Last night my husband had dealings with a Rossendales bailiff, my husband was given 2 Bailiff Removal forms (magistrates liabilityorder/distress warrant) for council tax, one is in my husbands name (from when he lived on his own) for the amount of £1039.26 and one with both our names for the amount of £1212.24, which makes the total £2251.50. We no longer live in that property even though it is still in our names as we are trying to sell it.

My husband did let the bailiff in but no walking possesion has been done and he hasn't signed anything, the bailiff told my husband that he would be back on friday and that we should pay £1000 and then he would go back to the court and arrange the rest of what we owe on a payment plan.

I have called the council and asked them about the money owed and they said for the one in my husbands name is £713.26 and the one in both our names is £953.74 (both together being £1667.00) but this is being amended to reflect a 6 month exemption, and they will deal with this one themselves but she told me that the on in my husbands name will have to go through rossendales as it is thier debt recovery now and the council will not take it back.

The problem i have got is, do i have to deal with rossendales because the council will not deal with me, do i have to let the bailiff in again on friday, and does anyone aggree that the bailiffs are putting charges of £584.50 (between the 2)on top of what we owe.

I would appriciate any help. Thanks

the bailiff can only charge for two visits .. the first amount is for £24.50 the second is £18.00

so the bailiff have overcharged you a huge amount, when he comes back dont let him in talk to him through the door, ask to see his certificate if he refuses then refuse any comunication with him until he can prove he is certified... if he argues with you then tell him you will call the police as he has no proof to say that he can collect on this debt, only certified bailiffs can collect on debts like C/T. if you want hand him a letter to state what he can charge you and see what he does. tell/write him you are well aware of your rights and that a complaint to the council has been lodge with regards to his overcharging. and you will make a formal complaint in way of a form 4 to the court who certified him. this should make him back off and give you some breathing space.

oh by the way if the debt is in your hubbys name he cannot ask you for it, so if he is not there tell him to come back when he is. a bailiff cannot speak to a third party with regards to a debt.. im sure im right on that one

The problem i have is that i am at work on friday and my husband will be the only one here with our two kids, and i am not saying he can't deal with them but he is not as strong natured as me, he can be a bit soft in certain situations that he feels are threatening, what can i advise that he do when they come.

Also if i make my husband ask for official ID through the letterbox and the bailiff shows him PROPER ID what then.

Could you also tell me what form 4 is, and how i complain to the council about hefty over charges.

I suppose now i am just hoping anyone can give me any advise, i am not good at this sort of thing, and hubby certainly isn't, i really don't want to have to deal with Rossendale's i have read quite a few threads about them, i did agree to pay the charges owed but NOT to bailiff. And the council have refused to deal with the first lot of bailiff charges.

Ok write a letter to the council stating the charges the bailiff has made

also write stating what the charges are that are set out by the governing bodies, the council know full well what they are.

have a read here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/115030-how-complain-court-about.html

this will help at what to do when you do complain.

what ever you or your partner do ' DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR'

he will threaten that he will call the police or get a lock smith.. he cannot do that and he knows that he cannot gain entry by force. you dont even have to talk to him. but if you do then do it via an upstairs window or through the letter box.

have a look around the forum you can take tips of what to write

Thanks Sean,

I have been looking round the various threads for tips for the last couple of hours and have found some things very usefull, the one thing that bothers me now after reading a couple of posts is that even though the bailiff has NO walking posession i do have 2 cars outside, one is my dads car that i am borrowing and the other is my car but we are in the process of trying to sell it (the battery doesn't work, i tried to put it in the garden tonight and it won't start), and am woried he may try to levy these on friday, if we don't give him the time of day.:-?

well unfortunately they will levy on any cars that are on or around your property, even if its not registered to you , but technically they cant levy on property that is not yours, they can even go in a shed and levy on garden furniture. is the car in your name if so then if he is collecting on your partners debt he cannot take anything belonging to you. i have just read which I missed that he has already been in. in that case you may have to talk with him. bugger!!!!!

call the council in the morning and tell them then write to them and the bailiff company out lining what he is charging tell them you will be placing a complaint in the way of a form 4 if he does not ammend his charges

Are you sure we have to talk to him, yes my hubby did let him in but bailiff did not show any ID, no proof of the council tax we owe, did not do any walking possesion, did not ask my hubby to sign anything and just handed over 2 Bailiff Removal forms (magistrates liabilityorder/distress warrant) and said he would be back on friday to collect £1000.

