Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Peter McCormack says "ambition is big" and Real Bedford's attendances are increasing with promotions.View the full article
    • How does one obtain the permit? The permit team number is only open between the hours of 9am to 3pm Mon - Fri. It says on the website, To obtain an additional 2 hours, the driver must pay a tariff of £3.00 + booking fees in person at our Security Hut, is that how you get the permit also, from the security hut? What a rigmaroll that would be but maybe just another step to take to try and catch people out?
    • Anotheruser0000 bear in mind that not all Judges are equally versed in the PoFA regulations. Fortunately now most of them are but sometimes a Judge from a higher Court sits in who is well experienced  in Law but not PoFA. and so they sometimes go "offkey" because their knowledge can raise a different set of arguments and solutions. It does seem particularly unfair  when the decision is so  bad . it can also be that in some situations the motorist being a lay person is not sufficiently know ledgeable to be able to counter a Judge's decisions in a way that a barrister could.
    • The argument about the date of receipt is now dead because the PCN  does not comply with the wording  of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  First reason Section 9 [2] [e]  "state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges;" Second Reason Section 9 [2][a] "specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;" All your PCN does is mark the time you entered and left the car park. It does not include all the myriad things you do in between-driving into the car park, looking for a parking space-perhaps a disabled space or  parent and Child place@ getting the children or disabled person out of the car then going shopping. Coming back; loading the car with shopping [, getting the children or disabled into the car, taking the trolley back to the store; driving to the exit perhaps stopping to let vehicles/pedestrians cross in front of you etc. so subtracting the driving times from before and after parking can make quite a difference from their time to the actual period parking time. So the upshot is now that only the driver is responsible for paying the PCN and the keeper is not liable at all even if the name of the driver is never known by Nexus so well done for not appealing. You obviously want to keep it that way to make it very difficult for them to win in Court if it ever goes that far. Although your question is now moot since  the same objective has been achieved by the non compliant PCN [ie no keeper liability] just  about the only way to dispute the timing of the PCN would be if one kept the envelope and there was a discernible date stamp on it that did not match the date on the PCN. There is a new Act coming out [and it cannot come quickly enough ] and one of the things required is that parking companies will have to prove the date of sending out their PCNs. We are not the only ones who sometimes doubt the veracity of their dates particularly as the later it is sent [unlawfully] the shorter the period motorists have to benefit [?] from the reduced payment. I haven't seen it on your posts but do you know how long you are permitted to park for free?
    • I was so annoyed and frustrated about the fact this case was lost it's been floating around my head all night. Dave962, are you sure that's what the Judge said? .... It doesn't make sense. Did the judge in fact dismiss the case on the grounds that the defendant did not make an appeal within 28 days? Effectively telling the PPC about the error entering the registration number and providing proof of payment at that time? To me, that's an important point.  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Invited to a disciplinary hearing


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4972 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

I've been accused of "falsifying records". My workplace have been trying to find ways of improving overall performance, I'm guessing the best way they found was to get rid of me :lol:, but seriously they have brought in a trainer to show us new ways of doing things. One of these ways was to complete the system work on time so as not to incur a failure and capture the actual information on paper, then add notes to the system to show the details are logged on paper.

 

So I did as I was shown, then I was requested to attend an informal hearing where I was informed what I had done could be deemed as fraud and I was to explain my actions. After explaining that I was doing what I was shown, so as to improve performance, I was invited to an investigation interview where I again said I was only doing as I was told.

 

Now is where it has gotten interesting. I've now been invited to a disciplinary hearing to "consider the allegation of falsifying records".

 

I believe I am to be provided with all evidence gained from the investigation at the time of being presented with the invite. The only evidence I was given was the "investigation interview" minutes. Now surely as I had said in that interview I had been shown, they should have atleast spoken to the trainer?, which would suggest to me that the interview was irrelevant as a decision was made prior to the interview as to what the outcome would be, so it would surely be victimisation?

 

Also as they have accused me of "falsifying records", surely this should be deemed as gross misconduct and I should have been suspended whilst the investigation was being done?

 

If, after the hearing, they decide to formally warn me, or even sack me for gross misconduct, what would be the best way to appeal the decision?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Adelburn ,

 

So you were recently trained to do this to improve your performance and then investigated for " falsifying records " ?

