I received a letter saying my commercial loan is due in full this month, It's impossible for me to do that!!

Can Natwest take back a commercial loan, my property and security?? It's for a business property there's 2 month's arrears, thing is there charging £35 for every default and due to personal problems which they know about they was more than happy 2 years ago to arrange overdraft facilities, last year they took it back, and that's when I started struggling, these £35 charges come to around £3000 which would be more than enough to cover the arrears. The annoying thing is the bank won't listen to me, as from next month the arrears will be up to date, we've started a new business and I already have orders in the region of what is outstanding, they won't give my business a chance to get going by the look of it. They have stated my account will be closed and anymoney outstanding be due in full.

Ok I'll open another bank account, but...

Is it possible to reclaim charges on a business account??

If I reclaim charges will that cause any problems on my loan account, will the bank get even more nasty with me?

Can they take my property off me in the space of 2 weeks?

Hope someone can help

Thanks in advance!!

Hi andy

Hopefully the guys can provide some constructive advice in the meantime heres some links:

http://www.smallbusiness.co.uk/

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/home

http://www.smarta.com/

Thanks for the quick reply!!

Thanks for the links, I've been with business link since we started business, I'm with one of there guys who is really helpful and put us in touch with new clients. I spoke with them about the bank problem and they seem quite surprised Natwest would deal with a customer in this way, his suggestion was hit them with a claim for bank charges but suggest they are used to offset the arrears. I just wanted to know if they could take my property for the sake of £2000 arrears.. Would the reclaim of charges be a feasible trade off, would the bank work something out if I made proceedings to claim back charges??

Thanks in advance

Could anyone advise which would be a good bank to open another account with?? or are they all pretty much the same?

Along with other Natwest problems I'm currently having I'd just like to know is it possible to reclaim a lot of £35 charges and just recently they have taken £1200 from my account and on my statement it just says 'Loan Adjustment' ?? I have a loan and that money was to clear one months arrears to get me back on track but it's now gone and I still have arrears?? The cashier at the bank was clueless and there was apparently no one available to speak to an angry me!!!

Help Please!!!

Thanks in advance!!!

Please reply someone!!! ;o)

Hi andy

The Supreme Court Ruling put paid to claiming bank charges back for the time being. But there are cases being handled by GLC (Govern Law Centre) that might open the doors again.

I would keep a record of them, maybe enter the charges into a spreadsheet ready to go when and if the doors open.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/consumer_affairs/article6932522.ece

Thanks for the reply, I've been scouring the forum and found a few posts regarding charges from a few months ago, I thought maybe it was still possible to an extent, I don't mind a small charge but £35 is extortion, in november it was £190 in charges, I've not deliberately run up charges I can't do anything about it sometimes but they do take advantage of that.

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As far as I am aware they can ask for it back. Two of my customers had the same demand, One went bankrupt and the other had 4 weeks to pay 250k or he had to pay 25% above the base rate. Im taking this as a business loan secured on a commercial propety?. They cant just take your property they will have to go through the courts so I would dispute the amount with and write in the letter you have a view of reclaiming the charges. Then when your court order comes get a stay put on to it and include the letter and write a few paragraphs to the judge that you are claiming the charges and they will cover the arrears, This will then stop the repossesion. Do not quote the CCA as it doesnt apply to businesses unless sole trader (I think).

Thanks for the advice, yes it's a sole trader account in my name so would CCA and CPR request apply the same as a personal account?? I've tried talking to an adviser to see if they would ease the pressure and let me earn some money as it was there decision to recall my overdraft which they lumped onto my loan for the property, that is why it's been so hard for me and with personal problems behind me I can make a go of it now, if i'm just given a chance, and he basically said well it's going to be even harder now as next week I will have no bank account or card processing facility!! They don't want my business and want the money back in full, they've had loads of money out of me over the last few years, arrangement fees for settling the overdraft and rearranging the loan facility was in the region of £8000 then all the charges circa £3400 plus £80,000 loan repayments over last 5 years, I borrowed 160k and they want 165k back, no wonder banks show mega profits and I'm broke :o(

Thanks for the replies guy's, I'm finding some really helpful stuff on here again!!

I am not sure but I would think sole traders come under the CCA. Take a look into it.

subbing

Move bank accounts. Try Barclays. It all depends what you need, shop around. ASAP.

Put in a claim. The OFT ruling was for personal accounts. No decision was made on business accounts.

Can they take my property off me in the space of 2 weeks?

This does seem desperately unfair. You need to look at your loan agreement to see if they can do this. Have they issued a Default Notice. As for personal assets, they would have to get a CCJ first.

I would put in an "Official Complaint" direct to Natwest/RBS head office. Outline all your issues and highlight the conduct of the bank. Withdrawing the overdraft, the excessive & unfair charges, refusal to listen and understand. Especially as part of the deal to bail out the RBS, was that some of the £93 Billion would be used to help small business's.

Banks were brilliant at offering umbrellas when the sun was shining, but as soon as it started raining, they withdrew the offer.......

Look at what is best for you, your family & business. Look at all the options available.

