Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


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  1. #21
    Basic Account Holder tuvalu Novitiate



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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Hi everyone,

    Thank you for the explanations regarding the rules. All this information is so useful. Mick thank you for your last post. The probelm I have is that the dpa and subject access applies to people that are alive, my understanding is thats its up to the discretion of organisations. Does anyone have any suggestions for me on this.
    My husband had applied for an appeal and I have sent the letter to continue with this so I also need as much advice as possible regarding this.
    But a really big thankyou to evryone who has advised or just given their support. i am so grateful.


  2. #22
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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Hi tuvalu.

    You are correct about the disclosure of data of deceased persons not being available to third parties using the DPA, and that it is up to the discretion of the organisation - if you are able to proceed with the appeal, you will receive copies of all information relating to the decision of your late husband's ESA claim prior to the tribunal, this is a normal part of the appeals procedure. However it will not contain screen dumps, or other information which does not directly relate to the decision, nor an auditory trail.

    A representative of a deceased person may, however, request the deceased's health records under the Access to Health Records Act 1990. This may or may not help you but it is the only thing I can find, short of asking for a court order for the information. You may be able to persuade ATOS to release information under this Act in relation to your husband's medical assessment. (You would get the medical report in any case though with the appeal papers if you succeed in being appointed to act - more on that below). The Act defines a health record as a record which—

    a) consists of information relating to the physical or mental health of an individual who can be identified from that information, or from that and other information in the possession of the holder of the record; and

    (b) has been made by or on behalf of a health professional in connection with the care of that individual

    Now, in relation to (b) ATOS may successfully argue that the record is not in connection with care of the deceased because it in fact relates to an assessment for the purposes of determining benefit entitlement.

    You can also request information under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, however this can only be used to gain information about policies, procedures, guides, law, statistics, facts etc that a public body (DWP in this case) utilises in the process; it cannot be used to gain information which is or was personal dataicon of a data subject.

    Insofar as the appeal is concerned, the Secretary of State can appoint a person to act for a deceased appellant in order for an appeal to continue. This is outlined in regulation 34 of the Decision and Appeal Regulations 1999. On receipt of your letter, they should consider whether you are an appropriate person to appoint for the continuance. (i.e; whether there was an appointee at the date of death, whether anyone else has requested to be appointed for continuance etc).

    The code of appeals procedure is here

    My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

    Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.
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  3. #23
    Basic Account Holder Legislation Hound Novitiate



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    Default Re: Help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Dear Tuvalu,

    Hopefully you are still checking into this site, and also to anyone else who has lost a loved one that may be reasonably argued stems from 'alleged' negligence by Atos/DWP.

    I write as a former police officer, but with the caveat of being a little rusty on the legislation.

    Might I respectfully suggest you try an alternate method rather than Atos/DWP have you jumping through their hoops?

    Just contact the Health & Safety Executive (HSE) and formally request they launch an investigation into Atos Ltd (or whatever they now call themselves) and Iain Duncan Smith as the 'directing mind' of the DWP. Ask the HSE to launch an investigation into the whole matter in terms of:-

    - S37 of the Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 - Conviction for Manslaughter, can be punishable by imprisonment of the 'directing mind' if found guilty.

    - Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Act 2007 - For death where culpability of an organisation is proven.

    The main point is that you should NOT be doing the legwork. You have suffered enough. The HSE have significant powers of investigation, seizure and prosecution that you do not. They have a track record of convicting people and organisations of manslaughter.

    On a slightly seperate matter I used the method of having a regulator prosecute a government organisation (having learnt how hard it is as a lone citizen to do this). I was astounded when the matter went all the way up to the EU. Then shocked when the government organisation was CLOSED DOWN.

    Tuvalu, you can help many others who are currently going through Hell with this new Reich style elimination of the disabled, and not least honour the memory of your late partner by helping those who are so disabled they cannot help themselves against these ruthless organisations.

    Best regards,

    banana.


