Honeybee I do indeed remember that debate and the comments made that ATOSH refused to conduct a recorded assessment. Very interesting comments about short hand note taking though! I was considering seriptitiously recording mine, but I doubt I'd be able to afford anything to record with. I will, however, ask around and see who I know that can take shorthand...

Best wishes

Rae

I don't know about cost, Rae, and we have cleverer techies than me here. I thought your average mobile could do it. Or maybe a cagger could lend you a daughter or son to come with you.

I don't see how it's contentious, although Atos would probably disagree with this. I guess you're allowed to take notes, just depends how fast you write, I'm thinking.

Btw Rae, up the revolution, maybe this is part of it . HB x

Interesting point cbbc about documenting an Atos 'medical'. I apologise if it's hijacking the thread for a moment, because this is going backwards, but I also remember a debate on the forum about recording them, do you Rae, I think you were around then?

 

I remember that Atos were not at all keen or even refused that. If you tell them of course . Shorthand skills aren't as common as they were, are they, it would be interesting to know what Atos say on that?

 

HB x

Hi Honeybee13, when I went to my WCA on 19/03/10 they tried to intimidate me into not writing notes - even just the name of the 'Health Care Professional' who assessed me. It put them in a right tailspin when I insisted on writing things down. They aborted the WCA using some lame excuse. Since then they have spewed out a string of silly lies to DWP and myself, taken 10 weeks to refund my travel expenses and got the DWP to stop my ESA. Luckily DWP listened to me and paid me last week ( a day late). I requested sight of their official policy document on note-taking and they lied about that too. They reckon that we can tape record

At the WCA they explained that claimants may tape record proceedings, but only if we use a double tape deck, make 2 simultaneous copies and give them one copy. This brings up images of ITV's 'The Bill' - but do they seriously expect someone on £65.40 per week to go out and buy such a machine? I have seen a brilliant website detailing the shocking experience of a brain tumour sufferer at the hands of Atos, and his very brave and erudite fight against the Atossers: DWP Atos Healthcare Medical Services Contract. Anyway, have read several of your excellent posts and wish you good luck in your own personal fight x

Just a quick note, I rang Welfare Rights and they said they couldn't represent me as I'm not getting social care etc and I'm only seeing a GP/councillor. CAB also said they don't represent.....I don't know what to do now

Hi BettieBoo, I gather that CAB and Welfare Rights resources vary from place to place and I've read one post where CAB were unable to help. In my part of the East Midlands we have a well-funded CAB and an active Welfare Rights and both offer help at the Appeal stage subject to availability of an advisor on the Appeal hearing date. I had my WCA aborted on some lame excuse but it was really because I insisted on taking notes. Atos have 'punished' me by taking 10 weeks to refund my travel expenses and by telling lies to DWP to try and get my ESA stopped. It's a shame that a massive plc with a £500 million contract with DWP feels the need to be so spiteful. Good luck with your case x

Hi Yet Another, very interested in what you have to say about note taking etc. Would you mind starting a new thread on the subject? I think you'll garner some interest...

Click here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=160

Just copy and paste your existing posts to it. [Of course, a member of the Site Team may wave their harry Potter wands before you see this...]

Best wishes

Rae

I hear don't give a Atoss are on TV tonight.

Atos won’t be happy about this and they probably aren’t very pleased about featuring in a TV programme tonight, Wednesday 26th May. Who's Cheating Who?, which questions whether employment and support allowance is fit for purpose and whether profits are being put before welfare, is on at 10.45pm on BBC1 Scotland. (Even if you don’t live in Scotland, you should be able to watch if you have freeview ,Sky or cable TV).

Should be fun.

I had similar problems to you, with anxiety and depression, and psychosis, and felt I was unfit for work.

ATOS disagreed, giving me only 6 points on medical. I appealed their decision a few months ago, and they have reviewed in my favour, granting me support group component.

I felt confused and helpless during the time i put my appeal together, but was saved by a truly helpful, insightful and comprehensive website, who explain every step of the ESA appeal process from filling in your ESA50 to how to prepare for standing in front of a tribunal to present your case.

There is a fee for joining, about 16-00GBP, but it is money well spent. It takes a lot of the confusion and stress out of the equation, which with your condition is a good thing.

It worked for me... good luck with your hearing

GAZBOT:cool:

hey, this is a interesting thread, i'm in the same boat as you guys. i suffer with anxiety and depression, also have severe insomnia (staying awake sometimes 4 days) and i went to my medical, was told my tablets are weak, and because i only see my gp for medication and i don't go to see a therapist that i am perfectly fine, even though i leave the house once a week if that! my assesment was in june 23rd i beleieve, i was then turned down 2 weeks later and i sent off my appeal as soon as i got the letter with a letter of complaint and also saying why i am unfit for working, my doctor also said that she won't write me out a report until they send me back a full medical assesment on which she can then reply to each point they turned me down. i know it is going to a tribunal!

