Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder tuvalu Novitiate

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    Default help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Can anyone out there suggest a good solicitor so I can persue a criminal or civil prosecution against both Atos Healthcare and DWP.

    My late husband died just before Christmas, although we were not together we were still legally married and still cared for each others welfare. I was in Australia when he died and returned immediately to sort this out. I have been through his paper work and firmly believe the DWP were negligent, Cruel, Inept and he also suffered discrimination.
    I have a small occupational pension and am not on benefits myself, so they cannot threaten me with fear.
    My late husband was only on ESA for a few months, and had not claimed any benefit for over 30 years.
    i would like a criminal case if possible, Civil if I have to.
    I cant find any records of court cases on the web.
    I would be really grateful for all suggestions

    Thank you in advance


  2. #2
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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Welcome to the site.

    Any action would need preparedness and supporting evidence.
    Do you think that you have everything you would need ?

    I think that you need to give more detailed info as regards your belief that there is a cause of action.

    Of course leaving out any named individuals/areas etc.

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  3. #3
    Basic Account Holder tuvalu Novitiate

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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Thank you martin,

    My late husband was 3 months from being eligable for pension credit.
    He had depression for which he was certificated by his GP and a heart condition.
    He started claiming ESA in Feb 09.
    During that period he was assessed by Atos who scored him at 0 points
    He appealed and this was reviewed and upheld. He did not do the next appeal he died before then. i have the paerwork and reasons for decisions.
    He lived in the marital home, I was paying mortgageicon, insurances and utility bills by direct debiticon. the DWP continually did not pay him his ESA which impacted on council rates (which i was not paying)
    Worst of all he was hounded by DWP to go back to work, he had not worked for over 30 years as we had swapped roles, he therefore took the traditional now outdated womens role and stayed at home. This agreement worked quite well for us. We did not claim benefits as I paid for everything.
    With just 3 months left, I kept expaining to him everything would be ok as soon as he was on pension credit as he would have to be treated the same as a women born on the same day. I tried as best I could from australia, but he never told me how bad things really were
    DWP wrote to GP told him to stop issuing medical certificates my question is WHY! He would only need 1 more before reaching 60.
    I believe a stay at home woman of the same age would have been treated differently, realising the short time involved, and the pension service itself says it treats men and women the same.
    Anyway despite having needing treatment for a earlier attemp in 2009 to kill himself, he was so worried and put through so much trouble that he did kill himself in early December. He was not a paperwork person as told to DWP, I dont think he stood a chance of understanding the rules
    i believe they did not look at the whole picture, continually did not pay him, hounded him to start work ignored medical evidence, told him they were not paying him anymore, suspended his benefit, did not ask Atos for him to have an assessment for mental illness, there is more still.
    I belive DWP and Atos are guilty of corporate manslaughter.

    Thank you, hope for some ideas, I have only just emerged from the duvet I have laid under for six months, and i have not stopped crying yet.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Ok thank you.Hang on in there and dont think of giving up.
    Forgive me but I am going offline as tired.
    But I am very sure you will be taken care of here.

    Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.
    Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.






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  5. #5
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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Here are some links which may enlighten you and help to explain (but not mitigate) the "We don't give A'TOSs"® absurdity.

    Please read this article c/o Brighton Benefits Campaign and much will be made clearer. It's probably the best I've ever seen.
    Employment and Support Allowance: a new harsher test Brighton Benefits Campaign

    A good many other terminally ill people are being appallingly let down by the system and it can be difficult to know who to pin down the blame on, the buck never seems to stop being passed between the DWP and ATOSh their contractor. One person who was seriously let down under ESA has made a v.good web-site with loads of first class information, links and references which will help you with the difficult decision whether to seek redress through the legal system and how to get evidence:
    DWP ESA Medical Examinations

    You'll find plenty of sites on the web affirming that ATOS is a heartless greedy business, e.g. they falsify their medical reports etc. to deny people their rightful dues. Try this Google of "DWP and Atos medical" but avoid the ATOS and DWP sites because they are just spouting propaganda.

    Good luck and kindest regards,
    Paul.

    I'm not a qualified welfare rights adviser, but I'm planning on becoming one. I'm no substitute for more competent advice from trained CAB and welfare rights workers - see this post by Joa, great advice and links!
    I've been running a Crisis Loan campaign and help since Jan 2007 . See my annotations c/o "theyworkforyou". I'm also currently interested by the recent DWP Medical Services reform and the effect this is having on valid claims, seriously - someone needs to be keeping a suicide count.
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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Thanks Tuvalu for providing full details, they appeared while I was writing my post above this one.
    What has happened to your husband is b'**dy disgusting and you ought to complain because this is appears to be a terrible case of "Tort of Negligence". I foresaw (when ESA was still in the proposals stage) just this sort of thing happening, a profit motivated company shouldn't be allowed anywhere near social welfare administration.
    I'm just going to make a cuppa and roll a fag but I'll be back soon with some better researched guidance (when I find it).
    Regards, Paul.

