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    • Yes, Hotpoint UK has been a subsidiary of Whirlpool for over 20 years. And unlike some domestic goods manufacturers you can buy from them direct and I believe they employ their own service engineers, Is that your situation? You bought direct from Hotpoint and Hotpoint sent out their own engineer?
    • It's Hotpoint (but I believe they're part of the Whirlpool group now?). The part was bought direct from them as a consumer.
    • Thanks BankFodder for your latest, I'm in complete agreement on the subject of mediation and will be choosing to decline mediation, the longer timeline is not an issue for me, I will happily let the going to court run it's course. I really appreciate the support from the Consumer Action Group. I'll post the email text I'm sending to Evri's small claims in answer to their recent defence response. Regards, J    email text I'm sending to Evri's small claims in answer to their recent defence response:  
    • Sec127 (3) repealed, now gone. S. 127(3)-(5) repealed (6.4.2007) by Consumer Credit Act 2006 (c. 14), ss. {15}, 70, 71(2), {Sch. 4} (with Sch. 3 para. 11); S.I. 2007/123, art. 3(2), Sch. 2
    • We used to recommend that people accept mediation but our advice has changed. The mediation process is unclear. Before you can embark on it you have to agree that you are prepared to enter a compromise – and that means that you agree that you are prepared to give up some of your rights even though you are completely in the right and you are entitled to hundred percent of your money and even though EVRi are simply trying to obstruct you in order to discourage you and also to put others who might want to follow your example off from claiming and even though they have a legitimate basis for reimbursement. Mediation is not transparent. In addition to having to sign up that you are prepared to give up some of your rights, you will also have to agree not to reveal any details of the mediation – including the result of the mediation – so that the whole thing is kept secret. This is not open justice. Mediation has nothing to do with justice. The only way of getting justice is to make sure that this matter goes to trial unless EVRi or the other parcel delivery companies put their hands up and accept the responsibility even if they do it is a gesture of goodwill. Going to trial and winning at trial produces a judgement which we can then add to our small collection to assist other people who are in a similar boat. EVRi had been leading you around by the nose since at least January – and probably last year as well – and their whole purpose is simply to drag it out, to place obstacles in your way, to deter other people, and to make you wish that you'd never started the process and that you are prepared to give up your 300 quid. You shouldn't stand for it. You should take control. EVRi would prefer that you went to mediation and if nothing else that is one excellent reason why you should decline mediation and go to court. If it's good for them it's bad for you. On mediation form, you should sign that you are not prepared to compromise and that you are not prepared to keep the result secret but that you want to share the results with other people in similar circumstances. This means that the mediation won't go ahead. It will take slightly longer and you will have to pay a court fee but you will get that back when you win and you will have much greater satisfaction. Also, once you go the whole process, you will learn even more about bringing a small claim in the County Court so that if this kind of thing happens again you will know what to do and you will go ahead without any hesitation. Finally, if you call EVRi's bluff and refuse mediation and go to trial, there is a chance – maybe not a big chance – but there is a chance that they will agree to pay out your claim before trial simply in order to avoid a judgement. Another judgement against them will simply hurt the position even more and they really don't want this. 300 quid plus your costs is peanuts to them. They don't care about it. They will set it off against tax so the taxpayer will make their contribution. It's all about maintaining their business model of not being liable for anything, and limiting or excluding liability contrary to section 57 and section 72 of the consumer rights act.     And incidentally, there is a myth that if you refuse mediation that somehow it will go against you and the judge will take a dim view and be critical of you. This is precisely a myth. It's not true. It would be highly improper if any judge decided the case against you on anything other than the facts and the law of the case. So don't worry about that. The downside of declining mediation is that your case will take slightly longer. The upside is that if you win you will get all your money and you will have a judgement in your favour which will help others. The chances of you winning in this case are better than 95% and of course you would then receive 100% of your claim plus costs
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Annual Travel Insurance - claiming cancellation after expiry?


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Hello all. I've posted on a few forums to see if anyone has similar experiences to us or can offer any help.

 

My partner and I had a holiday to the USA booked (flight, car hire, kennels, parking and one night's hotel) from the 18th September.

 

We had an annual insurance policy which expired on the 13th August. I was intending to replace this with a more competitive policy. However, on the 12th August my partner sustained a serious sprain to her ankle and is still unable to walk.

 

With the injury in mind I phoned the insurer we were with to ask if we would be covered if we did renew. I was told that we would not be covered for an existing injury at the time of renewal and would have to find specific insurance elsewhere. At this time we were not really concerned about the forthcoming holiday as it was 5 weeks away and the A&E department advised she would be walking within 1 to 2 weeks. With that in mind, I bought another policy on the 17th August.

 

Unfortunately, now it is apparent that our holiday is under threat. She still has not been able to walk and is now in an aircast after being reassessed by an orthopedic consultant. She has been advised to elevate her leg at all time while not walking and hence could be declared medically unfit to travel as the flight would not be practical.

 

Obviously our new policy does not cover us for any cancellation but I was wondering if the old policy (now expired) would do. The terms seem to suggest otherwise but I wondered if anyone has some specific experience of a similar event.