Hi guys its my first post on here but im in a pretty similar position as the rest of you regarding failing the work capability assessment, there are two applications in my case, i was injured at work and lost my job as a result, sacked basically but it was on health grounds.

In my case i needed two operations one on my left shouldr one on my cervical spine [ neck bone].

I applied the first time and couldnt get the benefit due to lack of contributions on my ni side of things, but, please be advised there are two types of ESA one is income related and the other is Ni contribution related.

Went through all the usual of doctors notes and so forth got nowhere, income related wasnt an option as my partner works part time 24.5 per week which unfortunately is classed as full time in their eyes. I had advic from my local MP which was very helpfull and continued to fight as even though you dont get the benefit you still get your contributions paid by the governement, anyway failed the medical with 0 points, i and my two consultants and my two GP all looked at it with me and said i should have qualified 15 points on first part with the alking side of things, anyay this is going to tribunal on the 2 nd of september and i will if anyone is interested post what it was like and how it went for me ect if it helps anyone at all with what you are to expect.

Anyway on January 6th this year i was advised to reapply for ESA a it was a new tax year and i started the lower rate ect, eventually had the dreaded medical on july 7th and low and behold even though they had to come out to me at my home to assess me ihave yet again scored 0 points, i have three months back had two discs replaced in my neck and also fusion above and below them , had full thickness tear repaired in my left shoulder none the less a lot of nerve damage on top of it fom the two damaged discs and i am in the eyes of the ATOS foreign doctor able to work, i am now going to appeal this one and will no doubt end up in tribunal yet again over it as well.

If i could work i would ATOS are a joke and the DWP dealing with my case this time around are in my opinion only using stalling tactics i.e the time i have waited to be examined ect. Which i believe they are doing this to await the outcome of the tribunal of the first time around.

I am on DLA care component and also getting Industrial injuries disablement benefit which are also recently awarded to me from medicals just before the ESA related one.

Has anyone else had anything along the lines of this happen to them, as it is totally contradictory being given the other two in my case and not the other especially when the industrial one consist of me being 50 per cent disabled dont ya think.

Sorry if this post is so long but like i said if anyone is interested in what happenns and if it will help i will post here as and when and while i remember HELLO to ya all.

Hi guys its my first post on here but im in a pretty similar position as the rest of you regarding failing the work capability assessment, there are two applications in my case, i was injured at work and lost my job as a result, sacked basically but it was on health grounds.

In my case i needed two operations one on my left shouldr one on my cervical spine [ neck bone].

I applied the first time and couldnt get the benefit due to lack of contributions on my ni side of things, but, please be advised there are two types of ESA one is income related and the other is Ni contribution related.

Went through all the usual of doctors notes and so forth got nowhere, income related wasnt an option as my partner works part time 24.5 per week which unfortunately is classed as full time in their eyes. I had advic from my local MP which was very helpfull and continued to fight as even though you dont get the benefit you still get your contributions paid by the governement, anyway failed the medical with 0 points, i and my two consultants and my two GP all looked at it with me and said i should have qualified 15 points on first part with the alking side of things, anyay this is going to tribunal on the 2 nd of september and i will if anyone is interested post what it was like and how it went for me ect if it helps anyone at all with what you are to expect.

Anyway on January 6th this year i was advised to reapply for ESA a it was a new tax year and i started the lower rate ect, eventually had the dreaded medical on july 7th and low and behold even though they had to come out to me at my home to assess me ihave yet again scored 0 points, i have three months back had two discs replaced in my neck and also fusion above and below them , had full thickness tear repaired in my left shoulder none the less a lot of nerve damage on top of it fom the two damaged discs and i am in the eyes of the ATOS foreign doctor able to work, i am now going to appeal this one and will no doubt end up in tribunal yet again over it as well.

If i could work i would ATOS are a joke and the DWP dealing with my case this time around are in my opinion only using stalling tactics i.e the time i have waited to be examined ect. Which i believe they are doing this to await the outcome of the tribunal of the first time around.

I am on DLA care component and also getting Industrial injuries disablement benefit which are also recently awarded to me from medicals just before the ESA related one.

Has anyone else had anything along the lines of this happen to them, as it is totally contradictory being given the other two in my case and not the other especially when the industrial one consist of me being 50 per cent disabled dont ya think.

Sorry if this post is so long but like i said if anyone is interested in what happenns and if it will help i will post here as and when and while i remember HELLO to ya all.

Hi Mark,

I was in the same boat as you.

I fell over at work and have been 'let go' due to capability. I have had two ops and was awarded industrial injuries as 28% disabled.

I failed my medical with 6 points even though I was on crutches. ATOS never asked my consultant or GP for any reports.

