Thread: T4FF vs Barclaycard **WON**

Hi all.

Have started proceedings, so thought I'd pop a post in........

Just sent off my Data Protection Act letter for credit card held with Barclaycard. Wait to hear a response.

Think I am going to run into some problems as the account was closed around two years ago and since then I have moved house. Have no doubt they will make things difficult for me.

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Had a response from Barclays........

Thank you for your letter dated 1st September 2006 requesting personal information held by Barclaycard.

Unfortunately we are unable to provide you with data relating to your Barclaycard as the account number you have provided is invalid. Furthermore, we have been unable to locate an account in your name registered at the addresses you have provided.

The Data Protection Act 1998 provides you with the right of access to your own personal data, however, before that data can be made available to you we must be in receipt of sufficient information in order to locate the information you seek.

I am sorry that this may not be the outcome you expected.

Should you have any further questions regarding this matter please do not hestitate to contact me. If my reply does not meet with your expectations you may ultimately be eligible to refer to the Financial Ombudsman Service Further details of this service are available on request.

If I have not heard fronm you within 8 weeks from the data of this letter, I will close my file in accordance with usual practice.

DAMN DAMN DAMN

They have a big loop hole here in that I've moved address and I go and give them a nice easy get out clause by mistyping the last digit of my account number. Grrrrr

I should have done this in the first place, but I've now sent a response providing them with a previous statement as proof of the account number, a copy of my driving licence as proof of my identity and a copy of a recent bank statement as proof of my new address. Both copies have been signed for their authenticity by my local bank so they can't really argue this time.

The fact that he is "unable to locate an account in your name registered at the address you provided" is rubbish and is obviously him just playing games.

Must learn to double check things!

Hi all, I've received a response from Barclaycard stating that they are unable to provide statements from earlier that May 2004 as any information prior to that has been placed on microfiche though having searched through the forums, you already knew that was going to happen.....

Statements held prior to May 2004 are stored on Microfiche. The statements are copied onto the microfiche in date order and more that one customer statement may be held on an individual film of microfiche. These statements are not stored by reference to account number or customer name and are not "readily accessible" within the meaning of the Data Protection Act. These statements are therefore not retained in a relevant filing system and therefore do not fall within the class of documents to be produced pursuant to a Subject access request. They can be obtained from our Customer Services Department at a cost of £3 per statement.

The problem I have is that my account was settled April 2005 so I only have a years worth of statements to look through (and a load of blank sheets for the months after April 2005 up to the present – Barclaycard taking the pi55 I feel). Having read through a number of cases, the impression I get is that this is in fact incorrect and that the majority of people are therefore complaining to the ICO about Barclaycard, Abbey et al.

My own understanding of the DPA is that regardless of what filing system my data is held on, they have on record somewhere data held about me for the last 6 years. They are therefore duty-bound to provide me with that data. The filing system is their problem, not mine. Is this correct?

I've found a website which lists the DPA act….

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1998/19980029.htm

….and from this I have obtained the following:

(From section1)

In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires, "data" means information which-
(a) is being processed by means of equipment operating automatically in response to instructions given for that purpose,
(b) is recorded with the intention that it should be processed by means of such equipment,
(c) is recorded as part of a relevant filing system or with the intention that it should form part of a relevant filing system, or
(d) does not fall within paragraph (a), (b) or (c) but forms part of an accessible record as defined by section 68;

(From section 7)

(1) Subject to the following provisions of this section and to sections 8 and 9, an individual is entitled-

(a) to be informed by any data controller whether personal data of which that individual is the data subject are being processed by or on behalf of that data controller,
(b) if that is the case, to be given by the data controller a description of-
(i) the personal data of which that individual is the data subject,
(ii) the purposes for which they are being or are to be processed, and
(iii) the recipients or classes of recipients to whom they are or may be disclosed,
(c) to have communicated to him in an intelligible form-
(i) the information constituting any personal data of which that individual is the data subject, and
(ii) any information available to the data controller as to the source of those data, and
(d) where the processing by automatic means of personal data of which that individual is the data subject for the purpose of evaluating matters relating to him such as, for example, his performance at work, his creditworthiness, his reliability or his conduct, has constituted or is likely to constitute the sole basis for any decision significantly affecting him, to be informed by the data controller of the logic involved in that decision-taking.

Taking these points into account, they clearly aren’t doing what is said above. I’m going to use the abbey letter found here….

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk/forum/abbey-bank/4031-abbey-microfiche-argument.html

….and amend it for Barclaycard, but wanted to add some of the above to the letter. My impression is that they are preying on the weak – testing the water to see how much you really know about what you are doing in the hope of you backing down. I therefore want to show I know what I’m talking about. Are these valid points to raise?

I've pulled together the following letter to respond to the microfiche letter I've received. I have taken the Abbey letter (link above) and amended it in order to incorporate some of the points I have made above. Before I send it, any thoughts?

