Hi, I am trying to help a friend out. I told her about the site but she couldn’t post these up as she isn’t allowed links in her post as yet, so I said I’d post these up and she could reply to suggestions and explain anything further herself.

I had got her to write to all creditors explaining her current financial situation (she has more going out than coming in basically) and make token offers, to which those that have replied have accepted token payments.

However, Santander hasn’t agreed and instead have sent her the following Default Notice, Notice of Default, Notice of Termination and Demand in Full letters within the space of a month.

She's had a look around the forum and hasn't a clue about the amount of charges added etc. This was a loan for a car originally (car returned after only a few months and sold at auction) She's not trying to not pay them but circumstances are such that she's unable to atm hence the token offer.

If anyone can help ty in advance. What should she do now they refuse her token payment and send all this lot out?

Thread moved.

Is there any possibility you can upload those scans as PDF's? There very difficult to read as they are.

Either way, she should make the offer of payment in writing, stay OFF the phone, never go through their puerile security questions just inform them "everything in writing" and hang up.

If they are playing hard ball, then they will find the whole process of getting the token payment of £1 a month equally frustrating!

Send them the offer in writing first, along with a watered down I&E form either from here or http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/budget_sheet.php?country=england_wales

Edit to suit, & you do not need to tell them the personal ins and out's of your finances, just that you are showing a willingness to pay, and this is all you can realistically afford, accept or not, it doesn't matter that is all you will pay them, once you have made the offer set up a standing order ONLY and pay them the amount offered each month.

See what their next foolish move is, and if they continue being greedy and obstreperous you can then hit them with a CCA request, How long ago was this loan taken out? And are there any charges or fees, like PPI, on the account?

Sorry for posting in the wrong place and ty for moving it rebel.

They are still adding £25 monthly late payment charges Bazooka. No PPI taken out. She will post later with details of when the loan was taken out ( I think it was around late 2009 early 2010).

Here is the letter I have drawn up does it read ok?

Dear Sir/Madam

Acc/Ref No 12345678

After writing to you and explaining our current financial situation and our token offer of £1 a month. We are left to assume that this is not acceptable as since this time you have issued default notice and termination of agreement without replying to our token payment offer and still have added yet more late payment charges of £25 each month.

The majority of our other creditors have accepted the offers made to them and we have commenced payments.

As we have already explained, our outgoings exceed our incomings yet we still want to show willing and make this offer in good faith and in the current economical climate feel immensely disappointed in your response thus far.

To ignore responding to our letter initially offering £1 token payment and to send out default notices and terminations is only exasperating an already worrying and stressful time for me.

In the light of the other creditors agreeing to our token payment, please would you reconsider our offer?

We will be making the payments to your company, on a monthly basis, as a gesture of goodwill.

We look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible.

Yours faithfully

Thanks for your input BB

thanks for putting these up, as soon as ive found out how to scan into pdf format ill do it again, thanks as

docs.pdf

Hi Naomi, glad to see you here. This is the best place for guidance on debt and I'm sure you'll get the help you want

So let me get this straight - They have terminated the agreement yet are still adding charges as per the terms of the agreement (£25 is excessive assuming this is a credit card agreement). So they are effectively charging you when the agreement that such terms are part off no longer exists.

In other words, the charges are now unlawful since they terminated the agreement that allows them to make such charges.

Could really do with seeing a clearer scan of the documents, as i can hardly make them out.

IF it is a credit card debt, send them a CCA request, they'll have 12+ 2 working days to respond with a valid copy of the CCA, after that, they'll be in default of the account themselves. And if it is an unenforceable CCA, then say either accept the token payments or go swivel, as an unenforceable agreement can not be enforced in court.

Also work out all the charges incurred on the account and reclaim them.

Alternatively,

Dear Sir/madam,

Following on my from my previous correspondence to yourselves, with an offer of payment, and your failure to accept. I will assume that it is your intent on demanding unrealistic payments that I can neither afford nor will be able to make comfortably.

I will again reiterate, that my offer of payment is based upon my financial status, and unfortunately I am not in a position to bow down to your demands. I cannot pay what I do not have. Therefore whether you agree to these reduced payments or not, it has no bearing on the fact that it is all you will be receiving from me for the foreseeable future.

If you do not understand anything in this letter then you are strongly advised to seek proper legal advice immediately, I look forward to your reply, but should you remain ignorant, then payments will commence at the reduced rate on dd/mm/yyyy.

Regards.