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Would have thought the old policy would cover the cancellation, as the injury occured during the old policies contract period. If it is not covered, can you post the exact policy terms and conditions that are being used to disallow the claim.

 

The claim event is the date the injury is sustained, so as long as you have proof of visiting a GP or hospital on the 12th August, you should be ok. If she did not visit the GP or Hospital until after 12th August, she would not be covered.

We could do with some help from you.

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She did visit the A&E department of our local hospital on the 12th August and was seen then, so a record of this should exist.

 

I have attached the T&Cs of the policy in PDF form. It mentions under the heading "Cancellation" on page 3 that the outbound and inward travel have to take place during the policy duration.......

OUL_PW_170709.pdf

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I see. Yes I think you are correct. The Insurers will stick to the policy wording and they won't allow the claim.

 

If you need claim because you can't travel, I think you are going to have to make a complaint, using the Insurers complaints process and then pass your complaint to the FOS. The FOS could view the policy terms as being unfair, in that if you booked your trip before the renewal date and the injury occured just before the renewal date, you would only ever be covered, if you maintained Insurance with the same company.

 

In have just looked at the Direct Line policy and they appear to cover cancellation provided the reason for cancellation occurs before the renewal date. If you are going to go forward with a complaint, do a bit of research to see how other companies deal with this. The reason for doing this, is to evidence that the policy terms provided by OUL are unfair.

 

As a by the way. If you ever take out Insurance in the future, stay clear of companies that are registered in Gibraltar. I think Great Lakes who underwrite the policy are a US company, that is registered in Gibraltar for their UK business.

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Thanks for the comments. It's pretty much as I thought.

 

Going down the claiming and complaining route is quite a high risk strategy at the end of the day because by the time of resolution the costs of the holiday will be lost. Whereas we can move it for a not-unsubstantial but nevertheless affordable fee.......

 

I shall probably avoid buying this kind of insurance in the future and stick to single trip solutions.

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Yes I think you are wise to re-arrange the trip. If you complained the FOS could take a very long time to deal with any claim.

 

If you look for Insurance in the future, don't touch many of the companies that come up on the comparison sites. A cheap premium can only mean cheap cover. As you have found out, it is what the policy actually covers when you need to claim, that really matters.

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As an additional question....if I did rearrange I think I would likely incur costs of around £500 to £600 all in. Would it be worth claiming for this on the policy and then going down the complaint route? That way there would be nothing to lose......

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Yes you could give it a try. The difficulty is that you won't know whether your partners doctor will advise against travel until nearer the time. If you rearrange your trip before you got this advice in writing, it could be put down as disinclination to travel with a cast on the ankle/leg, rather then something medical. Disinclination to travel for any reason, would not be covered by any Insurance.

 

What I would suggest that you do is speak to the old Insurers customer relations team that handles claims complaints. Advise them of the situation and see what they say. This cannot be a situation that they have not encountered before. They must realise that the policy terms could be seen as unfair and that people will refer their claims compliants to the FOS.

 

The point is that if the medical situation would normally have been covered by the cancellation terms of the policy, the bit about the trips onward and return becomes a mute point. If the trip cannot take place due to something i.e accident or onset of illness that occured during the contract period, this must be covered. They cannot insert a term requiring the renewal of the policy as a necessity to enable the fulfillment of a contractural term, from a previous contract period.

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She did visit the A&E department of our local hospital on the 12th August and was seen then, so a record of this should exist.

 

I have attached the T&Cs of the policy in PDF form. It mentions under the heading "Cancellation" on page 3 that the outbound and inward travel have to take place during the policy duration.......

 

I think you may be misreading this. Cancellation cover finishes when you start your outbound journey. What you are referring to relates to the other sections.

 

But I think it is more likely to be an issue that cancellation did not take place during the policy period.

 

It's quite poorly worded as I cannot see how it treats people who have annual policies who book a holiday that overlaps two policy years - other than badly!

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Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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Bernie

 

The way I was reading this, is that it is the date of the 'event' that is seen as the proximate cause that causes the cancellation, this is relevant here. The accident occured before the renewal date and if this accident causes the cancellation, then the policy should provide over.

 

I think the point you are making, is the need for cancellation might not occur until after the renewal date, at the point when the doctor declares that they are not fit to travel. This would be contrary to how Insurance normally works. It is the date of the 'proximate cause' that is relevant.

We could do with some help from you.

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I'm not sure we know that. I understand proximate cause. There appears to have been a deterioration in the injured party's condition. This could be something new in the "chain of events". I cannot even see that there has been medical advice to cancel yet.

 

The central point I am making is that if cancellation is necessary a claim should be made under this policy and that I think that if it is denied because outbound and return travel are not during the period of insurance then that is challengable.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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Yes agreed. It would help their cause if they had a doctors note confirming that the original injury was the reason for the advice not to travel and not a deterioration to the original injury. This would be good to get, if they had to cancel the trip, but this is all just theory as the doctor may say that they are fit to travel.

 

I can see the Insurers arguing the toss if a claim is made and they might have to go the distance including referral to the FOS if necessary. Some Insurers will pay out to avoid the FOS, due to the case fee they have to pay.

We could do with some help from you.

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