I am in receipt of your letter dated xx/xx/xxxx, outlining that you could only provide me with printouts covering recent transactions on my account, because any earlier information has been archived onto microfiche. My request was for a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my account since xx/xxxx – in short, a list of charges with dates and amounts – alternatively, a complete set of account statements for that period.

I am aware that you have been willing and able to provide other customers with a printout of transaction information covering this period – and I am ready to bring this to the attention of the Information Commissioner should it prove necessary. I would also draw your attention to Smith v Lloyds TSB Bank plc (2005) EWHC 246 (Ch).


You state in your letter that the data stored on microfiche is not covered by the meaning of the Data Protection Act. Having read through the Data Protection Act personally, I wish to bring your attention to some of the points within it. In section 1 it states:


…."data" means information which…. is recorded as part of a relevant filing system or with the intention that it should form part of a relevant filing system.


And Section 7 states:


….an individual is entitled….to be informed by any data controller whether personal data of which that individual is the data subject is being processed by….that data controller. If that is the case, to be given by the data controller a description of the personal data of which that individual is the data subject [and] to have communicated to him in an intelligible form…. the information constituting any personal data of which that individual is the data subject....


Furthermore, there is no mention of any exceptions to these points that cover data held on microfiche or the fact that the data is not “readily available”. Regardless of what system, or what form the information you hold on me is kept, you are required by the Data Protection Act to disclose this information to me.


In your letter you inform me that the statements are available from your Customer Services department at £3 a statement – but also insist that the information I require is not readily available. Surely a contradiction in terms? You also state that your computer systems do not permit you to print historic data or identify individual charges applied to an account. Again, how can this be so when your Customer Services department can perform the very same action?


I do not accept that I should have to pay £3 per statement for this information – I have already sent you a cheque for £10 which is the maximum I should expect to pay for this.


This letter has been sent by first class recorded delivery, and therefore should have reached you by xx/xx/xxxx – as you will be aware, as of this date you have xx days in which to comply with my request. As stated above, a complete set of account statements for the period in question will be acceptable. However, I expect this to be provided within the time period for Data Protection Act compliance.


Should there be any further attempts to delay compliance, I will be left with no alternative but to commence a county court action under section 7, and section 15(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998, and in due course, escalate this matter into an official complaint to the Information Commissioner and the FSA.



Yours faithfully

Anyone?

Was hoping to get this out before the weekend.....

Hiya, ive got mine ready to post today! I didnt know what to do for the best either. Ive taken out the bit about smith V Lloyds bit as ive read on here that they think it supports their point anyhows. So i will be curious to know if their reply will mention that court case? as they prob have a standard letter.
So no advice but just letting you know your not alone.

Response sent on 02/10

I am in receipt of your letter dated 26/09/2006, outlining that you could only provide me with printouts covering recent transactions on my account, because any earlier information has been archived onto microfiche. My request was for a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my account since September 2000 – in short, a list of charges with dates and amounts – alternatively, a complete set of account statements for that period.

I am aware that you have been willing and able to provide other customers with a printout of transaction information covering this period – and I am ready to bring this to the attention of the Information Commissioner should it prove necessary.

You state in your letter that the data stored on microfiche is not covered by the meaning of the Data Protection Act. Having read through the Data Protection Act myself, I wish to bring your attention to some of the points within it. In section 1 it states:

…."data" means information which…. is recorded as part of a relevant filing system or with the intention that it should form part of a relevant filing system.

And Section 7 states:

….an individual is entitled….to be informed by any data controller whether personal data of which that individual is the data subject is being processed by….that data controller. If that is the case, to be given by the data controller a description of the personal data of which that individual is the data subject [and] to have communicated to him in an intelligible form…. the information constituting any personal data of which that individual is the data subject....

Furthermore, there is no mention of any exceptions to these points that cover data held on microfiche or the fact that the data is not “readily available”. Regardless of what system, or what form the information you hold on me is kept, you are required by the Data Protection Act to disclose this information to me.

In your letter you inform me that the statements are available from your Customer Services department at £3 a statement – but also insist that the information I require is not readily available. Surely a contradiction in terms? You also state that your computer systems do not permit you to print historic data or identify individual charges applied to an account. How can this be so when your Customer Services department can perform the very same action?

I do not accept that I should have to pay £3 per statement for this information – I have already sent you a cheque for £10 which is the maximum I should expect to pay for this.

This letter has been sent by first class recorded delivery, and therefore should have reached you by 03/10/2006 – as you will be aware, as of this date you have 32 days in which to comply with my request. As stated above, a complete set of account statements for the period in question will be acceptable. However, I expect this to be provided within the time period for Data Protection Act compliance.