  4. #24
    Gold Account Holder patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative



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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    very well put and a very substantial point of law , use this or get a solicitor to act for you ,
    lets see smiddy get out of this one

    [URL="http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html"][COLOR=#003399]http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html[/COLOR][/URL]




    [COLOR=#ff0000]Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional[/COLOR]
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  5. #25
    Gold Account Holder RaeUK Authoritative RaeUK Authoritative RaeUK Authoritative RaeUK Authoritative RaeUK Authoritative RaeUK Authoritative RaeUK Authoritative RaeUK Authoritative RaeUK Authoritative RaeUK Authoritative RaeUK Authoritative RaeUK's Avatar



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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Leagle Beagle, unfortunately, tuvalu's last activity was on 11th July 2010. I can't see any contact details on her profile. You could try sending her a PM as this might generate an email notification. Assuming her email hasn't changed. If you put something catchy in the PM title that might help as it should show up in the notification ...


  6. #26
    Basic Account Holder Legislation Hound Novitiate



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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Hi PatrickQ1 and Kelcou,

    Many thanks for the prompt response.

    I shall try and PM contact Tuvalu,

    Very best regards,

    banana


  7. #27
    Basic Account Holder Legislation Hound Novitiate



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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Hi Again PatrickQ1 and Kelcou,

    Apologies at being a nuisance, but the CAGicon PM system won't let me send a message to Tuvalu. Are you able to do the honours and email her to advise that there is a post on CAGicon with information that might help get the result she needs for the passing of her partner, and in a way that doesn't require her to place her and her family in financial harms way? In other words, the Health & Safety Executive and if necessary the police and CPS will, or at least should investigate.

    Kind regards,

    banana


  8. #28
    Gold Account Holder patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative



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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    yes will send message LH because you are new to the forum its not allowed (i think) to PM but will send her private message see if any response comess through
    patrickq1

    [URL="http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html"][COLOR=#003399]http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html[/COLOR][/URL]




    [COLOR=#ff0000]Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional[/COLOR]
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  9. #29
    Gold Account Holder patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative



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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    message sent

    [URL="http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html"][COLOR=#003399]http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html[/COLOR][/URL]




    [COLOR=#ff0000]Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional[/COLOR]
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  10. #30
    Basic Account Holder Legislation Hound Novitiate



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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Thanks PatrickQ1,

    Much appreciated.

    Even if Tuvalu doesn't respond, there appear to be at least two other deaths by suicide related to the new Atos/DWP 'Medical Assessment' failings that require formal and thorough investigation. Methinks this might be a serious issue for those at Atos/DWP who refuse to 'improve' their defective 'Medical Assessment' system that on the evidence, has actual deaths in close proximity to the Atos/DWP 'Medical Assessment' et al. I have come across alleged DWP stonewalling that may very presage and end up a more serious matter than the MP Expenses Scandal. At least, as far as I know, no one lost their lives as a result of the MP Expenses Scandal. Even then the jails have MPs and Lords imprisoned.

    For anyone curious, the fines and custodial sentences under the new Homicide Act, and breaches of the Health & Safety legislation are very very serious.

    For civil servants and MPs, the Crown Immunity on material sections of the legislation have been removed.

    Watch this space.

    Very best regards to CAGicon,

    banana.

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  11. #31
    Gold Account Holder patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative patrickq1 Highly informative



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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    I personally do not think it will bother a single MP with regards to the suicides ,MR DS should be held accountable , but they never are they will sqirm out of it, as for expenses any single one of them who has abused the system ought to be held to account ,including MR osbourne who incedently flipped his home and also moved his money 10 mil plus to Guernsey seems he gets away with it but not others ,i do hope eventually someone does begin an action against Atosh and DWP but that is just wishful thinking
    patrickq1

    [URL="http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html"][COLOR=#003399]http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html[/COLOR][/URL]




    [COLOR=#ff0000]Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional[/COLOR]
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  12. #32
    Basic Account Holder Legislation Hound Novitiate



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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Hi PatrickQ1,

    I take your point and share your cynicism about MPs not being held to account. However, I draw a breath of fresh air from what Heather Brooke started with an almost invisible Freedom of Information request in 2005 that developed into a political maelstrom. Long story short, and it is worth reminding ourselves as we have a severe bout of cynicism, this led to one of the biggest upheavals at Westminster for centuries.....

    Ex MP David Chaytor convicted and sentenced to 18 months imprisonment.

    Ex MP Eric Illsley convicted and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment.

    Ex MP Jim Devine convicted and sentenced to 16 months imprisonment.

    Ex MP Elliot Morely convicted and sentenced to 16 months imprisonment.

    Lord Taylor of Warwick convicted and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment.

