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Yesterday afternoon I borrowed a van from my university's bus depot, and parked outside in a dead-end of what I thought was a public road. I was told when borrowing the van that I could park out in the road as there were no spaces in the depot, but when I returned the van later I found that I had been clamped.
I asked in the depot weather it was anything to do with them, just incase it had been a misunderstanding, but they had no idea. The clamper returned a few minutes later and I asked about why I had been clamped and where the signs where, as I couldn't see any. The clamper informed me that the road was actually a private road owned by the business park, and that they had a sign on a lamp post about 200 yards down the road. I tried to argue that the signs were totally inadequate, as it was impossible to see any from where I had parked, but this didn't get me anywhere.
I explained to the clamper that I was a student and didn't have money to cover the £120 release fee in my account, and he insisted that I had to come up with the money somehow or I would be towed away. I called my university lecturer who had arranged for me to borrow the van, and he offered to pay over the phone, but the clamper refused to accept phone payments. I asked weather he could wait for the morning and my lecturer could pay in person, but he told me that he had called the tow truck and my car would be removed.
I decided to attempt to remove the clamp myself, and started to jack up the vehicle, but the clamper quickly got an extra chain out of his car and attached it to my suspension. I gave up removing the clamp so that he would leave, and once he had I carried on. I managed to remove the clamp successfully without damaging it, by removing the wheel and unbolting the wishbone, but the extra chain had been wrapped around part of my chassis and padlocked to the suspension spring, so it was impossible to remove!
So I put my car back together and very carefully drove it home (I live very close by) with this chain still attached. I tried to hand the clamp in at Hatfield police station but they were closed, so I have it with me and will call the clamper today to return it.
So my question regards the extra chain on my car. In my view this is not part of the clamp, and is not immobilising the vehicle; although it would make it dangerous to drive if left on. What are my rights regarding the removal of this extra chain? I have left it on as I don't want to do any damage to their property, and I plan on asking the clampers to remove it. What are my rights now that I have removed the car to my own property, is the vehicle now illegally immobilised? I really need to know where I stand legally before I call the clamper and try to get them to remove it.
I am just uploading some photos of the scene, and will post them in a few minutes.
Thank you for reading, any help will be greatly appreciated!
My car as parked: you can see that it looks like a perfectly acceptable place to park, at a dead-end with no visible road markings or signage.
The sign on the lamp post.
My vehicle viewed from the end of the road - spot the sign!
From another angle so you can make out the sign's position.
And a shot from the end of the road, where I had parked. Spot the sign!
Here is the clamp as removed, we took pictures and a video of the clamp before removing it and highlighted areas of damage. We also recorded the whole removal process, and made a video of the clamp after removal.
And finally, here is the extra chain and padlock that the clamper had attached to my suspension, completely separate to the clamp. You can see that the chain is padlocked to the spring, the other end is wrapped around the front subframe.
Unfortunately while I can remove the padlock from the spring easily enough, the padlock is too large to pass through the shackle around the subframe, and the subframe forms a complete loop that the chain cannot be removed from. I used cable ties to keep the chain and padlock out of the way while I carefully drove home.
I should also mention that I removed the rear wheels while I went home to pick up my tools, which stopped them from being able to tow it away.
I would keep the clamp and cut the chain off. Invite them to sue you in court. keep the photographs of the whole situation.
Their signage is completely unacceptable. Clampers seem to think they are the law and can do anything they like, falling back on the old 'it is illegal to remove it' which of course it is not unless it is a DVLA or police/traffic warden clamp.
Whatever happens, do NOT pay them.
I suspect they will contact the police to claim you have stolen the clamp. Well, no. They fitted it to your car and thus you haven't stolen anything. You are keeping it is evidence for a future court date.
Well the thing is I haven't paid the removal fee, I just removed the clamp and drove home. The car is now on my property so does that legally justify me removing the chain? I would have to cut it to remove it and I really don't want to be doing that if it means I could be prosecuted for criminal damage!
The way I see it, is that the vehicle is now falsely immobilised on my property, and I should therefore have the right to remove the chains and padlock and not be liable for any damage. But I will only do this as an absolute last resort! I want the clamper to come and remove the chain and padlock, but I know that he won't be happy to as he was incredibly stubborn. I would need to have absolute confidence that he was obligated to remove it before I ask him to, I'm sure you can understand!