    P.S.
    DWP wrote to GP told him to stop issuing medical certificates my question is WHY!
    Was it the DWP or might it have been ATOS who sent the letter, I've seen quite a lot of this just lately and I thought that it was ATOS who were doing this. In any case they have no right to tell G.P.s what to do, and, many simply ignore the 'no more med certs' letters. Further down the letter it should state that this doesn't apply if the claimant is appealing the ESA decision.

    I'm not a qualified welfare rights adviser, but I'm planning on becoming one. I'm no substitute for more competent advice from trained CAB and welfare rights workers - see this post by Joa, great advice and links!
    I've been running a Crisis Loan campaign and help since Jan 2007 . See my annotations c/o "theyworkforyou". I'm also currently interested by the recent DWP Medical Services reform and the effect this is having on valid claims, seriously - someone needs to be keeping a suicide count.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Some people are renaming the ATOS medical "the Lourdes Cure". LOL
    It's almost impossible not to be found "fit for work".

    I'm not a qualified welfare rights adviser, but I'm planning on becoming one. I'm no substitute for more competent advice from trained CAB and welfare rights workers - see this post by Joa, great advice and links!
    I've been running a Crisis Loan campaign and help since Jan 2007 . See my annotations c/o "theyworkforyou". I'm also currently interested by the recent DWP Medical Services reform and the effect this is having on valid claims, seriously - someone needs to be keeping a suicide count.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Thankyou Tuvalu for posting.
    Please please keep us updated with your fight. We may only be able to offer moral support and some advice here and there but we are all too aware that the current system in the UK can lead to suicide. Your post helps endorse that.
    Off the top of my head, I wouldn't say the male / female pension rights are equitable. However, at age 60 your husband would be eligible for pension credits which - bizarrely - amount to the same thing.
    So much love to you hunni for pursuing this. Please beleive me, it's not just your husband you are helping.
    I am sure I speak for all on CAGicon, if we can help - no matter how small that help may be - we will gladly do so.
    Best wishes
    Rae

    Please feel free to join my facebook page and tell your story...

    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...04420389593395

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  9. #9
    Basic Account Holder tuvalu Novitiate

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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Thankyou thankyou for all your replies. Please send me as much as possible. 2 things, I never saw the letter to GP, it was on the GPs system but my son did. that is the one letter we are missing, but DWP themselves in their letter telling my husband his benefit was suspended said 'we have written to your GP informing him not to issue any more medical certificates' havent got exact words to hand, but it was more or less this
    Also if my husand and i had divorced then he would have been entitled to a bigger slice of marital home because i have a pension. Because of that i believe he never got what he was entitled to and i am very happy to pay anything to get justice fo him. I am very angry of this cruel system. So in my mind there is no debate, I want to make them squirm like they made him
    Once again thanks for all your support and please keep it coming
    XX


  10. #10
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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Quote Originally Posted by tuvalu View Post
    Thank you martin,

    He started claiming ESA in Feb 09.
    During that period he was assessed by Atos who scored him at 0 points
    He appealed and this was reviewed and upheld. He did not do the next appeal he died before then. i have the paerwork and reasons for decisions.
    Hi tuvalu. I am very sorry to hear about your husband and the circumstances of his passing. I can't imagine how devastated you are.

    Unfortunately in accordance with the site rules CAGicon cannot recommend solicitors as they are a commercial business. However we may be able to advise how ESA works, and provide links to the law and the guides which incorporate ESA, and answer some of your questions which will hopefully go some way to helping you. In order to clarify some things for you, I need to ask you a few questions in regard to the situation, and the things you have told us about.

    When he originally appealed the decision did he ask for an appeal specifically, or did he ask for a review or reconsideration? This is very important because there may be scope for a continuance of appeal even though your husband has died. Appeals which are in process can be continued by an executor after death.


    Quote Originally Posted by tuvalu View Post
    DWP wrote to GP told him to stop issuing medical certificates my question is WHY!
    When ESA is decided upon, it is normal procedure for DWP to issue a letter to the claimant's GP advising of the decision and that there is no need for any more sick notes to be issued unless there is a change in the patient's condition, or if the patient is appealing. This is the case whether the decision is to the claimant's favour or not; if no more sick notes are required because of a decision on benefit, DWP will write to the GP to advise of this. This was also the case with IB. Sick notes are specifically for Social Secuity purposes.

