid responsibility for their error. They know who owns the property (it's not me, and to remove any doubt, never has been), they have a sworn affidavit from the person who was living there at the time saying that they were there and should have paid the Tax, but every time they were faced with this they referrred it to the IP, who merely added costs for reading the paperwork.

    Incedibly it seems (from paperwork I have obtained) they knew all along who the person was who I found out was living there, and where he now lived but kept this information private, it was only due to an error by the IP accidentally including his details in a bundle of notes they sent to me from an internal memo that I was able to find him, and 24hrs later he had attended the Courts and sworn a statement which was served on the Council. This, it seems, along with copies of his utility bills, letters from the local court regarding outstanding parket tickets (sent to that address) and council records showing that they were paying rent for him on another property up until the day before he was claiming to have lived there, and on another property from the day after he was shown to have left there, were "not enough proof" for Mrs Kit Chan to apply for the liability orders to be removed from my name

    I don't think that WBC expected the souring costs to be paid, I suspect that they hoped I would end up without the house, penniless and unable to fight back as of course this is not a matter where Legal Aid would be granted. I think that once they found out that I had paid the IP over 35,000 to remove them from the equation that they then panicked and issued a second SD to start the whole thing again so that their department could hide behind it.

    But of course, I would only think that if I were a cynical or paranoid person.


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    unbelievable that a council can act in this manner

    have any of your complaints been addresses to the Chief Executive


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by hallowitch View Post
    unbelievable that a council can act in this manner

    have any of your complaints been addresses to the Chief Executive

    CEO, and MP at the very least, I am also horrified by this hallow, as the whole system itself is at fault, due to there being no way to stop the juggernaut, in spite of evidence that the OP is NOT RESPONSIBLE for the Council Tax for that address, Affidavits are tossed aside like confetti, whilst the court issues bankruptcy on the say so of the council on the nod without proof.

    Makes you want to do a freeman and send back all their bills ACCEPTED FOR VALUE, just to annoy them.


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    OP you do know that most councils don't administrate there own council tax back office staff are not always directly employed by the council and any complaint made if not addresses to the CEO may not be treated as formal complaint and in some situations the council may not even know what actions there contractors have taken against an alleged debtor or what fees they are charging for the privilege



    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ead.php?212401


    The Chief Executive of Wirral Council is Jim Wilkie.
    Contact:
    Wallasey Town Hall
    Brighton Street
    Wallasey
    Wirral
    CH44 8ED.
    Tel: 0151 691 8589
    Fax:0151 691 8583
    Email: jimwilkie@wirral.gov.uk


    Personally i would be looking to get the newspapers involved
    The tenant in the property has supplied the council with bills, in his name, dating back to 2001,
    I would defiantly want to know who initiated the change of liability for council tax at this address if council tax liability has been in the Tennant's name for 10 why the change all of a sudden you could to some degree understand if it was a new Tennant

    If it was me i would be wonder who has got it in for me


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by hallowitch View Post
    unbelievable that a council can act in this manner

    have any of your complaints been addresses to the Chief Executive

    Not so far but I have just been given his details and called (see below).


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by brassnecked View Post
    CEO, and MP at the very least, I am also horrified by this hallow, as the whole system itself is at fault, due to there being no way to stop the juggernaut, in spite of evidence that the OP is NOT RESPONSIBLE for the Council Tax for that address, Affidavits are tossed aside like confetti, whilst the court issues bankruptcy on the say so of the council on the nod without proof.

    Makes you want to do a freeman and send back all their bills ACCEPTED FOR VALUE, just to annoy them.
    This system itself has a major flaw in that once the Council have that libility order only they can take it back to court to have it revoked, and this, it seems, they aren't too keen on doing.

    The Bankruptcy proceedings were a joke, the Judge allowed every basic error by the Council to pass, Addresses were wrong, it hadn't been served on me correctly, the amounts were not my responsibility, all of this was acceptable, but as I had only brought with me enough money to pay the original debt and not any additional fees (which it took almost four YEARS for anyone to tell me how much they were) he granted there request.

