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Myself and my gf are trying to claim bank charges back from her NW account and are having serious difficulties obtaining even the bank statements. I've read some threads on this forum and so knew it could take a while and some persistence, but this is getting silly!
Here's how it has gone:
SAR and £10 cheque sent to her branch which is up north - no response after 14 days and cheque not cleared, so gf went to our local NW branch in Southampton. No notes on the account to say a letter has been received and the cheque hasn't gone out, so we cancelled the chq, wrote another one, wrote another SAR and handed this in to our local branch (got a copy of the letter stamped). After a week she went in and asked if the statements had arrived (we were told it would be about a week) - they hadn't. So she phoned Joyce Tudor direct - Joyce wasn't there but spoke to a nice lady who said they would be at our local branch in 7 days. GF has just been into the branch after waiting 10 days and they aren't there!
Furthermore, and this is where I think it's well dodgy... a note was manually put onto my gf's account details when she last went into the Southampton branch; but this note has now disappeared and there is no record of a statement request ever being made. The same lady who put the note on the account has just looked at my gf's notes and said that it is not there anymore!
Getting really fed up. the lady in the branch phoned the lady in Joyce Tudor's office who has said they will be in the branch by Friday. we shall wait and see....
Ok, so an update. I've lost track a little as since my last post, my gf has STILL NOT received statements and has spent lots of time in our local branch and on the phone to Joyce Tudor's office..... really frustrating as she has been promised the statements would arrive in our local branch about four times now and they haven't turned up.
We had a mini breakthrough yesterday as a really helpful member of staff in our branch took on our cause and is determined we will have the statements by Tuesday. I'll belive it when I see it.
GF also received a letter from a lady in Joyce Tudor's office promising the statements would be delivered yesterday (they weren't - they think they sent them to a random branch up north instead but no-one can find them) and also giving the Nat West definition of what Manual intervention is. Well that's all very interesting, but it doesn't actually answer the SAR on whether manual intervention has happened in my gf's account.
Although we will push to get this, has anybody received a Breakdown of manual intervention? Do we need it?
Also, what was quite interesting was this nice lady in our branch said that all NW staff in her branch have been told to 'act dumb' when asked about people claiming back their bank charges, even though they have briefed about it!
Under the DPA NW have 40 days to comply to a SAR and manual intervention will help at the court stage. If you want simply copy statements then they should take no less than 14 max, I think i may have to revisit statements on the NW thread to clearly as that issue had largely disappeared recently on the threads
Well still no statements, although this may well change at lunctime when gf visits the branch. She popped in yesterday and apparently there was a note on ger account saying they were printed yeatersday and being sent to our local branch. We shall see.
Today is now day 40 since we handed them the SAR and even if the statements turn up today we do not feel we have had full disclosure about manual intervention, so are going to inform NW we will report them to the information commissioner (for providing inadequate information) and then actually do so if they still fail to provide details of my gf's account.
Can anybody advise if they have received anything other than statements from NW, what type of things we should ask for and expect, and also - has anybody reported them to the information commissioner?
Quick update: gf received statements after day 41 and has totted up the charges - a whopping £917.00!!!!
We're gonna double check these figures, write the prelim. letter and take it into our local branch.
We did press the staff in the branch for a full SAR, with details of manual intervention but all they said was that there are no notes on gf's account to say that they have had to intervene and that all the charges are automatic. Well, I guess we're gonna have to take their word for it...... if it gets to court then it will be interesting to hear them defend such high charges.
Just to update: we got back from a fortnight of sun and beer to find a really pathetic letter from somebody at our local branch, not even remotely addressing the issue of bank charges - and also a complaints leaflet. How lazy - it's on with the lba.....
OK, to update: the N1 will be submitted to the court on Monday as I can't imagine NW are going to cough up the money by then, which gives me plenty of time to consider exactly what I put in it.
I submitted a different claim against Cahoot last week and just used the template I find in this website's library. However, it seems that Cobbetts are being really picky about the POC, so would appreciate some advice please:
Shall I just go with the particulars of claim in the library, or should I amend it slightly and if so - what would your recommendations be?
Would appreciate some thoughts on this as I really don't want to mess it up.
Once again though - can anybody advise me about the POC for my N1? Shall I just go with what's in the library or should I add/ amend it, seeing as how Cobbetts are defending on the basis of inadequate PoC?
Update: N1 submitted to the court today along with POC (as per template in the library) and a schedule of charges including the 8% interest. Comes in at nearly £1200.00.
Natwest have acknowledged the claim and intend to defend it all. RBS are defending (a trainee solicitor) which I am really pleased about as from what i've read, they are more likely to settle quickly than Cobbetts. Anybody agree/ disagree with this?
I've swotted up quite a bit regarding Cobbett's tactics and have paid little attention to what RBS do but the claim is for just under £1200 (including court costs).
Yesterday we received a letter from Cobbetts, despite the fact that our acknowledgement from the court said that a trainee solicitor from RBS litigation would be dealing. Oh well, bummer.
Anyway, to give you a feel for the letter... words thrown around included: 'gesture of good will'... '£650'....'you will lose in court'....'don't tell anyone about this'....'charges are fair and transparent'....'will tell the judge if you don't accept this'..... oh yawn yawn yawn, where have I read this before?!
Of course we're going to respond telling them 'you're having a laugh' - but have a couple of questions:
1) Is it worth saying something along the lines of 'can't wait to see your defence so we can get a court date and sort this out'? (Hoping to speed up the process)
2) Whatever response I send, should I send a copy to the court?
