Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder Unhappy_ex_gym_member Novitiate

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    Default Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    I'd like to share my experience with Bannatynes gymicon and the 3 month notice period that they rigidly enforce.

    I had been a member with Bannatynes Crewe for 5years and then decided to leave in 2008 mainly due to being umeployed and skint. Like most on here I hadnt been made aware of the 3 month notice period and to be honest had not looked at paperwork since I first joined. They initially did send me a few letters reminding me and requesting payment but I replied saying that it was unfair considering the length of time I had been a member. They didnt pursue it any more. A year latter I had found a job and decided to go back again and re-join.

    I went a long in August 2008 and sat down with one of their members of staff who explained that the had a deal on with ex-members where you didnt have to pay any joining fees. I made it clear that the only thing I wasnt happy with was the 3 month notice period, to which he said that because i was an ex member so long as I did 3 months membership up front that I didnt have to give 3 months notice. He even wrote on my contract (and I have carbon copy, see attached a copy) that i was an ex-member and that the 3month notice and 12 month contract did not apply.

    To cut a long story short I lost my job in October 2010 and decided to leave Bannatynes and cancel my DDicon. I did write a letter out of courtesey advising them but did not think there would be an issue due to what I had agreed to. I then got a series of letters saying that I owed 3 months membership for the 3 month notice period. I have replied telling them that I don't owe a thing and have sent copies of my contract. They then now invoiced me saying that I owed them for the 3 month period. Once a agin I replied and actually spoke to one of their head offiice staff and explained what I had agreed to when I signed up.

    They are now saying that the person who signed me up is no longer there and they can not be accountable for what he said/did and that the writing on my contract means that as an ex-member I am not required to fulfill a further 12 month contract and that the 3 month notice period would still apply. This is not what I agreed too or was told at the time when I signed up. They have given me 14 days to cough up or they will take further action.

    I am going to tell them again that I wont be paying and I intend to stick to my guns on this. If they take me to court then I will argue miss-representation/miss-selling gymicon membership to me.

    Your thoughts and advice would be welcome.

    Thanks

    Attached Images

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    Hi Unhappy and welcome to CAGicon

    The image of the contract is too small to be read. Can you repost it after reading this guide - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...i-dummies.html

    Alternatively, can you confirm exactly what is written at the top of the new contract.

    Basically, I think the terms added at the top of the contract will be binding whether or not the staff member still works there. He was a representative of the gymicon at the time you re-signed.

    8-)

    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    I also would like to see what it says on the contract.

    I'm with Slick on this, they can't get out of it because someone no longer works there. If that were the case then a million contracts in all sorts of businesses would be voided because someone had left or died.
    The aircraft carrier contracts are to be carried through because of penalties, but if what they are trying to claim is true, then Cameron could just ditch them as Brown no longer works there.

    The only action they will carry out will be a default with credit reference agencies. You should mention to them that if they try this then 'you' will take 'them' to court as well as reporting them to the OFT.

    You should also ask them to quote in which contract regulation it says that about not working for someone any longer.


  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder Unhappy_ex_gym_member Novitiate

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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    Ok thanks, I wiill try again with attachement.

    Cheers.

    Update: got reply to e-mail from OFT/consumerdirect and they say that I may have case for miss-representation/miss-selling contract to me, which is what I will pursue. I am not imagining what was said and neither lieing, otherwise I would not have rejoined/agreed to 3 months notice. They say onus will be on me to prove and only proof I have is my carbon copy of contract. I will keep you posted.

    Contract_c.jpg


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    Hi Unhappy,

    I can now see the writing at the top of the agreement, but can you confirm what the abbreviations means where it says:-

    "No 3/f "

    8-)

    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

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  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder Unhappy_ex_gym_member Novitiate

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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    Hi,

    I am not sure its also could be 3/P. He has abrieviated member as well. When I was signing up he was refering to because I was an ex-member I did not having to give 3 months notice so long as i was a paying member for 3 months at the start of my membership. I was most speciffic on not agreeing to the 3 months notice otherwise I would not have signed and certainly not agreed to anything if I knew they were then going to renege on what was said. I will argue my side if they take me to court. the fact that something is writen is proof enough. I did not imagine or make up what he said and that is what I agreed to when I signed the agreement. I'm also asking my solicitor for some feedback.

    If the guy hadn't of written on the contract I would not have had a leg to stand on.

    Cheers.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    Hi Unhappy,

    Having looked at this again, I think it actually reads as " No J/f " referring to No Joining Fee. Would this make sense, given the discussion you had at the time.

