I've cross posted this as I've only just spotted this section! Apologies!!!

I'll try and keep this brief because I've told it so many times, to so many people I'm sick of it. I just want to make sure I'm going to CAB on Monday completely prepared.

I lived in a 3 bedroom shared house in london from July 2005 to December 2008. From the time I moved in till July 2008 I was a full time student and when I graduated my landlord assured me that my ctax had been included in my rent all along. I requested a new tenancy agreement as mine had run out years and years ago was with my dad's employers (my student accommodation was paid by them).

I was registered on the council tax from when I first moved in and as other tenants came and left I *assumed* (wrong move) that they were being as honest as me and putting themselves on the c tax. It wasn't until I found out my LL was telling them not to.

There were originally 3 rooms, two doubles and one single. Each rented out separately and each with its own tenancy agreement. We had locks on our doors and shared a kitchen, bathroom and a living room until June 2008.

In June 2008 my LL said that he was going to convert our living room into another bedroom in exchange for a tumble dryer and not increasing the rent. If we didn't like it, we could find somewhere else to live. So by the time I left there were about 6 of us living there.

Started getting letters about council tax but was assured by my LL (who never gave me my new tenancy agreement) that it was covered etc etc. Told the council this, they seemed appeased and then informed them I was moving.

Fast forward to 2 years later I start getting baliff's letters and threatning letters from the council about outstanding balance.

I have called and the person mentioned that it was listed as a single occupancy and I said, well no... there were other people renting. They said that they would carry out an investigation and I was no longer liable for C tax. I asked for it in writing and they said yes no problem.

I call back 28 days later as I have no letter and they say "Oh, we tried to gain access but were refused. You're still liable" Thank you for telling me this.....

I went to the CAB and the only way I can get rid of not only this £600 C tax bill that is all in my name and get the numerous credit searches against my name by some search agency hired by the council is to prove that the house was an HMO.

I've got 2 of the other tenant's tenancy agreements which have clearly stated "ROOM 2" and "ROOM 3" written on them and sent these to the council. These tenancy agreements are from 2007 though and I'm worried that the council are going to turn around and say either....

a) These aren't for the period of the charges (July 2008-January 2009) and thus I'm still liable

or

b) That the definition of an HMO in their area is different. I have come across a million different definitions and my head is spinning.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I have had to take a day off work to go to the CAB when the C Tax line is open.

Thanks in advance

The definition of a Council Tax HMO is covered in the Liability For Owners Regulations 1992 as amended:

“Houses in multiple occupation, etc

Class C a dwelling which

(a)

was originally constructed or subsequently adapted for occupation by persons who do not constitute a single household;

or

(b)

is inhabited by a person who, or by two or more persons each of whom either—

(i)

is a tenant of, or has a licence to occupy, part only of the dwelling; or

(ii)

has a licence to occupy, but is not liable (whether alone or jointly with other persons) to pay rent or a licence fee in respect of, the dwelling as a whole.”.

If it comes under the criteria of an HMO then the landlord is liable.

From a quick reading of your post one of the first things I would look at when trying to spot an HMO is the turnover of occupiers - its not conclusive but if people tend to come and go fairly regularly then its a good chance its an HMO.

The second thing I would look at would be the rents - do you each have an figure quoted to you rather than an overall total rent for the property ?.

Hi SS,

Thanks for that. I've seen multiple entries for there must be three people in a household, then it must be over 3 floors and have more than 5 tenants etc etc. It's all very confusing and it does feel like SC are trying to pin me down as the "weakest link" so to speak to get their money.

They've been extremely unhelpful, refused to provide me with information several times (it's taken 5 months to get a breakdown of the costs out of them!) and their tone is almost sniffy and as if they are humouring me to try and prove it was an HMO. I'm just worried that I'll provide this information and they'll say that it's not enough!!

Thanks for that. I've seen multiple entries for there must be three people in a household, then it must be over 3 floors and have more than 5 tenants etc etc. It's all very confusing and it does feel like SC are trying to pin me down as the "weakest link" so to speak to get their money.

A HMO for licensing purposes has different rules to those for council tax.

The legislation I have posted is correct for council tax purposes (for my sins, its my day job...)

Haha, bless ya. My day job is sales so I'm probably much worse So Southwark Council should accept those two tenancy agreements of other tenants (the dates overlap) as proof it was an HMO? Or do you reckon they'll try and catch me out?