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Can Insurance Company Give Points?


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I had 6 points on my provisional for driving without insurance, after a year, igot a full British licences and didn't know i had to tell the insurance about this 6 points since i believed i got it on provisional , it wasn't important in reference to my new full licences..

 

I got into an accident and it was my fault, now the 3rd party is claiming against me, insurance asked me to send documents which i sent over. Can anyone advise me on what is likely to happen . I am so worried, I have no heard from insurance yet since i sent in documents. Cant even sleep,, Please advise... I am worried if the insurance company by any way get me points or initiate 6 points for me..

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The answer to your question is no. However, you will be on dodgy ground if you didn't declare any previous convictions/ponits on your licence to your current insurers unless they did not specifically ask the question.

 

We have an insurance expert on here; MossyCat who may pick up on this and advise you further.

 

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The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

 

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Sailor, I got this insurance online and i remember they asked for this, but then what fooled my mind was this question came after they asked, have you a full british liences or so. Then the next subsquent questions were about these convictions.

 

Since i got those points on my provisional, all i thought was that, they were talking about my then just acquire full licences so was answering based on that. A year after that, i used the same website to look for insurance and dint change anything basically on my saved file except current mileage of car and one year no claim bonus and how long you have had licences for.

 

Then after i got into accident and they asked for all documents, it was then my friend told me that, they can invalidate my insurance and even initiate/alert the police or court that i had no insurance and which will fetch me another 6 points, meaning i will loose my licences which is abt 1 year and 10months old.

 

All i want to know is, can insurance invalidate my insurance this way and not pay the third party claim and then inform police or court to get me 6 points?

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It is highly unlikely they would notify the police that you were driving with no insurance, but they can invalidate your cover if you didn't provide all the information required when you took out the policy.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

 

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Everything hinges on the wording of the question. If your FULL licence has no points showing, then there is do requirement to disclose, however there is if (1) the points are transferred to your full licence and show on the counterpart, or (2) the timeframe the insurer asks for 2/3/5 years since the points were applied.

 

You could certainly explain your confusion if they challenge you - BUT, they will still retain the right to invalidate your claim, paying out only on the 3rd party claim.

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Buzby, I get what you saying but I am not even claiming, it is the third party claiming. The accident was nothing major.. My headlights needed a fix which was just 45 pounds plus some bumper fix, all making up to about 80 pounds. My excess is about 200 pounds so I do think there was any need to even put up a claim, will be waste of time and my excess means i will have to do it any way!

 

It is the 3rd party claiming and my worry is, can the insurance decide not to pay the 3rd party out and get things more difficult for me. All i am worried about most is if this can go to any extent to fetch me any points on my licences too.

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They'll pay the 3rd party claim. I'm not aware of them shirking this if they try to assert you had no cover, you did but if they claim it was invalid they do this to reject your claim, but as you haven't made one this won't affect you. It's a bit late now, but often you can agree to pay the other party directly and not make a claim at all....

 

Do also remember there is another database to watch out for - IH. Insurance Hunter stores details of individuals and the policies they take out, adding any issues or claims as a fraud prevention/information scraping exercise, so do remember this in future.

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It all depends on the timescales and the actual convictions involved, how many years have passed since you got those convictions and what exactly were they for?

 

If it is less than the duty of disclosure (5 years for general motoring convictions and 7 years for drink driving convictions), then technically your insurers can void the policy. If that happens they will deal with the 3rd party claim and then they will look to you to refund the money that they have paid out. Having said that, if the offences were ones that they would normally accept then they might ask you to pay an additional premium and then they would deal with the claim.

 

Never ever ever offer to pay for the repairs to the third party direct,-

 

1) That is an admission of liability (which may lead to your insurers not granting you indemnity)

 

2) What starts out as a minor damage claim could very soon develop into a very expensive personal injury claim if the other person sees one of those 'had an accident' commercials

 

It is always best to let your insurers deal with it and then refund them their costs if you want to preserve your NCD. And, in any event even if you are not intending to make a claim you still have s duty to inform your insurers of any accidents you are involved in.

 

And finally, as already advised NO an insurer cannot add points to your licence, only a Court (or fixed penalty notice) can do that.

 

Mossy

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Time limits on a 'Duty of Disclosure'? Where is this stipulated? Having deal with insurers who specifically ask "Have you ever received a driving ban?" as Insurance is based on trust - if the OP arbitrarily withholds the information that he was banned 6+ years ago, this is a failure to disclose.

 

If the question is framed to include a timeframe. then there isn't a problem, providing the period has been reached. A check on my 3 active policy proposals had 2 that asked with a 6 year cap, and one with 'have you ever'. Even the rehabilitation of offenders act has no relevance (in the same way US Visa applications claim exemption).

 

Finally, it is a NCD - paying your insurers costs does not 'protect' your policy. Statistically, it IS a claim (although at no cost) so the actuaries decide on the risk... whether you paid the insurers costs or not.

