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    • I'm still pondering/ trying to find docs re the above issue. Moving on - same saga; different issue I'm trying to understand what I can do: The lender/ mortgagee-in-possession has a claim v me for alleged debt. But the debt has only been incurred due to them failing to sell property in >5y. I'm fighting them on this.   I've been trying to get an order for sale for 2y.  I got it legally added into my counterclaim - but that will only be dealt with at trial.  This is really frustrating. The otherside's lawyers made an application to adjourn trial for a few more months - allegedly wanting to try sort some kind of settlement with me and to use the stay to sell.  At the hearing I asked Judge to expedite the order for sale. I pointed out they need a court-imposed deadline or this adjournment is just another time wasting tactic (with interest still accruing) as they have no buyer.  But the judge said he could legally only deal with the order at trial. The otherside don't want to be forced to sell the property.. Disclosure has presented so many emails which prove they want to keep it. I raised some points with the judge including misconduct of the receiver. The judge suggested I may have a separate claim against the receiver?   On this point - earlier paid-for lawyers said my counterclaim should be directed at the lender for interference with the receiver and the lender should be held responsible for the receiver's actions/ inactions.   I don't clearly understand that, but their legal advice was something to do with the role a receiver has acting as an agent for a borrower which makes it hard for a borrower to make a claim against a receiver ???.  However the judge's comment has got me thinking.  He made it clear the current claim is lender v me - it's not receiver v me.  Yet it is the receiver who is appointed to sell the property. (The receiver is mentioned/ involved in my counterclaim only from the lender collusion/ interference perspective).  So would I be able to make a separate application for an order for sale against the receiver?  Disclosure shows receiver has constantly rejected offers. He gave a contract to one buyer 4y ago. But colluded with the lender's lawyer to withdraw the contract after 2w to instead give it to the ceo of the lender (his own ltd co) (using same lawyer).  Emails show it was their joint strategy for lender/ ceo to keep the property.  The receiver didn't put the ceo under any pressure to exchange quickly.  After 1 month they all colluded again to follow a very destructive path - to gut the property.  My account was apparently switched into a "different fund" to "enable them to do works" (probably something to do with the ceo as he switched his ltd co accountant to in-house).   Interestingly the receiver told lender not to incur significant works costs and to hold interest.  The costs were huge (added to my account) and interest was not held.   The receiver rejected a good offer put forward by me 1.5y ago.  And he rejected a high offer 1y ago - to the dismay of the agent.  Would reasons like this be good enough to make a separate application to the court against the receiver for an order for sale ??  Or due to the main proceedings and/or the weird relationship a borrower has with a receiver I cannot ?
    • so a new powerless B2B debt DCA set up less than a month ago with a 99% success rate... operating on a NWNF basis , but charging £30 to set up your use of them. that's gonna last 5mins.... = SPAMMERS AND SCAMMERS. a DCA is NOT a BAILIFF and have  ZERO legal powers on ANY debt - no matter WHAT its type. dx      
    • Migrants are caught in China's manufacturing battles with the West, as Beijing tries to save its economy.View the full article
    • You could send an SAR to DCbl on the pretext that you are going for a breach of your GDPR . They should then send the purported letter of discontinuance which may show why it ended up in Gloucester and see if you can get your  costs back on the day. It obviously won't be much but  at least perhaps a small recompense for your wasted day. Not exactly wasted since you had a great win  albeit much sweeter if you had beat them in Court. But a win is a win so well done. We will miss you as it has been almost two years since you first started out on this mission. { I would n't be surprised if the wrong Court was down to DCBL}. I see you said "till the next time" but I am guessing you will be avoiding private patrolled car parks for a while.🙂
    • It is extremely disappointing that you haven't told us anything about the result of the hearing. You came here at the very last minute and the regulars - all unpaid volunteers - sweated blood trying to get an acceptable Witness Statement prepared in an extremely short time. The least you could have done is tell us how the hearing went, information invaluable for future users. Evidently not.
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Calculation of notice period - break clause


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Hello,

I am currently renting a house with a 12-month assured shorthold tenancy, with a break clause after 6 months which states that "either party may terminate this agreement by giving to the other at least 2 months advance written notice [...], such notice not to expire before 19th March 2011, which this tenancy shall terminate absolutely but without prejudice to any claim etc..."

 

The commencement date was on 20th September 2010 and I have advised the landlord on 5th February.

My understanding was that I would have to pay my rent until: 5th Feb + 2 months = 5th April,

However, the letting agent has confirmed receipt of my notice to leave and that I should pay until the 19th April (i.e. 2 months + following rent day).

 

I can't find any information explaining how a notice should be calculated in this case. I know that within a Periodic Tenancy agreement, it is normal to have the notice finishing on the rent day, but what is the situation with a break clause in a fixed term tenancy agreement (which I understand is my case as my AST run until Sept 2011)?

Can anybody help me on that?

Thanks in advance

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The LA is correct. The principle is that any notice period should give x months clear notice of intent.

So you serve Notice on or before 19th Feb, next rent due date is 20 Feb and you move out on the 19th March.

 

Note SERVED means received by LL not date posted so allow 2 postal deivery days when posting. If the Notice arrived on the 20th you are into a new rent period so in effect you would have to wait almost 2 months before being able to move.

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Have to disagree with Mariner51.

 

There is no requirement for a notice exercising a right to break to expire on a rent day unless the provisions of the break clause so provide. Further, no rent can be due in respect of any period after the tenancy ends.

 

For the record, a notice to quit must expire at the end of a tenancy period and not on a rent day.

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Thank you both for your replies, though it is a bit confusing.

 

Can I summarise to see if I understand well?

a-if notice after the end of AST (i.e. the tenancy has switched to periodic tenancy), a notice must end at the end of a tenancy period which means the day before rent day (in a classical automatic renewal month after month)

b-if notice given by the tenant during the AST, using a break clause, the notice does not have to expire on a rent day (=> in my case, 2 months = 2 months/60 days and not 2 months + until next rent day) [anything to support that just in case I need to argue with the letting agent?]

 

Thanks again

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a-if notice after the end of AST (i.e. the tenancy has switched to periodic tenancy), a notice must end at the end of a tenancy period STOP HERE which means the day before rent day (in a classical automatic renewal month after month)

 

Not quite. You are fine up to STOP HERE. Whilst rent periods and tenancy periods may coincide, they need not. What decides when the tenancy periods of a statutory AST end is the day the fixed term ends. So, if a fixed term ends on, say, 25th March the periodic tenancy must start on 26th March. Subsequent periods naturally follow on and, if the tenancy is monthly, the periods are from the 26th to the 25th of each month. When serving a notice to quit, the rule is that the notice may expire on the last or first day of a tenancy period. (Note: this rule does not apply to section 21 notices.)

 

b-if notice given by the tenant during the AST, using a break clause, the notice does not have to expire on a rent day (=> in my case, 2 months = 2 months/60 days and not 2 months + until next rent day) [anything to support that just in case I need to argue with the letting agent?]

 

Correct, unless the agreement provides otherwise.

 

There are two points you can put to the agent:

 

1. A notice exercising a break clause is not a notice to quit. Accordingly the rules relating to notices to quit do not apply. In any event notices to quit have to expire at the end of a period of the tenancy (and not a rent day - see above) and a fixed term is not divided into tenancy periods - it is simply one period.

 

2. Agents are always wrong.

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