    I did ask several times for a copy of the Court recording to show the fundamental errors that I felt had been made, but the court refused to allow me a copy, and apparently it is illegal to make your own recordings.


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    Has to be MP and press Ombudsmanicon? then as the WHOLE LIABILITY ORDER process is flawed if there is no challenge possible to overturn it where one has been granted wrongfully, against someone with no interesticon whatsoever in a property, or is the landlord where the tenant is legally responsible for CTax. as the Op is in this case. It is possibly a Human Rights Article 8 or some other aspect of EU law, that may offer a remedy imho, as it is procedurally unfair if it is only the council who can apply to revoke a wrongful LO which could have implications and a possible Article 8 breach of rights of the family of OP not limited to enforced sale of home and enforced homelessness as the Council who bankrupted someone could refuse to rehouse as they considered them "Intentionally homeless"

    I have a feeling that they are reluctant to apply for revocation, as this would open them to litigation for damages and restitutionicon to OP springing from the bankruptcy that THEY instigated, and making them look like the complete toss pots that they may well be.

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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by hallowitch View Post
    OP you do know that most councils don't administrate there own council tax back office staff are not always directly employed by the council and any complaint made if not addresses to the CEO may not be treated as formal complaint and in some situations the council may not even know what actions there contractors have taken against an alleged debtor or what fees they are charging for the privilege

    The Chief Executive of Wirral Council is Jim Wilkie.
    Contact:
    Wallasey Town Hall
    Brighton Street
    Wallasey
    Wirral
    CH44 8ED.
    Tel: 0151 691 8589
    Fax:0151 691 8583



    Personally i would be looking to get the newspapers involved
    The tenant in the property has supplied the council with bills, in his name, dating back to 2001,
    I would defiantly want to know who initiated the change of liability for council tax at this address if council tax liability has been in the Tennant's name for 10 why the change all of a sudden you could to some degree understand if it was a new Tennant

    If it was me i would be wonder who has got it in for me

    Thank you for that information, I have just called and was told by "Debbie" (the person who answered the phone, I did explain that I was using this site and publishing details and she said she was quite happy to give me her name, she also said I could have her surname as well but I didn't want it) that Mr Jim Wilkie is in a meeting (no suprise there) and that he was off for his annual leave this afternoon and wouldn't be back until next week.

    Debbie was extremely helpful and said that she would pass on my number to someone within the Council Tax team, I could see that this would lead to yet more conversations going nowhere so explained that as my complaint was about the Council Tax Dept perhaps it would be more appropriate for someone else to deal with it. She said that she would pass my details to Mr Ian Coleman who is the Director of Finance as a matter of urgency as obviously I still have to get a 6.19 in by tomorrow and have no idea how to draft one yet or what valid grounds I can offer.

    Just as an aside, although the tenant has resided there for ten years and has had all the bills in his name for ten years the Council claim that they have never put the Council Tax in his name on this property.

    A little extra (somewhat amusing fact) on how incompetant (and perhaps vindictive) this Council are. The property was empty during 2000/2001 and during this time was "broken into", they stole various fixtures and fittings, Combi Boiler, Gas Fire etc etc, I reported this and set about repairs, the property was then let to my current tenant.
    During my complaint to the Council about this tax they told me that the property had been exempt during 2000/2001, I said that I knew that as the property had been empty until the July/Aug, they said no it was because my tenant during that period had been on income Support and Housing Benefit, I told them that I didn't have a tenant during that time, they claimed that I did and gave me his name a Mr Bxxxx Wxxxx. I told them that I knew of no such person and that the property had been empty. They assured me that it hadn't and that they had called me to confirm the tenancy, I asked for the number, which they wouldn't give me, but confirmed it wasn't any of mine (I've had the same two mobile phone numbers for over 15 years). When they checked they then said that the claimant (Mr Bxxx Wxxx) had given the same mobile phone number as his contact number.
    So let me get this right, someone breaks into my property, makes a claim for HB and IS, the Council pay both to him and call him to confirm that he's okay to live there.
    Oh yes, best part, when I explained that he wasn't a tenant and had defrauded the Council they said that it was something they would "look into", but if it turned out that the person wasn't eligible for Housing Benefit (as essentially he was a burglar) the I would be responsible for the Council Tax for that period.


