Thread: parking ticket. broken single yellow line / not T bar

Hello all.
I recently got a pcn ticket for parking on a single yellow line that was hardly visable due to it being worn away and was partly obscured by hoardings a demolition firm had errected. There where no sign posts displaying I was parked in a restricted area during prescribed hours. Also there was no T bar at the end. It was issued by liverpool city council and was a PCN code 1 which states " Parked in a restricted area during prescribed hours"

So. Can I fight and win this case on either
1. There was no signs erected
2. the line was cot continious as it was worn and broken
3. There was no T bar at its start or finish

Thanks in advance!

If the road markings are not to the exact standard laid out in the TSRGD 2002, then the enforcements are illegal.

Without photos we can't give much advice.

We've seen 'barely visible' lines to suddenly be very clear on photos, for example (not that I'm doubting you!)

Originally Posted by newmoses

If the road markings are not to the exact standard laid out in the TSRGD 2002, then the enforcements are illegal.

TPT appeal BO 355

The state and quality of double yellow lines (BO 355)
The appellant, issued with a pcn for parking on double yellow lines in a restricted area, appealed on the ground that the lines were not at all distinct. The Adjudicator said that the Regulations provided that a council's lines "shall be of the size, colour and type shown on [the] diagram". In his opinion, it was not the law that the lines should be in a perfect condition all of the time; councils could not be expected to repaint them at regular intervals or every time road repairs may have created minor diversions. What was important was whether or not the state and quality of the lines at any one time made it clear to motorists that there were in fact double yellow lines there. While lines became worn and faded in varying degrees from time to time for various reasons, they were still enforceable if a motorist, looking at the state and quality of the lines, would inevitably have to say to himself that, despite their minor imperfections and fading colour, it was nonetheless clear that they were - and remained - double yellow lines. strong. The appeal was dismissed.



London Borough of Camden v Mr K J Minier

Case Reference: 203022636A PCN: CD31536097


DECISION


The Parking Attendant noted what appear to be all the details of Mr Minier's car and issued
this Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) because the car was parked on a single yellow line during
the hours of restriction. The car was subsequently removed. Mr Minier has never disputed
that his car was parked as alleged, but appeals on the basis that the yellow line was invalid,
and the PCN consequently unenforceable, because the line "did not have the required
termination bars" (commonly known as "T-bars"). The Council do not dispute that there are
no T-bars at the ends of this stretch of yellow line. However they respond by stating, "It is
normal practice to lay T-bars at points where the waiting restrictions, as such, change or
terminate at an unrestricted area. It is not usual practice to provide them where the line abuts a
parking bay, pedestrian crossing or similar feature with its own markings. The stretch of
yellow line in question falls between two properly demarcated parking bays with their own
restrictions in operation." The Council state that they are satisfied that this 'normal practice'
conforms to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002, and that the relevant
diagram in those regulations, "...clearly shows that T-bars are required where double or single
yellow line restrictions terminate at a point where there are no further restrictions in force. At
no point do the regulations state that T-bars are required in the circumstances in question
where the restrictions change from one form to another."Mr Minier says in his appeal, "The
question is not what's usual practice, but what is required by the law". As the Council
indicate, the form of signs and road markings are prescribed by the Traffic Signs Regulations
and General Directions 2002 (the Regulations). The Diagrams showing single and double
yellow lines are 1017 and 1018 respectively. Both show a T-bar at one end of the yellow
line(s). The tables under the Diagrams, at item 4, contain the entry, "Permitted variants:
None". The Regulations therefore permit no variation to the form of the yellow line(s) as
shown in the Diagrams, and a T-bar must appear wherever the yellow line stops and starts, for
whatever reason. However there is an established principle of law enshrined in the Latin
expression de minimis non curat lex - "The law does not concern itself with trifles". This
yellow line indicated that waiting was restricted on a clearly defined length of this street. The
line ends adjacent to the white lines indicating the limits of a parking place. In that context, it
cannot possibly be said that Mr Minier or any other motorist would be misled or confused by
the absence of T-bars. Whilst that was a defect in the form of the line, it is one which is
immaterial and so minor that Mr Minier may not rely on it to avoid liability for a penalty
charge. I am satisfied on the evidence of the Parking Attendant that this contravention
occurred and that the PCN was properly issued. Accordingly I refuse this appeal.


Adjudicator Mr Hugh Cooper
Decision Refused

it will all depend on the finding of fact in the individual case.

Originally Posted by Al27

Without photos we can't give much advice.

We've seen 'barely visible' lines to suddenly be very clear on photos, for example (not that I'm doubting you!)

What about where the single yellow line was completley covered over by demolition firm's hoardings. Only the entrance and exit lines where visable? (The car was parked on the road, but it was in a sort of layby. The road cuts in the depth and lenght of a car so you can park there without interfering with the flow of traffic using the road)
Anyway, the decision has been made. I've taken photos, I'm off to asda tomorrow to get them developed and I'm going to fight the case. There isnt even any lamp posts with restricted times of parking shown on the road, the yellow line is almost entirly covered and is hardly visible in places. It time to **** or get off the pot me thinks! Whish me luck !!