If you do not understand anything in this letter then you are strongly advised to seek proper legal advise immediately, I look forward to your reply, but should you remain ignorant, then payments will commence at the reduced rate on dd/mm/yyyy.

 

Regards.

might get her to send something along these lines if they persist with bully tactics

Hi T, mentioned in first post that it was a car loan (only briefly - apologies if not clear enough). Car was repossessed after only a few months - less than a third. Having probs explaining how to save as pdf. Have found that if you highlight and save pictures above magnifying in your pic viewer on your pc makes them better for reading. Will get a lesson for upload in pdf format sorted asap for her.

The termination was only received 28th March 2011 and so at present I don't think there has been a charge this month, will get her to confirm that.

Car loans are covered by the CCA, so yes CCA them still.

If the agreement is not enforceable they'll have no choice but to accept an offer of repayments even if its £1 a month, as they will not be able to enforce through the court without a enforceable CCA.

By the way, i think the default notice is invalid as it looks like it was dated the 9th march, so 4 working days (Week ends do not count) are required for it to be deemed as served, which would mean it would not be deemed served til the 15th, which means you only received 12 days out of the statutory 14 days you are entitled to in order to remedy the default. I assume it came in an envelope with a S sign in the top right hand corner, S being second class post?

Also looks like they sent two default notices one asking for full amount the other asking for arrears only, both dated the 9th by the looks of it.

Notice of Default for arrears is dated 8th March 2011

Default Notice also dated 8th March for arrears stating to pay arrears by 27th March.

Followed by Notification of Termination on the agreement and full amount now due.

Stating in capitals on the N.o.T:

IF THIS IS NOT PAID IMMEDIATELY WE WILL TAKE LEGAL PROCEEDINGS AGAINST YOU. YOU MAY HAVE TO PAY THE COURT COSTS

On your point about serving the notice. If I understand you correctly:

Notice of Default & Default Notice (both dated 8th March) should be as follows-

8th March - Tuesday, so count Wednesday as day1 Thursday and Friday (3days?) then the following week another 5 up to and including Friday 18th march making 8days, then the following week another 5 working days making 13days and then Monday 28th (date both defaults have) would be the 14th. Am I right in assuming then they should have in fact dated/sent them the next day (Tueday 29th) to have been 14 'clear days' and therefore valid?

Monday 28th on my reckoning would have been the 14th workday.

N.o.D and DN both are for arrears but with the DN mentioning the full amount at bottom of letter if arrears not paid in time.

I guess the 'we will take legal action' is pretty much stating what they intend to do regardless of what naomi offers?

It all just seems to be a sad state of affairs when these were only sent after she sent I&E and token payment offer. So much for financial institutions 'understanding' of cunsumers in difficulty with money.

stating to pay arrears by 27th March. either way they are still short on the 14 clear days as they clearly say payment must be with them by the 27th making the 26th the last date in which you could possibly make a payment. So first day of post to you will be the 9th like you said, so it would be deemed served on the 4th working day which would be the 14th, so the 27 is only 12 days out of a clear 14 days as the 28th, like you said would be the correct date by which payment should be received. The 14 days does include weekends i believe, only the postage is work days only. So yeah the default notice is invalid so the termination is unlawful rescission, but DO NOT say anything to them about it, unless the OC has sold the debt to a 3rd party. Because so long as the OC still owns the debt they can legally rectify the Default notice and termination, but once they have sold it they can not rectify it as they no longer have any legal rights to the debt, and the party that buys the debt will not be able to rectify it (as they can not reinstate a contract they were not an original party to in order to rectify it), nor would they be able to enforce the debt in court either. And you yourself can counter claim for damages of up to £1,000 if they do attempt to enforce the debt.

As to why they sent you a notice of default and a default notice well, i see no point as all they need to send is a default notice under section 81 off the CCA 1974

If they do take legal action whilst not rectifying the default notice, then the court will not be able to enforce it until they do rectify it.

Also send a CCA because if that is unenforceable or they do not send you one then a court will not beable to enforce it either. so you would have 2 points to your defense.

So send the CCA first, they may well shut up if its unenforceable or if they do not have a copy and as such sell the debt to an unsuspecting DCA whom unfortunately for them will not be able to enforce in the court because of the invalid default notice, so happy days then, as they will just have to make do with what ever your friend decides she wants to repay each month if anything.

Just to clarify (can't believe they would act so incorrectly in this regards) DN dated 8th March and Not. of Term. dated 28th March is short? It should have been dated...?