Seen as nothing was writen, and gave him 2 bit's of paper and left, can my hubby use the 'it's my word against your word', and claim he did not come into the house.

I am really worried about the bailiff gaining entry to this house as it is not ours it is rented and the tax owed is not against this property.

I would really like to hold the bailiff off till i can prove that they have put excessive charges of £584.50 on top of the tax owed by sending an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and even a FORM 4 if they are wrong in their charges.

Also does anyone have an SAR to the effect of council tax or know what i should write as i have only found ones regarding banks and credit cards.

Please i really need some expertise in this area as i am unsure now as to whether he is allowed entry to this house or that we HAVE to talk to him.

I feel like we are in a really grey area and need to know the.

My husband did let the bailiff in

I know you know it already, but that was a bad move.

He now has the right of entry.

However, it looks like they may have unlawfully added charges on top.

So this is what I'd do in your position.

a) Email and send a hard copy of a complaint to the bailiffs, the council tax office, and your local councillor.

b) Move everything of value out to places you trust, because no WPA's been made. So AFAIK you can legally do that, and when he comes back he'll know but can do nothing about it. Obviously there is stuff he can't touch, there's a list somewhere around the site, but you can get that info easily.

c) park your vehicles if you have any away from the property.

d) Start attacking, if you know the bailiffs name (don't post it here) you can check if he/she has a current certificate to collect on behalf of the firm he is representing - That's really important.

e) Don't forget there are people on here who deal with this every day for a living, can't say their names but you'll soon work out who it is.

Don't be a victim.

Get organised and start a new folder on your email and on your desktop, and keep records of everything you've written in a hard copy file and every scrap of paper you've ever received, because you may need it to back up your complaints. You must do everything in writing.

Ok I need opinions, this is what i have decided to do from the help that i have been given on CAG (also what chris suggested above),

a) i am going to e-mail rossendales with my SAR (and send hard copy by registerd post). telling them i will not deal with their bailiff at my house only through written correspondence.

b) also send them an e-mail of my completed FORM 4 but not actually send this out yet but tell them if i get no joy from my SAR that i will be enforcing this.

Below is a copy of the SAR i am going to send any comments greatly appriciated if i need to change any wording on this, but i have to send this today before 4pm as that is our last post.

** I write pursuant to Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 and enclose payment of £10 the maximum prescribed under the Act and request you send me the following.

a) An itemised breakdown of all the fees charges orders costs and other monies that make up the total obtained by your bailiff being £584.50.

b) The name and address of the court that certificated your bailiff.

c) All letters, documents, emails, comments, faxes, personal opinions, memos and other related information which would qualify as information defined under the Act.

d) All other information relevant and related to this request and occurrences therein.

e) Whilst I appreciate the Act allows you 40 days from the date of this request to fulfil your obligation, I look forward to receiving the above at your earliest convenience.

This notice gives you an opportunity to examine whether you or your bailiff has charged fees correctly truthfully and compliant to prescribed law regulating bailiff’s fees for this type of debt and amount. If you find an irregularity you now have an opportunity to amend the difference in the next seven days along with a written explanation why I was overcharged. In the absence of an explanation and an irregularity is later discovered, I will automatically file a Form 4 complaint before the bailiff’s certificating court for committing an offence under Sections 1 to 5 of the Fraud Act 2006. This may also involve a criminal investigation by the police and your firm’s director may be liable for receiving or benefiting from a money transfer originating from a crime.

This document is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it to be served on you by the ordinary course of post in the meaning of Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It’s therefore your responsibility and in your own interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation. I regret I am unable to discuss this matter by telephone or in person.