As an addition, when you enter this road or the estate, is their any sign to indicate it is a private road? I would check with the council. If it is a public road, and I strongly suspect it is, they have commiteed a serious offence.
Yes, cut the padlock off. It is not part of the clamp and should never have been fitted even if the signs were clear - which they are not.
Make it very clear to the owner of the car that you will NOT pay for clamp removal as the clamp was illegally fitted. If they choose to pay that is up to them.
Personally, I would first of all edit the photos that identify your car hera as they can identify you.
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Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.
The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.
I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.
Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.
Personally, I would first of all edit the photos that identify your car hera as they can identify you.
Thank you, I'll do that now!
Originally Posted by JimmySpangle
As an addition, when you enter this road or the estate, is their any sign to indicate it is a private road? I would check with the council. If it is a public road, and I strongly suspect it is, they have commiteed a serious offence.
Nope, there are no signs indicating it is private property. But apparently the entire business park and all of the roads are private property and belong to the owners of the business park.
by the looks of the sign its a bit of paper in a plastic wallet
and if it was a private road the signs would have to be @ the start of the road etc etc
get a photo of it , and post it, sounds like a [problem] , and get the name of the clamper etc
seem this before chances put signs up get a killing for a few days and move on, no one notices until a few people start complaining by that time they have moved on
any real clamper would now they cant put that extra chain on
Right, just got off the phone to the clamping company and my blood is literally boiling in my veins! He said that I have stolen their property as I drove off with their clamp and that I would be receiving a court summons from them soon. I explained that I had made every effort to return the clamp to them last night, but their man had gone home, and the police station was closed, and I was merely looking after it so that I could return it today. The bloke on the phone made some smart-arsed remark about how if he had gone and taken a TV from Curry's then would that count as looking after it, so I said it would if Curry's had chained it to his vehicle and then closed the shop.
Basically I told him that I had been to the CAB and that they had given me information that suggests his clamping was illegal, and that he is now falsely imprisoning my car on my property without my permission. I offered for him to come and collect his clamp, and said that if they removed the chain from the suspension then we could drop it. He said that they don't want the clamp back, and that they would be contacting the police! So I said that I will go to the police station and report it, and will be leaving the clamp with them as intended, and he hung up.
So it looks like the Mondeo will be out of action for the time being, and I need to get myself some legal advice pretty quick! Luckily I do have another car that I can use for the time being!
just offer to return it or leave it at thepolice station with details of who owns it. but take plenty of pictures to show no damage and when you hand it in to the police station get them to sign that the clamp is 'functional and workng". Clampers can't issue a summons for theft - what do you know it looks like a clapmer lied. The police would have to so first they would have to take the clamper seriously, then come and interview you and fill in loads of paperwork. you think all that is going to happen ? Plus "He said that they don't want the clamp back" I hope you recorded that call !!.
AIUI To prove theft they have to prove that you intended to permanently deprive them of their property. You've tried to hand it in to the police which would demonstrate that was not your intent.
If I were you I would go back to the police station and hand it in as "lost property" and get a receipt. The cops should take it. If they don't claim it then after 6 weeks (I think) you can claim it as your own.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stealing requires dishonesty.
Make a detailed note of your conversation and send it to the clampers.
Get the clamp to the police station as lost property and inform them who it belongs to and that they have declined to come and pick it up.
When you write to the clampers give them a deadline to come and remove their chain from your vehicle at no cost to you or damage to your vehicle failing which you reserve the right to remove it and invoice them with the costs involved.
************************* *******************
Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.
The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.
I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.
Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.
You have their property, and they have asked for it back. If you take reasonable steps to return it to them, then they have no claim for theft.
If they want to make any claim, it will be a civil claim , not a criminal claim, and it will be for them to prove it, and for you to counterclaim for the incorrect clamping.
Take photos of the clamp to show it was not damaged.
If they come to collect it, make sure you have some friends round!
Clamp removed and vehicle driven away.
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Originally Posted by Bernie_the_Bolt