    Do I have to provide a further medical statement to a patient who has been advised by Jobcentre Plus that they are not entitled to Incapacity Benefit or Employment and Support Allowance?

    If your patient appeals against the decision you may issue further medical statements until the appeal is held if you feel that it is medically appropriate. Medical evidence is required to support benefit claims at all times unless the Work Capability Assessment threshold is met. This requirement does not change while a patient is appealing. If you consider that your patient is fit for work and you do not issue a Med 3, Jobcentre Plus will advise your patient of the alternative options open to them. This may include claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance until the appeal outcome, if the specific qualifying conditions are met.
    If the appeal is unsuccessful, you should only issue further statements if their condition worsens significantly or they have a new medical condition.


    Quote Originally Posted by tuvalu View Post
    the DWP continually did not pay him his ESA which impacted on council rates (which i was not paying)
    Did he continue to send in sick certificates following the ESA disallowance?


    Quote Originally Posted by tuvalu View Post
    Worst of all he was hounded by DWP to go back to work
    In what way? Did he sign on to Jobseeker's Allowance?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuvalu View Post
    continually did not pay him
    Quote Originally Posted by tuvalu View Post
    told him they were not paying him anymore, suspended his benefit,
    What reasons were given for not paying him/suspending his benefit? When did they do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuvalu View Post
    did not ask Atos for him to have an assessment for mental illness
    There is not a seperate assessment for mental illness in relation to an ESA claim. The assessment is the same for every person who claims ESA. I have attached the points scoring system to this message so you can have a look at it and work out what he should have perhaps scored realistically. honeybee has a sticky at the top of the benefits forum where she has placed a templateicon she and her husband made to challenge the point scoring in her claim to what it should have been.

    There are also some links attached in relation to ESA and how to look up the legislation which you can read in your own time.

    DMG volume 8

    DMG Volume 9


    Welfare Reform Act

    ESA regulations

    The Employment and Support Allowance (Transitional Provisions) Regulations 2008

    The Employment and Support Allowance (Consequential Provisions) Regulations 2008

    The Employment and Support Allowance (Consequential Provisions) (No.2) Regulations 2008

    The Employment and Support Allowance (Consequential Provisions) (No. 3) Regulations 2008


    The Employment and Support Allowance (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2008

    Benefits and the law sticky

    honeybee's template sticky

    DWP Policy ESA

    My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Sorry - here is the attachement for the LCW points test.

    Attached Files
    My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

    Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Very informative Erika

    Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.
    Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.






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  13. #13
    Basic Account Holder tuvalu Novitiate

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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Thankyou so much everyone, i have a lot of research to do, this forum is very very good,


  14. #14
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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Hi
    This is my first post here, Ive been reading the forums for a while as Im going through my own nightmare with ATOS and the DWP, Im trying to gather the strength for a long uphill battle but had to join to comment on this.
    Tuvalu Im so sorry about your husband it must be horrendous. Dont let them get away with this, ATOS are not above the law. Have you copies of the examiners reports? If you havent, ring the DWP to get them and be prepared for some blatant lies and rubbish when you read them. Do you know if your husband took anyone to the assessment or did he go alone?
    I am also looking to take ATOS to court, my story is quite long and I will open a new threadicon, just wanted to say hello and Tuvalu any help or support I can give you or anyone else I will.

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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Hello Tuvalu and Twinkletoes, nice to meet you both.

    Tuvalu, your story is shocking and I hope you can see justice done. I can't help with anything specific at this stage, but you have my support.

    Did you get an answer to your lawyer question? I didn't see one. You might find a no-win-no-fee lawyer to handle the case if they believe they can win it, otherwise the UK has enough lawyers to choose from . Try to find someone who specialises in this area if you can.

    My best and big hugs to both of you. HB x

    PS twinkletoes, I look forward to seeing your thread.

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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee13 View Post
    Hello Tuvalu and Twinkletoes, nice to meet you both.

    Tuvalu, your story is shocking and I hope you can see justice done. I can't help with anything specific at this stage, but you have my support.

    Did you get an answer to your lawyer question? I didn't see one. You might find a no-win-no-fee lawyer to handle the case if they believe they can win it, otherwise the UK has enough lawyers to choose from . Try to find someone who specialises in this area if you can.

    My best and big hugs to both of you. HB x

    PS twinkletoes, I look forward to seeing your thread.
    Hi HB,

    I posted a link in this thread but the CAGBot removed it (site rules: commercial web-sites) which is a pity because the name of that solicitor is enough to strike fear in the hearts of any government employed benefits lawyer because he is the most pre-eminent in the land, he also has a good 'moral compass' and reputation. I've sent the link by pm to tuvalu but I don't know if that was also blocked for the same reason.