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Keep Smiling View Post
    This system itself has a major flaw in that once the Council have that liability order only they can take it back to court to have it revoked, and this, it seems, they aren't too keen on doing.

    as far as i know this is correct

    The Bankruptcy proceedings were a joke, the Judge allowed every basic error by the Council to pass, Addresses were wrong, it hadn't been served on me correctly, the amounts were not my responsibility, all of this was acceptable, but as I had only brought with me enough money to pay the original debt and not any additional fees (which it took almost four YEARS for anyone to tell me how much they were) he granted there request.
    how long has this going on for (shocked)
    I did ask several times for a copy of the Court recording to show the fundamental errors that I felt had been made, but the court refused to allow me a copy, and apparently it is illegal to make your own recordings.

    why did they refuse you your Subject access requesticon


    do you what i sat all weekend going over and over this thread and i cant get my head round this


    why have you been waiting years for info what is your solicitor doing about this

    why haven't you been to the Ombudsmanicon before now
    why haven't you been to the chief exec before now
    have you been dealing with same person from the council
    what is your MP doing about this


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by brassnecked View Post
    Has to be MP and press Ombudsmanicon? then as the WHOLE LIABILITY ORDER process is flawed if there is no challenge possible to overturn it where one has been granted wrongfully, against someone with no interesticon whatsoever in a property, or is the landlord where the tenant is legally responsible for CTax. as the Op is in this case. It is possibly a Human Rights Article 8 or some other aspect of EU law, that may offer a remedy imho, as it is procedurally unfair if it is only the council who can apply to revoke a wrongful LO which could have implications and a possible Article 8 breach of rights of the family of OP not limited to enforced sale of home and enforced homelessness as the Council who bankrupted someone could refuse to rehouse as they considered them "Intentionally homeless"

    I have a feeling that they are reluctant to apply for revocation, as this would open them to litigation for damages and restitutionicon to OP springing from the bankruptcy that THEY instigated, and making them look like the complete toss pots that they may well be.

    When I spoke to Debbie at Wallasey Town Hall I mentioned the Human Rights Act, although I concentrated on Article 6 rather than Article 8, I also commented that the Council were in breach of The Council Tax (administration & enforcement) Act 1992 with particular reference to Part VI 33, 34 and 35. (Thanks to people on here for pointing me to that and a long night of reading).

    Obviously if they revoked the original LO's the Bankruptcy would have to be annulled as it had nothing to be based upon, that would of course mean that all payments I had made would have to be returned plus, I would imagine, a similar amount as obviously I had incurred costs. It is for this reason I feel that they are so reluctant to do anything about it and why they begain this second proceedings on the very day that the original amount was cleared.


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    Agreed hallow, this is a strange situation, but I fear may not be as uncommon as one would think, as once a juggernaut of action is in motion started by an inept council, nothing seems to be able to steer or stop it


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    Just as an aside, although the tenant has resided there for ten years and has had all the bills in his name for ten years the Council claim that they have never put the Council Tax in his name on this property.

    has your name been on the council tax bill for the last 10 years

    A little extra (somewhat amusing fact) on how incompetant (and perhaps vindictive) this Council are. The property was empty during 2000/2001 and during this time was "broken into", they stole various fixtures and fittings, Combi Boiler, Gas Fire etc etc, I reported this and set about repairs, the property was then let to my current tenant.
    During my complaint to the Council about this tax they told me that the property had been exempt during 2000/2001, I said that I knew that as the property had been empty until the July/Aug, they said no it was because my tenant during that period had been on income Support and Housing Benefit, I told them that I didn't have a tenant during that time, they claimed that I did and gave me his name a Mr Bxxxx Wxxxx. I told them that I knew of no such person and that the property had been empty. They assured me that it hadn't and that they had called me to confirm the tenancy, I asked for the number, which they wouldn't give me, but confirmed it wasn't any of mine (I've had the same two mobile phone numbers for over 15 years). When they checked they then said that the claimant (Mr Bxxx Wxxx) had given the same mobile phone number as his contact number.
    So let me get this right, someone breaks into my property, makes a claim for HB and IS, the Council pay both to him and call him to confirm that he's okay to live there.
    Oh yes, best part, when I explained that he wasn't a tenant and had defrauded the Council they said that it was something they would "look into", but if it turned out that the person wasn't eligible for Housing Benefit (as essentially he was a burglar) the I would be responsible for the Council Tax for that period.