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Time limits on a 'Duty of Disclosure'? Where is this stipulated? Having deal with insurers who specifically ask "Have you ever received a driving ban?" as Insurance is based on trust - if the OP arbitrarily withholds the information that he was banned 6+ years ago, this is a failure to disclose.

 

If the question is framed to include a timeframe. then there isn't a problem, providing the period has been reached. A check on my 3 active policy proposals had 2 that asked with a 6 year cap, and one with 'have you ever'. Even the rehabilitation of offenders act has no relevance (in the same way US Visa applications claim exemption).

 

Finally, it is a NCD - paying your insurers costs does not 'protect' your policy. Statistically, it IS a claim (although at no cost) so the actuaries decide on the risk... whether you paid the insurers costs or not.

 

The question may or may not be framed to include a timescale depending on the insurer, however a question that is phrased 'have you ever been convicted of drink driving' is NOT a valid question since the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act takes precedence. If an individual chooses to answer that and disclose a drink drive conviction that is 12 years ago then that is their choice, however, the same person could equally well answer NO to that question (because the offence is spent) and the insurers have no argument (and they couldn't try to void the policy if it later came to light about a conviction that was beyond the duty of disclosure)

 

I'm not an expert on US Visa laws so I don't know how long they have to be disclosed for, but with motoring convictions the Rehabiliation of Offenders acts most certainly applies.

 

Mossy

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You'll find the RoOA has limited use these days - a whole host of organisations have exemptions from this - sure it makes a mockery of the Offenders Act, but that's what law is all about.

 

Further some (many?) convictions are outwith the scope of the Act - if you fell that an offender is anyone who has transgressed against the law, you'll be in for a shock. The bottom line remains, if they ask and you do not tell, then you are disadvantaged.

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You'll find the RoOA has limited use these days - a whole host of organisations have exemptions from this - sure it makes a mockery of the Offenders Act, but that's what law is all about.

 

Further some (many?) convictions are outwith the scope of the Act - if you fell that an offender is anyone who has transgressed against the law, you'll be in for a shock. The bottom line remains, if they ask and you do not tell, then you are disadvantaged.

 

Buzby there are certain circumstances when convictions have to be disclosed (working with children or vulnerable adults is one), however, if you are asked by an insurer about convictions that are 'spent' and you do not disclose (as described above) then you are NOT disadvantaged.

 

The following is taken from current law

 

Applying For Insurance

 

If the proposal form asks whether the applicant has any previous convictions, the answer can be 'no' if the convictions are spent. This is the case even if the conviction is relevant to the risk which the insurers will underwrite. (For example, spent motoring convictions are not required on a proposal form for motor insurance.)

 

End of

 

Mossy

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End of?

 

Absolutely. Unless there is no offence to be 'spent' under the RoAA, which therefore means if asked, and you do not disclose you remain at risk. It isn't rocket science.

 

If an insurer asks if you have any convictions for burglary, and these are covered by ROAA, there's no problem. This wouldn't also relate to theft from a motor vehicle, if there was only a 6 month sentence as the Act does not cover this. So, if asked if you EVER have had a conviction, there is no '6 year rule'.

 

As for your uncredited quote. Which 'law' does this refer to - ir is just the usual consumer carp from TS or similar that hedges its bets? The answer 'can be no' 8) it also can be YES.

 

This naturally gives the underwriters the ability to argue the toss (and they do). This also means the policyholder has to take it to court and let a judge interprete. Your ability to see tihings only in black and white is doing the forum a disservice.

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I fail to see how stating the actual legal position is doing the forum a disservice.

 

I have stated what the law is, if anyone is in any doubt about disclosure of spent offences then they can seek their own clarification.

 

Mossy

Edited by Mossycat
Mod chose to edit, I chose to delete
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Its amazing how these threads often turn into a slanging match between caggers. This is not a competition to see who is the most acurate! I believe we have answered he OPs question here which was 'No they cannot give you points'.

 

As for the rest of the argument, none of us know how long ago the OPs conviction(s) were and what questions his insurers asked when he took out his policy. From my experiences, insurers normally go back 5 complete years or 10 for serious offences. I personally have never come across an insuer asking 'have you ever'. I believe Mossy is correct when saying about 'spent' convictions. I personally was convicted of drink-driving in 1989 and was banned for 15 months. Recently I had a CRB check carried out on me and that conviction did not show up. Now i'm not sure when such a conviction gets deleted from police records (in fact I didn't know they were in the first place), but it could be after 15 years. The point being, there is no way an insurer can find out about this conviction if it does not appear in a CRB check so if the question were asked of me I could answer 'yes' with confidence although I probably would offer the information anyway because there aren't many insures who would take it into account after 20 years anyway as it isn't relevant now and beyond the duty of disclosure.

 

I suspect that the OPs situation is different however, which is why he is concerned. But surely we have now answered his question so I don't understand why Buzby has found it necessary to challenge Mossy's input.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

 

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