    By default here's a link that can be used to find a local free Law Centre:
    About Law Centres: Find your local Law Centre

    Regards, Paul.

    I'm not a qualified welfare rights adviser, but I'm planning on becoming one. I'm no substitute for more competent advice from trained CAB and welfare rights workers - see this post by Joa, great advice and links!
    I've been running a Crisis Loan campaign and help since Jan 2007 . See my annotations c/o "theyworkforyou". I'm also currently interested by the recent DWP Medical Services reform and the effect this is having on valid claims, seriously - someone needs to be keeping a suicide count.
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    This thread has been "cagbotted" several times, all for the same reason. I appreciate the situation for the OP is a desperate one, as I am sure everyone does.

    However the site rules are quite clear in regard to commercial links; the rules also extend to private messaging.

    We cannot disregard the site rules for one thread, no matter how delicate yet enforce the rule in every other thread. To do so would promote a completely unfair balance across the boards.

    This lady needs help. As I said in post 10 we can't exchange commercial links but there are other ways we may be able to assist - we can offer clarification on ESA and those who have been directly affected by the system can offer much needed moral support to her. By clarification of the legislation of ESA she may be able to see if she has a case to take forward; yes what has happened is shocking however, as seasoned caggers will know, no matter how unjust a situation appears, a case is only as strong as the law allows it to be. I would hate to see this lady, who is still in the depths of bereavementicon, contact a solicitor, pay thousands in fees only to be told she doesn't stand a chance particularly as she is seeking a private criminal prosecution - this is a very costly business and these cases are very rare.

    Loneranger has provided a link to free law centres, which is absolutely fine and will stay where it is. (Great link Paul!)

    If anyone wishes to find a solicitor, specialised or otherwise, there are search engines that they can use to do so; there are also reviews available for some, so that a person can have a good look at client's experiences, but the links cannot be posted here, I'm afraid.

    My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

    Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    are quite clear in regard to commercial links; the rules also extend to private messaging
    yes i got a removal and edit in my private e mails,for this reason i will be leaving shortly ...and going to the orangeicon site ..
    patrickq1
    sorry to here of your case Tuvalu

    [URL="http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html"][COLOR=#003399]http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html[/COLOR][/URL]




    [COLOR=#ff0000]Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional[/COLOR]
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  19. #19
    Platinum Account Holder
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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Hi Patrick,

    You didn't make any posts in this thread to remove.

    If you have had a post removed or edited in another thread and feel it was wrongly removed or edited, if you want to tell me which thread it was in, I can have a look for you to see if I can find the reason for editing or removal and explain this to you. If I can't see a valid reasoning then I can do a report to the member of site team who unapproved/edited and ask them to explain the reason for it. If it has been edited or removed for any of the reasons within the site rules, I (or the relevant site team member) can explain which rule but I will be unable to reinstate the post as we all have to abide by the rules which are set by adminicon, Site Team included. Alternatively, you can complain to adminicon about it by emailing. If you hover your mouse over the word "adminicon" in this post, the email address to send your complaint to will appear.

    My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

    Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.
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  20. #20
    Basic Account Holder micko19 Novitiate

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    Default Re: help me take Atos and DWP to court

    Hi and very sorry and shocked to hear about your problems. I think i can offer some advice on evidence collection..
    1. Use SARicon's on all related parties even gp surgery. etc.
    2. Always include in an SARicon a couched threat of using Section15(2) in the event of omissions or inaccuracies. Section 15(2) can be used to devastating effect in getting the info they don't want you to see. ALL the big players laugh at standard SAR's until in front of a judge under a section15(2). This is also why cross referencing all your sources is so important. The judge at Huddersfield denied the GE Money Barrister a strike out on the strength of my section15(2) and has left my lawyers with a very strong case on DPA breaches against GE..(micko 1 barrister 0).
    3. Demand Audit Trail information in its entirety the DWP illegally guides its employees not to provide this information,, this should garner every keyboard input against your husbands account. My other thread in this section has a sample SAR I used I cannot link as it is classed as thread hijacking but it is there under micko19.
    4. You need to be patient and diligent in collecting information, i think its worth bearing in mind that solicitors don't collect evidence, you must do all that leaving no stone unturned and bring a strong case to them. It is all a time consuming process. I got break downs of all PPIicon and loan secret commissions to brokers all with the use of section 15(2). One ommission from the broker included by the lender opened the section 15(2) filled in an N1 and all the info gets coughed up.

    also if you have enough for criminal it may be worth bringing the police on a criminal allegation must be investigated. However I would get advice from more senior people on here. My advice is just things i have got from here and learned myself please take as much advice as you can as well as my own and hope you find a way

    I hope these help

    good luck

    mick



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