I complained about the SAME doctor failing me for ESA but agreeing that I had injuries for the Industrial injuries. I was told by the DWP that the medicals were different even though my injuries were the same but I didnt get any where.

My Industrial injuries money gets stopped from my ESA so I dont benefit from it.

I had my tribunal a few weeks ago and was put in the work focused group. It took 7 months though.

The trouble is is that during the tribunal they tell you that nothing that has happened to your health since the medical will be taken into account.

Its a stupid system but it sounds like you would probably win at a tribunal.

Good luck.

Hi CBBC and thanks for your reply, sorry aint been on any sooner but have not been too well, but hey i am here now.

Ok people I have been in touch with consumer legal services who then passed me onto Ty Arian solicitors for my case, I am soory if i am not to post the name of the solicitors but like I said I was passed over to them in same phone call.

As to my appeal I was having help from local MP in my area , but they have now informed me that the caseworker that was helping me has had to have heart surgery and will not be attending. Anyway my point here is the MP or ex MP had now written to my doctor whom had been to my home and examined me fre of charger for the purpose of the fit for work findings and has told me he will back me on this and help in any way he can, I feel lucky about this as the doctor is also the partner of the surgery and also a close friend of the MP which will help I suppose.

Also I have put a complaint into the GMC about the doctor of my recent examination from ATOS and expained that she has indeed put things in the report that were contradictory and also untrue as to what taken place, i.e she put that I can bend and touch my ankles, when in fact I refused to do this as it is too painfull, my gp looked at the report after he examined me and said that this person shouldnt be practicing, I have also now been classed as depressed due to the pressure and stress of it all in the last two years, bear in mind i was found fit for work pre operations needed here and now post operation found fit again, disgusting that i think we have all paid into the pot and then a company like ATOS can bleed it dry and claim public resource by blatently telling porky pies.

I have also sent an e mail off to a reporter at the bbc so as soon as he replies to me I will also post what he says, in the first email i have had back from him he said and i quote" please let me know more . we will be revisiting this subject very soon. The mans name is phil gliders i believe and he is a bbc reporter, so fingers crossed we can get some more of us in on it when he decides to.

I do have a background in advising with the CAB but that was some time back so I will also help as much as i can to anyone here as and when i can, If the forum bosses need some extra help and want to have a chat please get in touch and i will see if i can be of any use to you, according to atos report i should be running a marathon but indeed i struggle to eat a snickers at present ,

Be good now you all and dont do nothing I wouldnt hehehe, will keep you updated as to all above.

Hi everyone,

I've previously posted a few threads and now my dreaded letter has come for my tribunal I'm worried sick about what to expect & have been under so much stress over the last year it's unreal.

Can anyone thats been to a tribunal offer me some advice on what to expect.

I've read online about key factors such as how you dress, your appearance, evidence both medical and non medical etc etc

I've only had one doctors letter as of yet so I don't really have that much evidence to be honest.

I have severe anxiety and depression & have been on so many different medications and seen so many doctors over the last year. I am now currently seeing a psychiatrist who is assessing me for bipolar disorder too.

I'm really unsure what evidence to provide. I had no help except for an info pack from welfare rights & can't seem to find anyone to help support me at my tribunal. I am just going to represent myself and maybe have a family member come with me for support.

The whole stress of this situation is really taking it's toll on me at the moment and especially as I've no idea what to expect when I go there..

I would really appreciate some advice if anyone has any to offer about tribunals..

thanks

Hello there. Don't get stressed over this, you can do it.

I have a sticky on this forum that I may have mentioned to you before. It has a template letter that has helped me and at least 3 other people win their tribunals, plus details on my own and bookworm's tribunals. Please have a read and try to compare what Atos said about you with the DWP descriptors, links in my sticky.

If you have questions after that, please post them. Don't worry.

My best, HB

Hi, Don't stress, i had mine 2 weeks ago and went from 0 points to 18 and support group in 20 minutes.

If you've been to welfare rights then you should ring them to see if someone can attend with you, they did with me.

I suggest you use Honeybee's template and send it in ASAP if you haven't already, i'm sure that using it really helped me win.

As for evidence, don't worry to much, at my appeal they seemed to have already decided that the ATOS report was utter trash and their questions seemed to be more about whether i was a believeable and trustworthy person.

The hearing its self was really nothing to worry about, i know you'll still worry but try not to let it rule your life, win or lose the most important thing is getting the help you need, which it sounds like you are.

Ask anyone who is treating you if they'll do a letter for you, I know that it's supposed to be about how you were at the time of the "medical", but i was asked about how i am now, i said that i've had a tentative diagnosis of a personality disorder recently and they asked me lots of questions about this, I think when it comes to mental health issues them they accept that there is a direct link to how you are now to how you were then. I could be wrong, or maybe just lucky but i answered more questions about the how i am now than how i was in Jan.