    In which case, the annotation added by the gymicon's representative says you are an ex-member and, as such, you are:-

    1. Not being charged a Joining Fee.

    2. Not bound by a 12 months agreement or contract.

    The gymicon will no doubt continue to argue that you are bound, by the contract, to pay 3 months' fees if you cancel (during the first 12 months of the new contract).

    But, IMHO, the wording of the annotation says that there is No 12 months contract and I think the gym would be unlikely to have this agreement held to be enforceable if they dared take it to court.

    Stick to your guns and maintain that the contract is clearly annotated by a gym representative in a manner which, although ambiguous, clearly suggests that there is, in fact, no 12 month contract at all.

    You should keep a check on your credit reference files if they say they will mark this against you. If you find they have posted any adverse data or threaten to do so, see the penultimate para in this letter that I drafted for RosieJ - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...=1#post3272444

    8-)

    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

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  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder Unhappy_ex_gym_member Novitiate

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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    Hi Slick,

    thanks! Don't worry I will stick to my guns on this. I'll keep you posted.

    Cheers!

    ps here is last letter I had from them:

    Bannatynes_Reply_letter_b.jpg


  9. #9
    Basic Account Holder Unhappy_ex_gym_member Novitiate

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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    Noted.

    Hope you've looked at the link I gave to RosieJ's thread.

    8-)

    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

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  11. #11
    Basic Account Holder Unhappy_ex_gym_member Novitiate

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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    Hi Slick,

    yes it's noted, thanks ;-)

    How do I go about checking my credit? Is it free or do I have to pay?

    Cheers.


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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    You really need to know which CRA they used and if you ask, then they 'have' to tell you.

    I know that experion has a trial and if you cancel before that trial expires then it costs you nothing. You do have to give them payment details as they hope that you won't cancel and then I think it's about 6 per month. If you write to them then it is a one off payment of 2.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    Yup, Experian offer a 30 day free trial with their Credit Expert offer [Weird TV ad campaign] but it's 6.99 pm after that so make sure you cancel carefully.

    The companies concerned are Experian, Equifax and Callcredit.

    8-)

    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

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  14. #14
    Basic Account Holder Unhappy_ex_gym_member Novitiate

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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    ***UpDate*****

    Just had another letter from bannatynes:


    Bannatynes_Reply_letter_2_b.jpg

    I gave them a call and spoke to the woman I spoke to last time. I repeated that I was prepared to take this all the way and tried to talk sense with them. Reminded them that over the years I had spent around 2500 (so they are not at a loss) with them and that they were not honouring the terms/agreement I joined (at the time of signing) under. They are still saying that they are not accountable for person no longer there (typical!) and I am still bound by 3 month notice in T&C's (although these refer to a 12 month contract that seems to contradict the NO 12 MONTH CONTRACT scralled over my agreement). Apparently they don't amend individual contracts (errr, excuse me but isn't that what you have done in this case??). Even their replies contradict themselves.

    So why don't they have a sticker or something with what they really mean so that the can ammend contrcacts in a more professional way (or even a seperate agreement for ex members?) without relying on the representative scralling on them??

    She also said how else could Bannatynes make any money? Well if they did honour what I thought I had signed up to then I dont owe anything. They are just being greedy and trying to squeeze every last drop of money out of people who have been good customers and been good payers.

    They have lost me as a potential customer, lost any business from me with anything else asscociated with Bannatynes and nethier would I recomend them to anyone else. It's a disgrace how they treat their customers and ex-customers. I have been miss-sold my membership and if they valued their customers they would honour what was agreed and if anthing offer me an appology for miss-selling to me, but no all they worry about is lining their pockets.

    Duncan Bannatyne is the man that wouldn't waive a 10 a month gymicon fee for a cancer patient, sold "free" Kellogs bars to gymicon members, makes his own staff bring their own pens to work and doesn't like any critisisms of his hotels (all of which you can read on the web). look at the term "without prejudiceicon save as to costs" on the letters that I have recieved. The words tightfisted come to mind. You can picture him in his ivory tower counting his pennies.

    I'll let you know when the court papers come in the post...

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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    Nothing new really, either in their letter or the discussion you had with them.

    They have a really weak case against you IMHO and are very unlikely to take any court action. If they do and you defend, you should win.

    However, it's more likely that you will now be bombarded with more demands.

    I'd simply reply saying they are wrong in their assertions and you won't be paying any more. Remind them that further demands will be reported to the fosicon for formal investigation.

    8-)

    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

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  16. #16
    Basic Account Holder Unhappy_ex_gym_member Novitiate

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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    Hi Slick,

    thanks mate. Just one question, are you sure fosicon is correct or did you mean OFT? FOS seems to be more for banking /finance firms.