Should there be any further attempts to delay compliance, I will be left with no alternative but to commence a county court action under section 7, and section 15(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998, and in due course, escalate this matter into an official complaint to the Information Commissioner and the FSA.



Yours faithfully

Had a response from Barclays. Not going to write it all out, but simply they've acknowledged I'm dissatisfied then gone on to repeat exactly what they say in the first letter.

What options do I have now? My statements don't go back far enough for me to get any real indication of what charges I've received in total and my charges from 07/2004 - 02/2005 total £168.00 + £10.72. I've no real idea if the period before 07/2004 was worse or better than the period afterwards.

Should I buy the statements then claim the money back at a later date? How else can I go about doing this?

I've been doing some reading through other posts again. I've decided to prepare a prelim letter for the charges I am aware of (£168.00 + £10.72) with a view of taking up my fight for the pre May 2004 at a later date.

In order to obtain the rest of the statements, I am going to make a complaint to the Information Commissioners as discussed here. Assuming at some point in the future I get hold of my records, I will then look to claim back the rest of my charges.

However, before I do any of this, I've sent an email to the money section of the Observer money.writes@observer.co. uk. They deal with people's financial problems on a weekly basis and the best of the bunch get put in the paper on a Sunday. Don't know if it will help at all - all depends on if mine gets "chosen" I suppose. Finger's crossed it does and we'll see what the Observer says / does. Barclaycard are taking the pi55 and I really hope that this makes the paper.

Just posting an update. The Observer has picked up my email!!! My details are with Money Writes and am waiting a response!

Hello,
I will have a word with Barclaycard about your request, although I do not know if it will make any difference. Can you please let me know your card number and your address? Thanks.
Best wishes
Margaret

Before anyone panics for me about my card details / address being sent, I have also had the email address verified, so no worries there.

Will keep you posted of what happens.

Hi TF44, I had the same letter and have emailed my response today, does seem a bit quiet in the Barclaycard forum, not many mods offering advise! ah well maybe we can etch it out between us, if you look at my post i have quoted Abbey and the fact that the Microfiche was a relevant system, we surley cant have double standards within the Banking fraternity

Originally Posted by Bignig32

Hi TF44, I had the same letter and have emailed my response today, does seem a bit quiet in the Barclaycard forum, not many mods offering advise!

*Whispers* Does seem a tad quiet, though plenty of help around the boards - having plenty of help around other areas (RBS especially). Hopefully someone will crack it soon. I don't buy this rubbish about microfiche being a system that doesn't qualify as a filing system - it IS a freaking filing system Furthermore, I've worked all my life for Financial companies and none of them have been that incapable of obtaining historical data. You HAVE to keep records of this sort of thing for audit purposes as well as DPA requests.

I maybe clutching at straws with this Observer bit, but I thought to try it as it's something different. Everyone is doing the SAME thing and everyone is getting stuck at the SAME junction, so I figured I try another route. HOPEFULLY I may get somewhere.

To me the [problem] is in the fact that for £3 per sheet they can retrive data in a statement format, if this is the case this is stored digitaly and accessed via an archive retrival system, correct me if i am wrong Microfiche is stored on film? this being the case the only way to retrive this would be via an image scan or a person typing the data, with this in mind i bet if i requested 1 statement for £3 it would be in the exact same format as the ones recived from May 04 onwards. Can anybody back up my thoughts on this? i bet it would hold good ground with a Judge, i also would be interested to hear if anybody has paid for a statemeent and was it in the same format? indicating one archival retrival system.

There's that too. If Customer Services can access the records, then the records are accessible. It's all a load of bollox imo.

Perhaps that's what we need to do next - has anyone received their £3 statements? What do they look like? Are they copy statements ie like your originals or are they in the same format as the post 2004 printouts you received as part of your DPA request?

Looks like there has been some progress........

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...s-against.html

Quick update........

Made some progress. Have made a complaint to the ICO and had a response saying they will look into this. I shall wait and see.

Correction!

Just getting up to date with posts and spotted that ICO have ruled against Barclaycard!

Am therefore sending this letter off tomorrow:

I am responding to your letter dated 6th October 2006 regarding the above account. You have previously stated that data held on your microfiche system is not “readily accessible” and therefore not retained in a relevant filing system and as a result “does not fall within the class of documents to be produced pursuant to a Subject access request”.

I have recently since learnt that the Information Commissioners Office has ruled your microfiche system as a relevant filing system. I therefore expect you to satisfy my request in full. Having not returned it to me, you should still be in possession of my £10 cheque and therefore believe that this letter should be sufficient to complete my request.

My initial request for this information was sent to you on 21st September 2006 – over 80 days ago, I therefore expect you to complete my request promptly. If you do not complete my request within a reasonable amount of time, I will issue proceedings for non-compliance without further notice.



Yours faithfully

Lol, that is quite interesting reading!!!

Unfortunately, my letter has already gone. That will be next