    ????????????????????????// thats a joke you have got to be kidding


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by hallowitch View Post
    why did they refuse you your Subject access requesticon


    do you what i sat all weekend going over and over this thread and i cant get my head round this


    why have you been waiting years for info what is your solicitor doing about this

    why haven't you been to the Ombudsmanicon before now
    why haven't you been to the chief exec before now
    have you been dealing with same person from the council
    what is your MP doing about this

    It's okay, I have been trying to get my head around this since the Bankruptcy in 2006

    I have phoned, visited, emailed and written to Wirral Borough Council so many times over this I have lost count (although I have kept copies) there default response is to refer it to the IP (Drydens) or to tell (not ask, tell) me not to call them anymore and to speak to the IP instead.

    The IP's reply is always along the route of I should take it up with the Council, and if I don't clear the amount quickly they are going to sell my property.

    I suppose it's because I am ill, I am very very ill, the Council do know this and I did provide a extremely comprehensive file to the Courts showing that it was unlikely I would be able to see these proceedings through to the end. Unfortunately for them (and somewhat luckily for me) I have never listened when someone tells me to do something, so i keep moving about.

    I don't claim any type of benefits, I don't want to, if I don't claim them nothing is wrong with me (in my eyes), however I did once during a conversation with Mrs Chan ask if I could claim Income Support and have it back-dated as this would nullify the Council Tax, she told me I couldn't as I had already told them that I didn't live in that property. I laughed and pointed out that that was the exact reason I wasn't responsible for the Council Tax, her reply was that they had the Liabilty Orders and therefore I was.


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    Default Re: Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by hallowitch View Post
    Just as an aside, although the tenant has resided there for ten years and has had all the bills in his name for ten years the Council claim that they have never put the Council Tax in his name on this property.

    has your name been on the council tax bill for the last 10 years

    A little extra (somewhat amusing fact) on how incompetant (and perhaps vindictive) this Council are. The property was empty during 2000/2001 and during this time was "broken into", they stole various fixtures and fittings, Combi Boiler, Gas Fire etc etc, I reported this and set about repairs, the property was then let to my current tenant.
    During my complaint to the Council about this tax they told me that the property had been exempt during 2000/2001, I said that I knew that as the property had been empty until the July/Aug, they said no it was because my tenant during that period had been on income Support and Housing Benefit, I told them that I didn't have a tenant during that time, they claimed that I did and gave me his name a Mr Bxxxx Wxxxx. I told them that I knew of no such person and that the property had been empty. They assured me that it hadn't and that they had called me to confirm the tenancy, I asked for the number, which they wouldn't give me, but confirmed it wasn't any of mine (I've had the same two numbers for over 15 years). When they checked they then said that the claimant (Mr Bxxx Wxxx) had given the same mobile phone number as his contact number.
    So let me get this right, someone breaks into my property, makes a claim for HB and IS, the Council pay both to him and call him to confirm that he's okay to live there.
    Oh yes, best part, when I explained that he wasn't a tenant and had defrauded the Council they said that it was something they would "look into", but if it turned out that the person wasn't eligible for Housing Benefit (as essentially he was a burglar) the I would be responsible for the Council Tax for that period.

    ????????????????????????// thats a joke you have got to be kidding

    I wish it was, no that is the truth, I do have the persons whole name but obviously haven't put it as I have no idea if any criminal action has or will ever been taken.

    They haven't actually chased me for CT for that period, although now I come to think of it I suspect that may be their next step if I clear this current request.

    I don't ever feel like like a victim, I don't use the word victimised, but as I write more and more of this down (it's extremely theraputic) I do see a common thread developing.



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