Thanks for all the advise, it's good to hear it's not just me but bad at the same time I'm working on getting some equity released on my house which is easier said than done with adverse credit but if I can sort something out on that front I can clear my arrears and put something into the business to aid turnover, it's all I can think of doing at the moment along with trying to lodge a claim for all the charges. I've been passed over to an SRM and it's all about their money and how I'm going to give it back, not how I'm doing and they know nothing about what I'm trying to achieve or even have a slight interest unlike when I first started and they couldn't do enough for me financially. Tough times!!

Times are hard for aloit of businesses and borrowing is tough but not impossible. If you have adverse credit then its even harder.

Things are going from bad to worse, my house is being repossessed due to past business trouble, I got a tenant in and had no rent for 6 months but there due to leave and my brother has now offered to buy the property at mortgage cost about 30k with an option for me to buy back when things are better hopefully, I've just got a copy of the title deeds with possession order paperwork and it states a second charge from Natwest for my commercial loan, I was unaware of this but now it's a problem as I'm not on best terms with Natwest.

It States Restriction : No disposition of the registered estate by the proprietor of the registered estate, or by the proprietor of any future registered charge, is to be registered without written consent signed by the proprietor for the time being of the charge dated 5 years ago in favour of natwest.

I've spoke to a solicitor and they will not do anything until I have this written consent, do I need another solicitor, is there a way around it, I'm in arrears with natwest but I'm doing this to try and get straight and the property natwest have loaned on is more than adequate as security that's why I was suprised to see the restriction on my house because I have no recollection whatsoever of agreeing to that, I've been trying to contact someone at natwest but they say I have to write in and explain the purpose of lifting the restriction then they will decide, time is running out and I don't know what else I can do??

The frustrating part is business is starting to improve I'm getting new orders every week and last month we trippled our previous months turnover but the bank doesn't want my business!!!

Any advice would be appreciated

Thanks in advance.

There is no way around this - unless you are claiming that you a) did not consent to the charging order, or b) the charging order was subsequently obtained following a judgment (you state you are arrears with Natwest, hence me wondering if a charge has been obtained and you simply didn't attend the hearing).

The easiest way to solve this is to obtain consent from Natwest - they cannot unreasonably withhold it - however they will probably be suspicious - they may think that you are disposing of your assets for less money than they are worth in order to avoid your obligations (the option to buy back coupled with selling for a nominal 30k - the house has to be worth more than that). So you need to be careful as the refusal from Natwest may be based on things you might find difficult to disprove - and so long as their belief in it is reasonable, they can withhold consent.

Properties are generally transferred from one owner to the other only after the charges recorded against them have been discharged, and if not, the the charge holder has an overriding interest in the property, which pre-exists the new owner, and therefore the new owner will be bound. Now, since it's your brother who is purchasing the property, he may well not have an issue with this - but an unrelated buyer would run a mile. So long as your brother has independent legal advice to advise him of the specifics of purchasing a property with an existing charge, then things shouldn't prove too difficult to proceed once consent is granted.

To be clear - it is your brother who needs further legal advice and it is you who needs to obtain the relevant consent from Natwest (or instruct your solicitor to request consent).

Thanks for the reply, reason I asked was the first solicitor I spoke to said NO point blank can't be done without paying monies to remove the Restriction, I've since spoke to another solicitor who was not telling me what to do but mentioned some of the things you put in your post, basically asking for the restriction to be lifted and reapplied once the property is transferred, I'm not disposing of it, need some money to get straight and I have property with equity in it and a lender who is prepared to deal with my brother, we work together on the same business so it's trying to work out what is going to work for us.

I was unaware of the Restriction on the deeds, I was told at the time the building I was purchasing was adequate security and I also paid 25% deposit, It states the charge was applied at the time of purchase. I will try to get my solicitor to ask the bank if this is feasable, I don't want to talk to them, this specialised relationship manager I've been passed over to makes me flip I feel like going berserk when I talk to him and I'm never ever like that with anyone, I think it's with all the things they have done to me and all the threats have run me to breaking point.

Thanks for the reply!! ;o)

If you were not aware of the charge being applied at the time of the loan, then I would strongly suggest you contact the solicitor who dealt with the matter and ask them to explain what happened. You should have been made aware of it if it was a condition of the loan.

I would also strongly suggest that any communication you have with the bank over this matter should be in writing, firstly so that there can be no doubt about what is being requested, and hopefully what is being consented to, but secondly because it is easier to put things in writing without getting annoyed or irate at the person on the other end of the phone!

Good luck, and I hope it all works out for you. It sounds to me that so long as your brother takes independent legal advice, and is no doubt as to what he is getting into, that there seems no reasonable reason why the consent should be withheld.

Thanks for the reply!

It's a long story but I'll cut it short, I bought the business off a friend who I'd known for years (or so I thought) with me being trusting and naive I took his advice on using the same firm of solicitor's I now know this was a major conflict of interest as the firm only has one office and one person capable of conveyancing, it turned out the solicitor was a very good personal friend of the vendor (my so called friend) I knew nothing of the Restriction on my property being applied and know I've been stupid trusting someone this far as the problems I've had with the business have been in existence since before I purchased it and nothing about them was disclosed to me. Some people have said I should pursue the matter but apart from being unable to afford it at the moment I know I've been badly advised. I'm still hopeful I can turn things around tho!!

