Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder COUNTMEIN Novitiate



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    Default How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    Can any one tell me is there any way to 'respond' to the HCP/ATOS medical report?

    I can hardly believe it's content... It is so onesided! and biased !...it mentions all the things I can do?? ( in theIR OPINION ) but fails to mention all the things I told her I cannot do!! ..It doesn't even mention my 'medical conditions and the operations I have had, and am due to have very shortly!

    Is there any course of redress regarding its content before i go the tribunal? I want to argue most of its content. how do I do this??......

    regards

    countmein x


  2. #2
    Basic Account Holder loan_ranger Informative loan_ranger Informative loan_ranger Informative loan_ranger Informative loan_ranger's Avatar



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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    You first have to exhaust the Atos complaints procedure before you can go to the DWP. No doubt Atos will fob you off, they do this to everyone.
    The ESA LCWRA (limited capability work related assessment) is designed to pick-up on what a "claimant" CAN DO and specifically ignore diagnoses and difficulties being faced.
    Sometimes the LCWRA is immediately followed by the WFHRA (work focussed health related assessment) which should focus on what support and workplace adaptations could help the claimant return to work, this is the report they give to your JCP adviser to use if you fail to get into the (top) support group.

    You can complain about the way in which the Atos HCP treated you and you can complain about incorrect scoring, but complaining about the purpose and methodology of the test will get you nowhere.

    This website is well worth a read before you set off along the complaints procedure.

    Regards, Paul.

    I'm not a qualified welfare rights adviser, but I'm planning on becoming one. I'm no substitute for more competent advice from trained CAB and welfare rights workers - see this post by Joa, great advice and links!
    I've been running a Crisis Loan campaign and help since Jan 2007 . See my annotations c/o "theyworkforyou". I'm also currently interested by the recent DWP Medical Services reform and the effect this is having on valid claims, seriously - someone needs to be keeping a suicide count.
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  3. #3
    Basic Account Holder COUNTMEIN Novitiate



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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    Quote Originally Posted by loan_ranger View Post
    You first have to exhaust the Atos complaints procedure before you can go to the DWP. No doubt Atos will fob you off, they do this to everyone.....


    ....You can complain about the way in which the Atos HCP treated you and you can complain about incorrect scoring, but complaining about the purpose and methodology of the test will get you nowhere.
    thank you ever so much for that link ( wish I had all that info at the beginning of this 'nightmare' )...


    Have already complained to ATOS regarding this and to the DWP too...asked my MP and he raised 'concerns' too... ALL TO NO AVAIL THOUGH??...

    Has anyone ever challenged them in the courts? ....

    Is there no orgainisation that will take them on?? As us 'little fish' can't compete against these 'BIG FRYS" ...

    Thanks again... shall keep battling on ..

    regards

    countmein x


  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder loan_ranger Informative loan_ranger Informative loan_ranger Informative loan_ranger Informative loan_ranger's Avatar



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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    I don't know if the bloke who put UP that (linked) website is willing to talk to people or give advice, but there are contact details on his 'top-level domain' home page which is used for his SEO (search engine optimization) business.
    Judging from the tone of his Atos pages I think he may well be taking the DWP and Atos to court, but that's just my opinion.

    Best regards and good luck, Paul.

    I'm not a qualified welfare rights adviser, but I'm planning on becoming one. I'm no substitute for more competent advice from trained CAB and welfare rights workers - see this post by Joa, great advice and links!
    I've been running a Crisis Loan campaign and help since Jan 2007 . See my annotations c/o "theyworkforyou". I'm also currently interested by the recent DWP Medical Services reform and the effect this is having on valid claims, seriously - someone needs to be keeping a suicide count.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    Honeybee has written a templateicon which is in the stickies about challenging a medical report in tribunal.

    My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

    Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.
    (exceptions for prior authorisation)


    If my advice has been helpful, please show your gratitude by taking a moment to click on the star icon on the bottom strip of my post






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  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder mikebach Novitiate mikebach's Avatar



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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    I am writing the DWP ESA Medical Examinations
    web site. My health is very poor at the moment but I can have the occasional respite though I am always very very tired. I am too flaky to reply to emails as quick as I would like though you can write to me at (edit) It might take some time to reply or I may just have passed on. Every few weeks I take a further step worse.