    Lord Hanningfield convicted of false accounting on 26th May 2011 and awaiting sentence.


    On top of many of the above liars and crooks being jailed, we have the political P45s....

    Baron Bhatia has been suspended from the House of Lords for eight months and told to repay £27,446.

    Baron Paul has been suspended from the House of Lords for four months and told to repay £41,982

    Baroness Uddin faces a police investigation. She has been suspended from the House of Lords until the end of 2012 and ordered to repay £125,349.

    Ex MP Jacqui Smith stood down as Home Secretary during her partners period of taxpayer funded porn purchase. She was voted out of the House of commons in 2010

    Ex Chief Secretary to the Treasury, David Laws recently resigned from the new government following a still live £40,000 expense problem.

    Ex MP Geoff Hoon was humiliated in a television documentary and didn't even stand as an MP in 2010

    Ex MP and Minister of Employment and WELFARE REFORM Tony McNulty was forced to apologise to the House of Commons and repay £13,837 in dodgy expenses. He was booted out of the House of Commons in 2010.

    Ex MP and Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury Kitty Usher resigned her position after just 8 days, following publication of her efforts to avoid Capital Gains Tax.

    The list of political casualties from the Expenses Scandal and related FOIicon issues that have come to light goes on, and on, and on.

    Current MINORITY Government Secretary of State Iain Duncan Smith was subject to a dodgy CV expose by investigative reporter Michael Crick. Let us not forget, Duncan Smith was sackedicon by his previous employer in a humiliating vote of no confidence in him as Conservative Party Leader. His coat is on the proverbial shugglie peg.

    My Point? Simple. If MPs do not listen to the warnings of unfairness and injustice, they will face tougher sanctions.

    In the case of this thread, and the deaths linked to Atos/DWP, there is the distinct probability of prosecution of MPs and Civil Servants with the possibility of jail sentences being handed down to DWP Decision Makers, right up to Iain Duncan Smith being hauled before the courts WITHOUT CROWN IMMUNITY if they do not get their act, and the conduct of Atos employees and DWP officials in line with the new Homicide Act, the HSE Legislation and the Human Rights Act.

    This matter is what might be described as a 'slow burner'.

    It took Heather Brooke 4 years from her first FOIicon request. But the result shook the Mother of All Parliaments to its foundation. That is an undeniable FACT.

    Tragically, the lessons of fairness, right, justice, and elected representatives/civil servants acting within the law themselves still haven't been learnt.

    The matter of Atos/DWP and deaths by 'Medical Assessment' appear on this thread in a very obscure corner.

    But mark my words, the matter will travel up the political agenda as time goes by.

    Then again, what do I know? I am only a disabled former police officer.

    Very best regards,

    banana.

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  13. #33
    Royalties Account Holder babybear39 Authoritative babybear39 Authoritative babybear39 Authoritative babybear39 Authoritative babybear39 Authoritative babybear39 Authoritative babybear39 Authoritative babybear39 Authoritative babybear39 Authoritative babybear39 Authoritative babybear39 Authoritative babybear39's Avatar



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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    This is also a bit of a slow burner but we're getting there:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/CAAADWP/

    "To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

    Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

    If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private

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  14. #34
    Basic Account Holder jacktheskipper Novitiate jacktheskipper's Avatar



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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Quote Originally Posted by Legislation Hound View Post
    Hi PatrickQ1,

    I take your point and share your cynicism about MPs not being held to account. However, I draw a breath of fresh air from what Heather Brooke started with an almost invisible Freedom of Information request in 2005 that developed into a political maelstrom. Long story short, and it is worth reminding ourselves as we have a severe bout of cynicism, this led to one of the biggest upheavals at Westminster for centuries.....

    Ex MP David Chaytor convicted and sentenced to 18 months imprisonment.

    Ex MP Eric Illsley convicted and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment.

    Ex MP Jim Devine convicted and sentenced to 16 months imprisonment.

    Ex MP Elliot Morely convicted and sentenced to 16 months imprisonment.

    Lord Taylor of Warwick convicted and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment.

    Lord Hanningfield convicted of false accounting on 26th May 2011 and awaiting sentence.


    On top of many of the above liars and crooks being jailed, we have the political P45s....

    Baron Bhatia has been suspended from the House of Lords for eight months and told to repay £27,446.