Yours faithfully,**

I am just hoping they take this and don't send the bailiff tommorow as i know my hubby will play ignorant and not let him in. (i have told him to do this as there is no proof of him being in the house, only that he delivered the 2 removal forms).

e) Whilst I appreciate the Act allows you 40 days from the date of this request to fulfil your obligation, I look forward to receiving the above at your earliest convenience.

The problem with the SAR is right there, they have 40 days and will take all of that and more. And meanwhile you've got a bailiff coming round.

The key to this is to get the complaints process rolling as quickly as possible, it shows you know your rights, and it also shows that they can't get away with saying and doing just as they please.

I would tone down your letters a bit - because practically speaking unless you've got smoking gun evidence that could bring down the house of Rossendale, the only person who has anything to fear from prosecution is the bailiff himself - anyone else will be protected by the council - and they'd never put themselves in that position anyway, they're usually too smart.

I would still remove my valuable portable items that are not exempted, because while you might say no bailiff entered the property, and why should you - the fact is he might say that he did.

It's down to proof - and if he has any he may call for police assistance.

Of course then he'd have to convince them that he has proof that he's entered the property previously, and if he has no such proof then he's buggered, and your castle is yours once more - yay!

Either way if I were in your shoes, I would err on the side of caution and move some stuff out - then he can't identify stuff that was there, if he um err was peeking from the outside - if you see what I mean

The key to this is to get the complaints process rolling as quickly as possible, it shows you know your rights, and it also shows that they can't get away with saying and doing just as they please.

The problem is i don't officially know i have got grounds for the complaint this is why i would have liked a breakdown of the charges that they were imposing. So i could "line up my ducks before shooting a loaded gun" or however the saying goes.

I would tone down your letters a bit - because practically speaking unless you've got smoking gun evidence that could bring down the house of Rossendale, the only person who has anything to fear from prosecution is the bailiff himself - anyone else will be protected by the council - and they'd never put themselves in that position anyway, they're usually too smart.

I actually copied the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) from another CAG'er who helped someone else during their C/T problems, i only took i few lines out where it did not go to my situation.

I would still remove my valuable portable items that are not exempted, because while you might say no bailiff entered the property, and why should you - the fact is he might say that he did.

I will be doing this thankyou, i don't want him getting his beady eyes on anything he may want to lift.

It's down to proof - and if he has any he may call for police assistance.

Of course then he'd have to convince them that he has proof that he's entered the property previously, and if he has no such proof then he's buggered, and your castle is yours once more - yay!

I know he has no proof as he had no equipment no pens no paper (other than what he gave us) but to agree with you i will err on the side of caution and tell my hubby to speak to him outside and not let him in anyway.

I am looking for help writing an email to Rossendales please and their email address if possibly...the story...

...Me and my hubby owe 09/10 CT, we no longer live there but it is still owned by us, we have a 50% reduction because of this, that is where it got complicated and ended up with bailiff. They sent us the bill for the full amount in april, we informed them that we are not living in the property so they asked for proof i.e tenancy agreement (we rent), sent this off and heard nothing till we got a council tax summons at end of june (complaint date was 21 May) my hubby rang them and asked why when we had done as they asked, they told him the matter had been passed to the bailiffs now and we had to deal with them we did manage to get the figure we owe as £326.31. So we waited for the bailiffs to get in touch (meanwhile brushing up on CAG info on the bailiff). I got a phone call from a nasty sounding guy from Rossendales today saying i owe £404.81 (he gave us our ref number aswell) that is a £78.50 difference, he said he wanted payment today, i told him i could not pay the whole amount and certainly not to any bailiff, he got more riled and said "fine we will come and take your house stuff for sale", i told him not without a WPO you wont, i also got told i would have more to pay if they came out, i informed him they could come if they wanted too but not to forget to charge the correct fees of 1st and second visit only, to which he replied very nastily and and arrogantly "what did you say i can't hear what you are saying" (meaning to be rude intentionally), so i put the phone down on him. I didn't get chance to ask where the £78.50 fee's are from....