 

The letter inviting you to the disciplinary should state the possible outcomes , written warning / dismissal for gross misconduct etc .

The seriousness if the allegations suggest that you should have been suspended as a Tribunal will want to know why you were allowed to continue working if the company suspected you of fraud .

I would also take a witness and ask that the trainer attend as a witness .

 

All you can say at the disciplinary is that you thought you were doing no wrong and at worst you misunderstood what was required of you ......hardly a sackable offence in my opinion .

 

Good Luck

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello there and sorry to hear about your problems. Do you have a copy of the company's disciplinary procedures? They should have them and it would be in your interests to make sure they follow them. If they don't, it will go against them at an ET.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

So you were recently trained to do this to improve your performance and then investigated for " falsifying records " ?

 

Correct. The only problem I can see is if they denied showing me this as they very rarely have us sign training documents. I know it sounds daft, but if the trainer were to lie, am I entitled to request a lie detector test?

 

The letter inviting you to the disciplinary should state the possible outcomes , written warning / dismissal for gross misconduct etc .

The seriousness if the allegations suggest that you should have been suspended as a Tribunal will want to know why you were allowed to continue working if the company suspected you of fraud .

I would also take a witness and ask that the trainer attend as a witness .

 

In the company discpinary procedures it states "If an employee is accused of gross misconduct, the line manager should suspend him/her for the shortest practicable time on full pay to allow an unrestricted investigation".

 

In the "Invite to disciplinary hearing" letter it only states the purpose of the meeting is to "consider the allegation of falsifying records". I kind of jumped to the conclusion they were accusing me of gross misconduct as in the company disciplinary procedures it states examples of gross misconduct are "unauthorised entry to computer records or deliberate falsification of records"

 

Hello there and sorry to hear about your problems. Do you have a copy of the company's disciplinary procedures? They should have them and it would be in your interests to make sure they follow them. If they don't, it will go against them at an ET.

 

HB

 

Cheers for that advice. First time around I just browsed through them, but I've now read them in full I've already noticed a few things they've done wrong.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi again adelburn ,

 

If they are denying that they ever showed you that method of working then its important that you demand that the trainer is at the disciplinary , that is your right (if the trainers going to lie he/she will have to do it to your face and at least you'll know where you stand) .

You also need to clarify if it is actually a disciplinary or they are just investigating the offence at this time .

I don't think that they can do both at the same time .

The disciplinary letter should also have the allegation , evidence they wish to use , the possible outcome and also inform you of the right to have a witness present .( if it doesn't state your entitled to a witness don't take one or demand one)

Don't let them know where they're going wrong , any slip ups they make can be used in any appeal if the worst happens and they dismiss you as they won't want the cost of a Tribunal should you want to take it further .

 

I'm not an expert but have been going down the tribunal route since my dismissal and have picked up quite a bit of information on what employers should and shouldn't be doing .

 

Have you employed by them for 12 months or more ?

Edited by greendollar
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi again adelburn ,

 

If they are denying that they ever showed you that method of working then its important that you demand that the trainer is at the disciplinary , that is your right (if the trainers going to lie he/she will have to do it to your face and at least you'll know where you stand) .

 

They've not denied it yet, I was just wondering what I could do if they do.

 

You also need to clarify if it is actually a disciplinary or they are just investigating the offence at this time .

I don't think that they can do both at the same time .

 

This is the actual disciplinary hearing. The only investigation done was just an interview with myself for me to provide my view of the events.

 

The disciplinary letter should also have the allegation , evidence they wish to use , the possible outcome and also inform you of the right to have a witness present .( if it doesn't state your entitled to a witness don't take one or demand one)

 

They've done all of this. The letter stated I was being accused of "falsifying records", the evidence was just a copy of the investigation minutes. The possible outcomes are detailed in the company procedures they provided me. They also provided me with a right to be accompanied form.

 

Don't let them know where they're going wrong , any slip ups they make can be used in any appeal if the worst happens and they dismiss you as they won't want the cost of a Tribunal should you want to take it further .

 

I'm not an expert but have been going down the tribunal route since my dismissal and have picked up quite a bit of information on what employers should and shouldn't be doing .