Thanks for the advice!

Last 3 years have been hell with Natwest, I have a small shop which is on a commercial loan with my house as security.

Business has been difficult especially with some serious problems and whilst I had money to cover repayments they was also keen to offer me overdraft facilities across 3 accounts upto 40k 3 years ago, within a year of these facilities in place they wanted it back, I asked why the panic all of a sudden and they just said it's been passed over, my bank manager no longer wanted anything to do with me??

this Natwest person suggested consolodating one of the overdrafts onto my shop loan and converting 2 accounts into a loan, seperate businesses, on the strength that after a period of good banking they will be reinstated, I thought it was odd but natwesr gave me no choice and I was lead to believe they was helping.

Now Natwest want to enforce there security ie take my house and shop, I registered a complaint with federation of small business who suggested I contact the fos, Natwest replied basically saying we are not upholding your complaint if you don't like it you can register a complaint with fos, but that is were the complaint come from. Last friday I received a pack from shoosmiths basically saying we having been instructed to enforce the banks security and proceed to take your property, they have given me 3 working days from receipt.

I'm walking round in a daze but I know this problem is real and they will take everything I have worked for and made myself skint for over the last 6 years, 3 great and 3 hell.

The bank won't listen, tried all ways and all this person told me was to go to another lender borrow money from somewhere else, which I can't, just no sense and verbally threatened to take my property, and to only use the account to pay them what they are owed, (which I have recorded) and generally treat me like ****,

I even went into a branch to get a printout so I can see how much they have taken and after being made to wait 20mins I got called into a side room and handed a telephone with someone on the other end telling me off for trying to use the bank and my proposals for paying everything back.

They haven't sent me a bank statement for a year, I have no facilities, all my credits they take 2 or 3 times a month they empty my bank account. I just don't know what to do, battled for so long they have worn me down and out.

Thanks for reading hope someone can offer me some advice??

For a start you should think about getting a parachute account and ensure that any income is paid into the new account. Do make sure that you dont go to a bank that is connected to the NW group.. Which will be LTSB, HBoS, I think.

I dont understand where you say Shoesmiths have sent you a pack that states they have been instructed to enforce the Bank's security..

Have they issued a claim against you?

Please stop telephoning these people and start communicating in writing, unless you have the facility to record the entire conversation.

I am sure others will be along soon to offer some advice.

Thanks for your reply, and advice, they usually ring me I have had very little in writing, Shoosmiths have sent a covering letter saying

they act for natwest, we have been instructed that the debt is due and owing as secured by legal charges given by me. in the absence of payment we have been instructed to commence legal proceedings to seek recovery of property.

We have been instructed by our client wrote to you in accordance with the requirements of the Mortgage Pre Action Protocol. In the absence of any acceptable payment proposal and in the absence of any request from you to delay issue of proceedings for any reason then you should treat this letter as a demand for payment of the debt owing and as a letter of warning that proceedings will be commenced after 7 days.

In order that you are aware of a claim against you we have enclosed the following.

legal charges

cca notice

formal demands

statement of liability

MPAP letters and checklist

In the event you have proposal to pay this debt or in the event that you consider that our client should postpone or delay the issue of proceedings I should contact them.

You should inform us if any of the following apply

you have proposal to repay whether by lump sum or installments

you require our client to consider a change in payment method

you submit a claim to an insurer under mortgage protection

you have submitted a complaint to the financial ombudsman

you have the properties for sale

If you do nothing the court may award a possession order in our clients favour which may result in losing your home.

They literally empty my account a few times a month, whether it's £100 or £1500 they take everything. I've tried all year to come to an arrangement and all they have insisted on is repayment in full. They have had money every month all I wanted to do was make an arrangement, systematically ruined my business, turnover is half what is was with them doing what they are, my major worry is 3 of us will be unemployed a business established 30 years will be gone and I will have no home, the property will not cover what is owed, the business would if they helped us. It's a commercial loan not a mortgage does the same documentation still apply??

Right so at this stage they are just following procedure.

You MUST start looking for a new bank account immediately and have your income paid into that.. what they are doing is called offsetting. However, I believe they are not permitted to take ALL your money and leave you nothing for other priority living expenses/creditors.

The Co-op I believe is worth a look. It might only be a basic account, but you will have access to online banking.

Have you made written proposals for the disposal of the debt owed?

For the moment, I think you need to ensure you have all the information you might require should they go ahead with their plan to start litigation. I will try and find some help for you.

Hi andy

Have they mis-sold PPI on any of the accounts you hold or held with them, overdraft, loan etc?

Sorry I meant to say this is my business account they raid money from, It's a sole trader account. I've been using my personal account to buy stock and pay bills but cheque and card payments the Natwest take and HMRC don't believe the bank have not sent any statements for a year and will not accept the truth as to why I have to work like this.