    1. Insist that the DWP pay you your allowance immediately or at worst within the time period set in the legislation (6 weeks I think).

    2. A qualified medical advisor MUST decide whether a face to face assessment is necessary. Qualified means being a specialist in the particular medical condition or has contacted the patient's GP or Consultant. Ask in writing for the medical condition and point out that you may want to refer the matter to the GMC.

    2. If a face to face assessment is required then it MUST be undertaken by a qualified medical advisor as above. I define the medical conditions as set out in the Contract between the DWP and Atos. If the medical advisor is not qualified as specified in the Contract then this is a serious assault. The police should be called. Most Atos medical advisors will back away if they know that their patient is familiar with the Contract.

    3. It is best to insist that any assessment should be a domicilliary visit (at your home). The medical reason is to reduce stress on the patient. Don't waste the time of your GP to justify this, ask Atos to write their medical reasons and point out that you may want to refer the matter to the GMC.
    Atos would have to write explaining why making you travel miles is medically good for you as a patient. This is why they prefer you to talk to your GP. It costs them less. DWP pay Atos for medical advice. The DWP does not pay your GP.

    4. Keep emailing Atos and complaining if necessary and do not allow yourself to be bullied by unqualified appointment clerks. Be polite and keep saying I am waiting for information from Atos or DWP or my MP or CAB etc.

    5. The Atos complaints procedure must be completed in full. The DWP complaints procedure does NOT consider medical matters. It considers legal correctitude.

    6. At the end DWP and Atos back away hoping to cost you as much as possible in legal fees. You win one case. They lose one. It costs you much more and Atos increase their profits.

    I do the above but I also like the following approach.
    European Tender Notices TED
    In the search box enter "UK Medical" or "UK NHS" or similar.
    Check project by project and find the contact email.
    Email the contact for the tender. Insist they carry out
    due diligence on Atos Origin. Make them aware of the following.

    Dec 2009: Seriously ill cancer patients are being forced to undergo "cruel" back-to-work interviews despite the fact they should be exempt.

    Nov 2008: Inquiry into loss of confidentialicon data on 12 million website users.

    April 2007: 900 patients to be recalled for scans so NHS bosses suspended tests being carried out by Atos Origin.

    May 2006: Almost 80,000 sick and disabled people a year are being wrongly denied benefits, according to a BBC investigation for Radio Five Live.

    March 2005: UK DWP hires Atos Origin to provide medical assessments.

    Point out that if Atos are awarded the contract this decision may be subject to Judicial Review. You are concerned how poor Atos has performed. You are concerned at the apparent influence of Atos. Atos will eventually deliver the quality of service as set out in legislation and the contract or they will lose more and more business. Publicity is everything.

    I have published my experience on my website
    http://www.whywaitforever.com/dwpatos.html
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  7. #7
    Gold Account Holder pompeyfaith Authoritative pompeyfaith Authoritative pompeyfaith Authoritative pompeyfaith Authoritative pompeyfaith Authoritative pompeyfaith Authoritative pompeyfaith Authoritative pompeyfaith Authoritative pompeyfaith Authoritative pompeyfaith Authoritative pompeyfaith Authoritative



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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    mike great post thank you it should be a sticky as it contains info that will be useful to many ill ask siteteam to action that ill take a look at your website after ive had my dinner PF


  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder loan_ranger Informative loan_ranger Informative loan_ranger Informative loan_ranger Informative loan_ranger's Avatar



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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    @ mikebach

    I'm so glad that you posted here because I recommended your DWP ESA Medical Examinations website to everyone reading this thread.

    I wasn't sure that you'd be OK with the idea of caggers contacting you, but now that you've provided an e-mail address, may I say thank-you from all of us.

    I found your web pages most informative and helpful (well researched and written + great links and addresses)
    I repeat my recommendation that all caggers going through the ESA process ought to read your site ASAP and save themselves from pit-falls and frustration.

    Best regards, Paul.