Will get n to send out a CCA request in the meantime. Should she set up the £1 token payment still in the meantime? or wait and see if Santand. sell off the debt?

Just to clarify (can't believe they would act so incorrectly in this regards - You'd be surprised at how often creditors get defaults wrong) DN dated 8th March and Not. of Term. dated 28th March is short? It should have been dated...? Paid by 29th March giving you upto 12 midnight on the 28th to rememdy which would then also have been a clear 14 days - instead of pay by the 27th which only gave you till 12 midnight on the 26th which was only 12 clear days out of the 14 your entitled to.

 

Will get n to send out a CCA request in the meantime. Should she set up the £1 token payment still in the meantime? or wait and see if Santand. sell off the debt?

The token payment is up to her, but i would recommend she keeps paying it regardless, as they'll probably just sell it anyway and if she keeps paying the token payments then in the event that they rectify the default notice and the CCA turns out to be enforceable a judge will likely favor on her side and see santand's legal action as more of an abuse of court process anyway. So the judge in such event would simply look at her income and expenditure see if she could afford more or not and likely give an order for her to just pay the £1 a month anyway until her circumstances improve to the point she can afford more.

P.s. Termination notice date is irrelevant when the termination notice follows an invalid default notice

Unfortunately invalid DN's are no longer an effective weapon, once they are informed that the DN is invalid, they are then able to rectify this and issue a valid DN. You would have to prove that you were seriously disadvantaged by the defective DN and any subsequent legal action to have a hope of defending.

As you said its only an ineffective weapon if the OC is told about it, which is why i told the OP not to tell them. Because once they sell the account they are no longer able to rectify, as they no longer have any legal rights under the agreement, and neither will the DCA as they were never a party to the original agreement.

Thats Santander/Abbey for you. Miss-sold me a loan, refused to take the money back, the money got frittered due to it being there and me ill, asked them to answer complaint, closed complaint with no reply to me and told me not willing to look into it, faulty default notice and termination showing balalance zero and sold account on. DCA sold to past it back to them due to my story. Santander suddenly ressurect the account from zero:shock:and start sending statements:sad:

Tell me they wont take it to court despite threats, wonder why?

SAR states mrs........reminds us of her mental condition

reply.........not our problem.

So Santander are not willing to even when they mis-sell a loan to while being looked into freeze interest and stop charges, so you have my sympathy.

Dont tell them they have as they seem to give to most a dodgy default, hopefully they will like me terminate on that and I dont think they can argue a case of an account to zero then ressurected as no dca will touch it for longxx

I pay 1.00 on an overdraft account I agree I used that money with my choice, but as for the loan they can go forth, due to their own dodgy tactics and harassment miss-selling and forcing down the throat of an ill person xx

Stand strong you will get there

ps. You can force the token payments of 1.00 on them, just get sort code and account number and set up a standing order, thats what I did.

It will make a difference to a court that you are paying the money. Santander dont like dealing with tokens they just want rid and sell on, but if you enforce the money and can prove it is all you can afford if goes to court (which probably wont) it will be of help.

Even worst case scenario, go into the bank if you can stomach it on set day of month and produce sort code and account number, even if loan and they will take the money.

I never to this day got a letter accepting it, but when past to dca they then do accept it as was trying to get me to do it on the loan and I stood firm that it was in dispute in that case, overdraft heres one pound I was paying to abbey, loan nope xx

Token payment will get set up accordingly. As for what might happen in the future (sold on to dca or not) will just have to wait and see. Like you said T, if it isn't sold on then there won't be much more they can do anyway and going to court would look bad on them, especially if what can afford to be paid is being. If it's sold to a DCA in the future, we can cross that bridge then when it happens and re-evaluate the state of play.

Exactly.

Did you get the CCA request sent today?

Not today. Hopefully she'll be able to get it sent tomorrow, forgot about it being bank holiday weekend.

CCA Request was signed for on 3rd May by Santander, however i have recieved a telephone call today from a debt collection agency CCM saying that they have taken over the debt. i have not recieved anything back from Santander

In that case santander are in default of your cca request so send the following: - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?436-Failure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale.

Do you know which DCA it was that called you? EDIT: Sorry didnt see the bit where you said CCM.

Eitherway, tell them to put it in writing and that you require a notice of assignment.

thankyou, they have since rang me back and have informed them to only corrospond to me in writing, so will wait to hear from them