    Cheers!

    PS heres my draft reply:

    without prejudiceicon


    Dear Sir,


    I am writing in reply to your recent letter. I would like to correct your assertions:


    Firstly, It appears that your representative has miss-sold my gymicon membership and I have been coerced into agreeing to signing by miss-leading me (Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 & Misrepresentation Act 1967). To say that this person no longer works there and that you cannot be accountable for his actions is simply nonsense. They were in your employment at the time and acted on your behalf. Therefore by law you are very accountable.


    Secondly, they have clearly written on the agreement that there is NO 12 MONTHS CONTRACT. Unfortunately you cannot now retrospectively say that what has been written actually means something else in your favour. I was told verbally at the time that the 3 month cancelation period did not apply but also according to what is written there is no 12 months contract, how can conditions that relate to a 12 month contract be enforceable? You say that Bannatyne’s don’t amend individual contracts but in this instance your representative appears to have done precisely that by writing on the agreement. You even contradict yourselves.


    Thirdly, I’m actually disgusted by the attitude of Bannatyne’s towards its customers/ex-members. Rather than threatening me with court action you should be apologising to me for being miss-sold my membership and trying to correct your damaged reputation. It appears that you are more interested in dishonouring your agreements and lining your pockets rather than good customer relations. Considering the amount of money (approx 2500, so you are not at a loss) that Bannatyne’s have had out of me over the years I would have thought there would be some good will. However it just confirms the true nature of your business.


    To make my position clear, I do not agree to your claim and will not pay any further money to your business. If you make, or cause to be made, any adverse credit markers with any credit reference agency, I will take action against you for damage to my reputation. If you are foolish enough to take this to the county courticon then I warn you now I will defend my case as I have very strong grounds to dispute it.


    Due to your treatment of me I will make it my mission to never spend a single penny more with your company (or associated businesses), recommend your companies and negatively promote (within the law) your business by publicly declaring my experiences. This will cost you more than the amount you are trying to claim from me in loss of business. I will also be making a formal complaint to the OFT (Office of Fair Trading & Trading Standards).


    I trust I have made my position clear.


    Yours sincerely,

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    Hi Unhappy,

    No, I meant the fosicon as they deal with individual complaints.

    The OFT don't deal with individual cases, only great big ones like taking the banks to court over unfair bank charges (and then losing!!).

    The OFT are also, this week, starting their High Court action against Ashbourne Management, famous for their 36 month contracts which the OFT say are actually credit agreements.

    So amend your letter to show you'll complain to the FOS, and fire it off !

    8)

    Link 1. OFT Debt Coll'n Guide - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Link 2. Checking your credit Agreement - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html
    Link 3. Interest Tutorial - http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....erest_Tutorial
    Link 4. OFT Guide re s.78 CCA1974 Requests - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

    Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

    If I've been helpful, please click my scales.
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  18. #18
    Basic Account Holder Unhappy_ex_gym_member Novitiate

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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    Hi Slick,

    thanks and I've sent it off in recorded post today plus e-mailed them.

    Cheers!


  19. #19
    Basic Account Holder Unhappy_ex_gym_member Novitiate

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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    *****Update*******

    Here is the latest response by e-mail I have had back from Bannatyne's:

    Dear Mr

    Thank you for your email dated the 11th March 2011 in relation to the cancellation of your membership with our Health Club.

    In relation to your first point, we have no evidence to support your claim that you have been miss-sold your membership. It is unfortunate that we are unable to speak with the member of staff who you signed with, however the membership terms and conditions clearly state, the cancellation procedure which you have acknowledged that you have read and agreed to when signing the membership agreement.

    Secondly we have already confirmed that unfortunately we are unable to make comments about a conversation that only you and person no longer in employment with Bannatyne Fitness Ltd were privy to. We do allow previous members to rejoin with various benefits including not having to stay for a minimum term, however they sign an agreement to confirm they still have to honour the terms and conditions of using a Bannatyne Health Club including the required 3 months written notice to cancel the membership.

    Although we have no evidence to support your claim and we have a signed contract confirming you have agreed to the notice period required. We will as a final gesture of goodwillicon reduce the remaining contractual amount by 50% and therefore a settlement of 67.50 is offered to bring this matter to a close.

    We can confirm that no further offers will be made and should you decide not to make payment within 7 days this matter will be taken further.

    Yours sincerely

    Membership Administrator


    without prejudiceicon


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    Default Re: Bannatynes Gym 3 month cancelation period

    Ensure any further letters from you are also marked 'without prejudiceicon'. If they think they are clever then so you can be too.



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