...sorry for long post it was meant to be a small one.

you should of said "oh and by the way are you a certified bailiff, if not dont bother coming, if you are you better bring some proof"

they cant break in or force their way in, but can levy on your car so if I was you I would move it.

heres there info

Rossendales Contact

I would email the council as well with a complaint about the bailiff

Thanks for replying so quick sean...

...

you should of said "oh and by the way are you a certified bailiff

but can levy on your car so if I was you I would move it

I just don't know what to say to them, and am crapping myself as the £78.50 isn't such a great amount (no where near what i have read they charge some people on here), i really don't know where it comes from as i said earlier we have had nobody at the door, no letters either.

I have been having a look about to see if you actually owe any council tax on your property at all, here is a link that will explain how much you should/shouldnt of paid. Its worth a read to find out if you are fully exempt or not

Council tax

I would get a letter or email sent off to your council and complain to them what has happened, if you get no joy from them then get the local council ombudsman involved.

The bailiffs have definately overcharged you so dont forget to mention that also.

Hi just a quick question, we had our c/t bill taken back to the council from the bailiffs and got sent a letter stating we still owed £276.31 which we don't dispute, but the council didn't give us chance to respond to paying it before they wrote to my hubby's place of work and said they needed to pay it through his wages (fortunately or unfortunately depends on how you look at it), he is employed by my parents, they have said they have 14 to notify him of the payment through wages and they have to pay it or they are liable to a fine.

My question is can i ring the council and offer to make two payments over the phone or through their web or does the c/t now have to be paid through his wages, can they refuse the payments by any other method now they have asked for it through his place of work.

Councils have a lot of discretion on how they can and can't accept payments. They always seem to go for the one that most hurts the taxpayer.

Yes you can ask them and it would be reasonable for them to accept the balance in 2 payments, but the councils can't be bothered, so don't expect any assistance from them. You could be lucky though so try it.

You could, of course, just do it. Pay the first instalment on line and then the second next month. You can show the receipt to your parents (employer) and he can stop the deductions.

the deductions haven't started yet they only got the letter today.

so if i pay this online, say one tonight and one next wednesday, the council cannot take anything from my hubby's wage, and my parents are not liable for anything.

and am i right in thinking the automated service online never refuses payment. or can they shut that option off to certain accounts.

That's correct and they can't refuse a legitimate offer of payment.

Unsure if this is the correct place for this thread, the forum has changed slightly since i had help the last time.

I received this this morning, i will put explanations in different colour next to their writing :-

Dear Madam

Re: Former Tenant Arrears at *your previous address*.

Amount Outstanding - £736.62 - my rent lasted from sept 02 to feb 04

I refer to the Judgment Order obtained against you in *your town* County Court on the 5th March 2007, whereby installments of £50.00 per month were ordered. - i remember talking to the council about this but i was not working and in receipt of income support at the time of renting, we had a few conversations about the middle of 04 but nothing since from them.

To date the sum of £162.25 has been received leaving an outstanding balance of £736.62. - Don't remember paying anything off ever.

Please bring your account up to date within the course of the next 10 days from the date of this letter and maintain regular payments or contact me with your reasonable proposals for settlement. Failure to contact me within the time specified will result in a Warrent of Execution being requested against you without any other notice or warning whatsoever.

Yours faithfully

S ******

This has taken me by surprise, as it's been 6yrs and 6months since i left that address, i left forwarding address, i do not remember ever getting an order to pay £50 per month, and certainly not paying anything off this. And according to this letter if they placed the order in march 07, it's taken them 3yrs to chase that.

Is there any way i can find this info out from the council.

Did i also mention that i have just started tribunal proceedings with the same council for wages arrears, as i worked for them for 4 years from 2005.

I have started writing the council a letter for some info regarding the account they hold, will this be good enough.

Dear Ms. ****

I am writing in response to your letter dated 06th August 2010 regarding Tenant Arrears for *my past address*.

Before this outstanding amount of £736.62 is accepted by myself, I would like all the information you hold on me with regards to this property.

I look forward to your reply in this matter.