I used the standard will accept as partial sett't, but will see you in court response. I didn't embelish the template letter. But, I kept two copies of the letter, and when I handed in my aq at the court this week, I attached both their offer & my response to it, so that the Court had everything in one go rather than drip feeding them. Just an idea?
M-Stanley, Marbles , Barclaycard,Cap 1, NW CC's x 3, NWest, MBNA , HSBC CC ALL WON
Outstanding
Halifax initial 11/10 acknowledged 19/10 LBA 25/10
LTSB initial 12/10 LBA 26/10
Barclays initial 3/10,response 9/10 LBA 17/10,MCOL 1/11, defence &AQ 10/12
Bof Ireland mort' S.A.R 16/10, initial 23/11, LBA 7/12,MCOL 23/12
NatWest home loans S.A.R sent 23/10,Initial 16/12, LBA 6/1
NatWest business a/c initial 9/11, LBA 25/11, MCOL 9/12, AQ 20/1,cheque recieved 17/2 but had to send it back !!
HSBC c/a AQ returned 17/2
HSBC bus' a/c MCOL 17/2
I haven't actually received a defence yet, let alone an aq. So I'll just write a standard partial accpetance offer and fwd a copy to the court by itself. It's just a little bit boring this whole going through the motions, don't you think?
First we received acknowledgement from RBS litigation saying a trainee solicitor was defending the claim; then after three days we received a partial settlement offer from Cobbetts, then a couple of days after this we received acknowledgement from Cobbetts saying that they were defending the claim.
Do you think they've had a mix up and both are defending, or have Cobbetts taken over from RBS? Shall I query this with the court?
Nothing much to update as we're still waiting for the defence after rejecting a 50% partial settlement offer.
My gf did go the court the other day (to file a different claim against Capital One) and asked why we had received two acknowledgements of claim (one from RBS and one from Nobbets) and the woman at the court said it happened quite a bit.
She said NW were so inundated that they often acknowledged twice to ensure they had covered themselves. She also asked how much we were claiming - she said if it's under a grand RBS in house litigation will be dealing and if it's over a grand then Nobbets will.
It really grates me that the courts know the banks's individual 'game plans', we know them and yet NW and their solicitors go through the motions, try to scare us off and waste the courts time. It's about time the banks were told to sort it out so we don't have to jump through hoops to get what we is rightfully ours.
Without this site I would have given up months ago - how many other people are in really dire financial situations where this could make a difference, yet they don't feel confident enough to challenge the banks through the court system?
We received a copy of the defence from Nobbets yesterday, within timescale which was suprising. I've read similar wording on other people's threads but am hoping somebody could confirm what I should do in response.
The defence is:
1. This defence is filed and served witout prejudice to the Defendent's case that the Particulars of Claim do not disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim against the Claimant to recover the bank charges (and interest thereon) referred to in the POC or any other sum(s). In the event that the Claimant does not properly particularise her claim then the Defendant will apply to strike out the claim and/ or summary judgement in respect of the same.
2. On allocation the Defendent invites the Court to direct that there be a case management conference in order for the court to consider the making of appropriate orders to give the claimant the opportunity to properly particularise her claim.
3. No admissions are made as to what charges have been debited to the Claimant's bank account.
4. In relation to the aleagtion that the contractual provisions pursuant to which the charges have been applied are unenforcable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 ("UTCA 1977") and/ or the Unfair Contract terms in Consumer Regulations 1999 ("the regulations") and/ or the common law, the Claimant is required to identify:
4.1 (a) the section(s) of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 ("UCTA 1977"); (b) the regulations of The Unfair COntract Terms in COnsumer Regulations 1999 ("the regulations"); and (c) the principles of common law relied upon by the Claimant in alleging that the contractual provision(s) referred to are unenforceable; and
4.2 the contractual provision(s) that the Claiminat allege are invalid by reference to UCTA 1977 and/ or the Regulations.
Until such time as these sections/ regulations/ provisions are identified the Defendent cannot (save as apppears below) plead to the allegation referred to in paragraph 4 above. The defendent therefore reseves its right to plead further to the allegation once (and if) the Claimant identfies the releavtn contractual information.
5. Save as hereinbefore appears the Defendent joins issue with the Claimant on her claim(s) and denies that it is liable to the Claimant as alleged or at all.
Signed by the infamous Ms Burgoyne...
Now I used the PoC as per the library, did so on an N1 form with attached Schedule of charges, have received and declined a 50% offer (sending yet another schedule of charges with the partial acceptance letter) so am unsure what to do next.
Nobbets have asked me to confirm receipt of the defence. Shall I do so? Should I respond to any/ all of their points?
Yes seems to be their pretty standard defence, waffling on about how you havn't provided enough Particulars of Claim etc. etc. The POC in the library is tried and tested so there's no need to worry on that count, and you've also provided several copies of your schedule. This just happens to be Cobbetts usual way of trying to stall proceedings.
Probably a good idea to acknowledge receipt of their defence, nothing too fancy though, I just popped a brief letter on the fax stating that I had received their defence on xx/xx/xx. Then just wait for the next stage, probably be the aq in the post in the next couple of days..
Lager_Lou vs Nat West****WON****
and £10 cheque sent to her branch which is up north - no response after 14 days and cheque not cleared, so gf went to our local NW branch in Southampton. No notes on the account to say a letter has been received and the cheque hasn't gone out, so we cancelled the chq, wrote another one, wrote another SAR
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NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36