    I'm not a qualified welfare rights adviser, but I'm planning on becoming one. I'm no substitute for more competent advice from trained CAB and welfare rights workers - see this post by Joa, great advice and links!
    I've been running a Crisis Loan campaign and help since Jan 2007 . See my annotations c/o "theyworkforyou". I'm also currently interested by the recent DWP Medical Services reform and the effect this is having on valid claims, seriously - someone needs to be keeping a suicide count.
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  9. #9
    Basic Account Holder Yet_Another_Atos_Victim Novitiate



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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    Hi Mike,

    Thank you for your web pages ( DWP ESA Medical Examinations ) giving details of your battle with Atos, and making it easier for others to stand a better chance of fighting Atos' shameful behaviour.

    I know from your site that you're constantly exhausted by your condition, so please don't waste any energy replying but rather continuing to publish so clearly what you know. God bless you.


  10. #10
    Basic Account Holder niness Novitiate



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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    Hi, I'm a newbie to CAGicon so I'm still finding my way around the forums but it's uplifting to know I'm not the only one suffering at the hands of Atos.

    I actually found Mike's site before I found CAGicon and I can only agree totally with the comments above. There is so much information to help the rest of us that are still fighting the war against Atos.

    You are so eloquent in your communications Mike, and you have obviously done much research. I can sense them questioning their own systems, getting more angry with every reply and then writing through gritted teeth. It certainly couldn't be made up and would be funny if it was not so sad.

    Whilst here, does anyone know if it's correct that a second medical can be requested if you are unhappy with the first? I've been told this, but I suspect it may be as fictitious as my Atos medical report!

    Best regards Nick


  11. #11
    Basic Account Holder jclassic1 Novitiate



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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    Hi to everyone suffering at the hands of the ESA.
    I have been trying to get accepted onto ESA since Feb 2010.I have had 2 medical assesments(if you can call it that)and a tribunal hearing all of which I have failed.I am under a specialist consultant at the hospital for my condition which is progressive and getting worse but this does not help when dealing with the ESA.My consultant has advised me not to go back to a working enviroment as it could be dangerous with the chance of having a serious accident but none of this is looked at by the ESA.At my last assesment I failed the hearing test and being able to understand what people were saying to me but still scored 0 points.Also the question concerning bladder dissorders I have medication for this complaint but still scorred 0 points.
    I feel now that my only option left is to seek legal advice as the ESA seem quite prepared to put my health at risk by forceing me back into work just to save money and make their numbers look better.
    I am really not sure what to do next but this forum has opened my eyes to the size of the problem.


  12. #12
    Basic Account Holder Dilizjo Novitiate



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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    As Countmien asked has anyone challenged the ATOS/ESA/DLA/Government issue through the courts as imo they are contraveining Basic Human Rights of those who are most vulnerable in our society. Surely if a prisoner who has been sentenced for the most horrific acts can claim compensation for another prisoner poking him in the eye and recieve thousands in compensation for it, then the harm that this system causes already ill people is Human Rights Abuse.
    Mike I think your website is great


  13. #13
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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilizjo View Post
    As Countmien asked has anyone challenged the ATOS/ESA/DLA/Government issue through the courts as imo they are contraveining Basic Human Rights of those who are most vulnerable in our society. Surely if a prisoner who has been sentenced for the most horrific acts can claim compensation for another prisoner poking him in the eye and recieve thousands in compensation for it, then the harm that this system causes already ill people is Human Rights Abuse.
    Mike I think your website is great
    Which article of the European convention on Human Rights do you think is being contravened?


  14. #14
    Basic Account Holder Dilizjo Novitiate



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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    I am not an expert in Human rights but believe that in layman's terms they mean that everyone should be able to live their lives in safety and dignity regardless of their Race, Religion, Social Status etc. It is my personal opinion that the system that is in operation now is denying deserving indiviuals who are vulnerable due to illness etc these basic rights, by causing more stress and pushing people who feel they cannot physically or mentally into a situation where they try to go back to work or just drop out of the benefit system at the same time as in many cases actually making their health issues worse.
    As I am appealing my DLA refusal and have reams of papers from them that I am trawling through I am being denied both safety and dignity in my life. In their eyes it may seem ok for my Son (19) to help me whilst getting dressed doing such things as helping with underwear at times but in my eyes that is a massive loss of dignity. He does all the preparing and cooking as I drop things and have sut and scaulded myself quite a few times, that deals with the safety in the home, but going out is another issue as my walking can be really bad and I have been known to fall, as he has aggrophobia I do not go out much only to the hospital or doctors.
    When I had my first medical assessment refused I also went back onto JSA as I felt as if I was being looked down on and that I was making my condition up, only to be told by the JCP lady I saw there during an interview that I should be in reciept of ESA and DLA this and another medical assessment resulted in more flare ups of my condition, causing more pain and anxiety caused by lies and fiction on a report and the stupid amount of red tape and questions that need answering.