 

I really appreciate your help. It's definately helping to get my facts straight.

 

Have you employed by them for 12 months or more ?

 

Almost 5 years now. The new manager however has only been with us for a month, so I'm guessing he's looking to make an example of someone, quite laughable really.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost 5 years now. The new manager however has only been with us for a month, so I'm guessing he's looking to make an example of someone, quite laughable really.

 

Very common I'm afraid with new managers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Morning adelburn ,

 

It seems as if they've covered all their bases then . Like I've said , ensure that the trainer attends as a witness and take your own . Are you the only one that has been trained in this method ? If not ask colleagues to either attend or write statements to back up what your saying .

 

I'd point out that it was their training at fault for this indescretion and no malice was intended .

Dismissal should be the last resort .

I don't want to sound dramatic but this could quite easily cost you your job .

The same happened to me , new manager didn't command the "respect" he thought he deserved (he was crap) and as a result I was singled out and dismissed on a charge that was usually dealt with by way of a quiet word .

 

Again Good Luck

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I've had my hearing and got a first written warning :D

 

Could someone check over my appeal message below and advise if anything should be removed, or worded better please?

 

"Firstly apologies if you are not the correct person I should submit my appeal to, however it is the 6th day since my disciplinary hearing and I have been given no information or outcome of disciplinary hearing letter. I believe this is due to the fact I stated in the hearing I would like to be handed the documents as at that time I was changing my address details with HR. Due to the way the disciplinary has been handled it wouldn’t surprise me if the documents were sent to my old address so I wouldn’t be able to appeal during the 7 working day window.

I am appealing what I believe to be the first written warning I was given on the grounds of victimisation.

I was accused of “Falsifying records”. During the investigation interview I specifically stated I was trained to do the thing I was accused of and not only that, but everyone was doing not only this but further actions that could be deemed as “falsifying records”. My trainer, or any of my colleagues were not investigated during the interview and with the only evidence gained was the investigation meeting with myself. At no stage since then have my colleagues been spoken to about their own falsification of records.

The company disciplinary procedures also state “If an employee is accused of gross misconduct, … the Line Manager should suspend him/her for the shortest practicable time on full pay to allow an unrestricted investigation.” As I was not suspended and taking into account the points above, I can only surmise the outcome of the investigation meeting, and even the disciplinary hearing, was pre-ordained."

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had my hearing and got a first written warning :D

 

Could someone check over my appeal message below and advise if anything should be removed, or worded better please?

 

"Firstly apologies if you are not the correct person I should submit my appeal to, however it is the 6th day since my disciplinary hearing and I have been given no information or outcome of disciplinary hearing letter. I believe this is due to the fact I stated in the hearing I would like to be handed the documents as at that time I was changing my address details with HR. Due to the way the disciplinary has been handled it wouldn’t surprise me if the documents were sent to my old address so I wouldn’t be able to appeal during the 7 working day window.

 

I am appealing what I believe to be the first written warning I was given on the grounds of victimisation.

 

I was accused of “Falsifying records”. During the investigation interview I specifically stated I was trained to do the thing I was accused of and not only that, but everyone was doing not only this but further actions that could be deemed as “falsifying records”. My trainer, or any of my colleagues were not investigated during the interview and with the only evidence gained was the investigation meeting with myself. At no stage since then have my colleagues been spoken to about their own falsification of records.

 

The company disciplinary procedures also state “If an employee is accused of gross misconduct, … the Line Manager should suspend him/her for the shortest practicable time on full pay to allow an unrestricted investigation.” As I was not suspended and taking into account the points above, I can only surmise the outcome of the investigation meeting, and even the disciplinary hearing, was pre-ordained."

 

Hi,

 

Sorry to hear you've got a written warning but it could have been worse .

 

I'm glad to see that your appealing the decision though .

It would be worth adding that they have a duty to treat ALL employees in a fair and consistant manner and that you are confused as to why it is only you that has been singled out for disciplinary action .

I'd be asking why .

 

Good Luck

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be asking why too. Is there anything that singles you out for this treatment that you have not yet posted?

 

Nothing legit that I can think of tbh. I know the new manager has disliked me ever since he started, which I believe to be because he thinks I haven't offered him enough support whilst he settles in.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...