I think your right about appearence counting but don't lay it on too think, I just went as me, i didn't put much effort into it really, i had already done the work in the months before, i didn't care if i won or lost because even if i'd lost i would only begin a new claim anyway, it was well past the 6 month limit on claiming again for the same thing, and if i won i knew i'd have another ESA50 to fill in in the new year so realistically we're in a no win situation. OK the backdated money will come in handy, I'm homeless at the moment so i will have enough to pay the deposit for a flat. The fact that if they'd given me what i was entitled to in the first place i wouldn't have lost my last flat sort of takes the joy out of winning though.

If you need anything just ask, and good luck

I agree with HE. When the tribunal asked me questions about my health problems, I felt that they believed me. And HE and I both won, so you can too.

My best, HB x

Thanks for the advice so far.

Today I went to see my GP and they have re assessed my original point scoring on the medical examination and it scored a lot higher than the 12 points the ATOS lady decided to give me. She is also writing me a supporting letter to help with my case.

I've rang my psychiatrist to try get a letter from her too.

I am basically looking at getting the extra 3 points to go up to at least 15. I was originally awarded 12 but I know and my GP knows that I should have had a lot more than that.

What is this about money being backdated if you win a tribunal? I'd never heard of this before.

I'm just dreading the date creeping up on me now but I am going to prepare myself and try and get as much evidence as possible.

I've written out a statement and pinpointed all the errors or things missing from the ATOS report....boy that took a long time!

When I was in your position I did a search for "advocacy" or "advocacy service" and I actually found someone to represent me. She was such a nice lady from the Dorset Mental Health Forum.

As it happened though the jobcentre rang me a week before the tribunal (which would have been at 3 o' clock today by the way) and told me they had changed their decision and I need not go to the tribunal.

This was because my doctor specifically backed me up on everything I said with a letter for the tribunal.

As for back pay, I have been living on £52 per week for 8 months so they owe me the difference from £93 per week.

This was to get my incapacity benefit back and I will have to play the silly game again on ESA when they shunt me on to it next year .

Good luck.

dj

I will try and research that; I could really do with someone to help represent me but at the same time I have read that they only really want to talk to you and not your rep.

I really hope my doctors letter and my personal statement will shed a bit of light but to be honest the statement is only going over my original appeal in the first place so i doubt they'll take much notice of that :/

It's shocking to see how my own doctor point scored me compared to the ATOS lady who knew me all of 10 minutes & made her decisions!

The main reason I wanted representation was because statistics show it doubles your chances. Stupid but true (apparently).

dj

Also do not forget people that you can also request the tribunal be heard closer to you if they are too far away and also like mine it is going to be held at my home address, so please bear in mind that they offer this service as well, although they will need to speak to your GP about your health in my case they have but it is certainly an option as well for you to have them do it at home, They do not really advertise this service but I asked them in writing and they said yes.

Good luck with it and hope it goes well for you.

The tribunal is nowhere near as bad as the medical. ATOS doesn't run it and you feel like they take you seriously. They are interested in facts and don't have an agenda (i.e., to find you fit). I was a mess before my first one but it wasn't that bad. When they reject my current appeal and it goes to tribunal I've little worries.

I agree. I thought my tribunal panel were very fair, and they believe what you tell them.

My best, HB

Hi there,

Have got a couple of weeks now until I have to go to tribunal.

Have sent in my docs letter of support & her re-scoring of the original medical points.

I'm feeling a little apprehensive though as I spoke to a nice man from Welfare Rights earlier & he said that they will only take into consideration my condition at the time of appeal, and it has worsened since then.

He told me to go to tribunal anyway and see what happened as I am only looking to score a minimal of 3 points to get the 15 but I'm more worried now.

I was debating reclaiming again but the man from welfare rights said to just go and see if it will work out.

I'm going to send in my medical evidence to my local jobcentre office regardless so they can take note of my condition worsening but no doubt it will still go to tribunal as it's only 2 weeks away. Eek:!:

I'm sure you can win 3 points, you are almost there. I came back from 2 points and won; they actually conceded a week before the tribunal.

It was for incapacity benefit though. Still, I would expect to win from your position.

Good luck. I hope you win.

- dj

Just to balance the books ... Atos 0 points, Tribunal failed (9 points). Yes the Tribunal seems fair but they don't always understand your medical condition. They are not obliged to - and rarely do - provide experts as medical representatives. Mine was a hackneyed old former GP 2 days away from retirement with no interest. Another claim, another 0 points another Tribunal approaching I don't see passing ... Not trying to be depressing just do your homework and go in with the best you can. Oh, and I had a CAB rep who never quite made it to 10 words spoken. A waste of time.

Good luck and best wishes

Rae