    Baron Paul has been suspended from the House of Lords for four months and told to repay £41,982

    Baroness Uddin faces a police investigation. She has been suspended from the House of Lords until the end of 2012 and ordered to repay £125,349.

    Ex MP Jacqui Smith stood down as Home Secretary during her partners period of taxpayer funded porn purchase. She was voted out of the House of commons in 2010

    Ex Chief Secretary to the Treasury, David Laws recently resigned from the new government following a still live £40,000 expense problem.

    Ex MP Geoff Hoon was humiliated in a television documentary and didn't even stand as an MP in 2010

    Ex MP and Minister of Employment and WELFARE REFORM Tony McNulty was forced to apologise to the House of Commons and repay £13,837 in dodgy expenses. He was booted out of the House of Commons in 2010.

    Ex MP and Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury Kitty Usher resigned her position after just 8 days, following publication of her efforts to avoid Capital Gains Tax.

    The list of political casualties from the Expenses Scandal and related FOIicon issues that have come to light goes on, and on, and on.

    Current MINORITY Government Secretary of State Iain Duncan Smith was subject to a dodgy CV expose by investigative reporter Michael Crick. Let us not forget, Duncan Smith was sackedicon by his previous employer in a humiliating vote of no confidence in him as Conservative Party Leader. His coat is on the proverbial shugglie peg.

    My Point? Simple. If MPs do not listen to the warnings of unfairness and injustice, they will face tougher sanctions.

    In the case of this thread, and the deaths linked to Atos/DWP, there is the distinct probability of prosecution of MPs and Civil Servants with the possibility of jail sentences being handed down to DWP Decision Makers, right up to Iain Duncan Smith being hauled before the courts WITHOUT CROWN IMMUNITY if they do not get their act, and the conduct of Atos employees and DWP officials in line with the new Homicide Act, the HSE Legislation and the Human Rights Act.

    This matter is what might be described as a 'slow burner'.

    It took Heather Brooke 4 years from her first FOIicon request. But the result shook the Mother of All Parliaments to its foundation. That is an undeniable FACT.

    Tragically, the lessons of fairness, right, justice, and elected representatives/civil servants acting within the law themselves still haven't been learnt.

    The matter of Atos/DWP and deaths by 'Medical Assessment' appear on this thread in a very obscure corner.

    But mark my words, the matter will travel up the political agenda as time goes by.

    Then again, what do I know? I am only a disabled former police officer.

    Very best regards,

    banana.

    All these MPs that spent time in "prison" if you can call it that spent in fact merely 1/4 of the term handed down by the judges.
    Do look that fact up.
    Furthermore every last one of them served their time in a very soft open prison. And I have a relative that works at Leyhill open prison and it's a standing joke that it's more luxurious than more pay for fitness/health boot camps that exist throughout the country. Open prisons are really the wealthy and powerful version of a free health boot camp similar to the tv programme for naughty teenagers shown on mainstream tv.
    Lord Archer spent much of his time in prison writing a book and spending weekend time at the opera and fine restaurants with the prison governor.

    Why hasn't his title been removed and surely a fine of £1,000,000 and a prison spell in somewhere like Strangeways as a penalty?

    To honest most of these toff dicks need a very hefty fine related where possible to their personal wealth. It is a waste of time putting them in prison.

    It's like former MP Margaret Moran (never prosecuted for major fraud) and indeed recently the tory MP Patrick Mercer ( brushed under the carpet and very likely never to be prosecuted). These of course are only the ones that have been caught numerous other MPs including Cameron and Clegg, Ed Balls and his wife were doing very dodgy deals "within the rules" - (their own rules) making tens of thousand by flipping properties and yet the likes of Tory boys like Cameron and his fag Osbourne with allegedly offshore accounts in the channel islands yet criticizing companies like Google for working "within the rules" too.

    Quite honestly you've got more chance of the IPCC finding the Police guilty of malpractice and as you are well aware that hasn't happened in the history of the Police. For the same reasons why these MPs never get properly punished.

    This lady is wasting her time and money bothering to take the DWP and Atos to court as true as IPCC is as about as independent to the Police service as my head is to my body, and ultimately the courts will always rule a nine bob note is legal tender if the government tell them to do so.


  15. #35
    Basic Account Holder Invalidation Novitiate



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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Anyone considering a legal poke at Atos or the DWP should also consider Fraud. Make a formal complaint to the police.

    Taking a poke at the world

    Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

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