  15. #15
    Basic Account Holder jclassic1 Novitiate



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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    I can identify completely with the above post,I too went to sign back on after being rejected after my first assesment and failed tribunal hearing only to be told by the staff member at the job centre that my ESA was still running even though I had been told it would be cancelled.I am so fed up with all of the stupidity that we all seem to have to put up with by people not qualified to judge us.
    I have e-mailed Atos complaining about their running of this benifit but do not expect to get a reply as I have mentioned taking legal action against them.
    I receive no benefit and refuse to go and sign back on as in doing so admits defeat to this corrupt system.

    John


  16. #16
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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilizjo View Post
    I am not an expert in Human rights but believe that in layman's terms they mean that everyone should be able to live their lives in safety and dignity regardless of their Race, Religion, Social Status etc. It is my personal opinion that the system that is in operation now is denying deserving indiviuals who are vulnerable due to illness etc these basic rights, by causing more stress and pushing people who feel they cannot physically or mentally into a situation where they try to go back to work or just drop out of the benefit system at the same time as in many cases actually making their health issues worse.
    As I am appealing my DLA refusal and have reams of papers from them that I am trawling through I am being denied both safety and dignity in my life. In their eyes it may seem ok for my Son (19) to help me whilst getting dressed doing such things as helping with underwear at times but in my eyes that is a massive loss of dignity. He does all the preparing and cooking as I drop things and have sut and scaulded myself quite a few times, that deals with the safety in the home, but going out is another issue as my walking can be really bad and I have been known to fall, as he has aggrophobia I do not go out much only to the hospital or doctors.
    When I had my first medical assessment refused I also went back onto JSA as I felt as if I was being looked down on and that I was making my condition up, only to be told by the JCP lady I saw there during an interview that I should be in reciept of ESA and DLA this and another medical assessment resulted in more flare ups of my condition, causing more pain and anxiety caused by lies and fiction on a report and the stupid amount of red tape and questions that need answering.
    I understand what you're saying, but the human rights convention is specific, and I seem to remember a woman losing a case recently requiring her council to provide night time care to use the commode, so she didn't have to be incontinent.

    I'm not saying its right, but at the moment this is the law we have to work with. There is no right to dignity (although this is a consideration within article 3), and I doubt the ESA system would meet the definition for article 3 - torture, for most people - though the repeated, close assessments and appeals may mean that some will have a case closer to the definition, and certainly for those on ESA plus DLA when the atos assessments start for DLA may, unless the system is drastically changed, be facing a situation where each year they fail an assessment for both ESA and DLA, have to be appeal both decisions, win, and then are immediately assessed again and then fail again and have to appeal - I believe this situation may meet the criteria for severe mental cruelty at the least, and so in some cases may come within the bounds of article 3.

    Article 14, discrimination, is a difficult one as it only applies to other rights in the convention, but I suppose if you could prove the ESA systematic and repeated assessments and appeals was at the level of torture, then article 14 would also have been contravened as well as the system applies to those with disabilities or ill health.

    It would take an expert in human rights law to make the case though, as it is not a typical one. But such a case would force the government to change the assessment process.


  17. #17
    Basic Account Holder Dilizjo Novitiate



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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    Thankyou Leemack, yours is about the clearest explanation of Human Rights I have seen, it is just a pain that it would prove so hard for people such as ourselves to apply them


  18. #18
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    Default Re: How Do I Reply To The Esa Medical Report?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilizjo View Post
    Thankyou Leemack, yours is about the clearest explanation of Human Rights I have seen, it is just a pain that it would prove so hard for people such as ourselves to apply them
    Indeed, human rights should be automatic, but too often people have to go through a long difficult process in order to claim them.



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