Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
I took a £20k secured loan out about 1 and a half to 2 years ago now and been paying the extortiante rates back since. Never missed a payment till now.
Ive hit financial difficulties and need some help. I believe my CCA in incorrect and am considering putting it into dispute also, Reason i Believe the agreement is a bit strange is I have asked for details of it since I lost the originals and they seem very reluctant to supply me anything at all !! I also asked for settlement figures and they are avoiding tell me ?? No idea why ??
The copy scanned is just the same as I received and very very bad quality. I just called welcome and they also said its a very bad copy. I asked them over the phone to confirm the figures which they couldn't as they neither could read them !!
Compliance officer then went off to speak to her manager and said they will send out something else to confirm the figures but it wouldn't be the CCA ??
But in the mean time from what i can make out its :
Acceptance fee £235.00 mortgage Indemnity fee - £0.00 interest Charge £49729.15
Total charge for credit - £49964.15
The only reason I can see the difference in date as because of the 7 day cooling off period. Maybe I signed on 15/08 and completed 22/08. As I can see from the attached secured loan statement that money was transferred on 22/08
haha you put your decimal point in wrong place or that is the worst welcome agreement ever !!!!
add acceptance fee and you total will be £702.68.44 (criminal) devide by 180 months to give a monthly repayment figure of £390.38
3/4 of a mill . . . .
I am a consumer helping other consumers. Together we can and will make a differance. Please double check any information or advise I may give as I like yourself am learning as I go along in life.
1) give a small donation to this site to keep it going because without this forum I would know nothing.
2) Use your experience to help somone else on another thread.
Please do not PM me, my mail address is my username at this site address . I will not under any circumstances give out advise or help through mail, only on the open forum, however feel free to mail me to point me towards your thread and general talk etc.
The agreement is out by 304.24, this is what you will be left to pay once you think it is paid off.
I am a consumer helping other consumers. Together we can and will make a differance. Please double check any information or advise I may give as I like yourself am learning as I go along in life.
1) give a small donation to this site to keep it going because without this forum I would know nothing.
2) Use your experience to help somone else on another thread.
Please do not PM me, my mail address is my username at this site address . I will not under any circumstances give out advise or help through mail, only on the open forum, however feel free to mail me to point me towards your thread and general talk etc.
What is confusing me completely on all of these is that:
a) we all agree that there is a shortfall on the credit agreement through the figures being incorrect.
However, what is it legally that is wrong with it, in terms of legisation?
Reason I am saying this is that:
1) Wilson interpreted S9(4) as specifically saying that the ‘charge for credit’ (including fees) was not credit. Following Wilson the fees must not be added to the total amount of credit, and of course the agreement doesnt. If they changed this agreement to show that the fees added to credit, then it would be clearly should be automatically unenforceable.
2) Do we then perhaps question the fact and ask the scum how the acceptance fee and any other charges say MIF are paid off to end the agreement?
Clearly, paying off the amounts stated and ending up with a shortfall would essentially mean that the agreement is in clear breach of the presribed terms, because essentially:
Schedule 6, (5) Consumer Credit Agreements:
"A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following --
a) number of repayments
b) amount of repayments
c) frequency and timing of repayments
d) dates of repayments
e) the manner in which any of the above may be determined
or in any way, and in any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.
All I seem to read from them is that fees are allowed to be included in the agreement as per the case law such as Griffiths, Southern Pacific, Wilson etc, but nothing to cut that right down.
I think the above is the only way to sort this out once and for all by asking the fos, JUDGE, SCUM etc, how the debtor is to discharge this agreement.
If clearly they cannot, then its simply and automatically unenforceable..
Re post 12, by way of demonic advocacy: faced with that arguement I think Welcome would say:
1. There wouldn't be a shortfall. You just think there'd be a shortfall because you're working out interest based on the APR. All you've proven is that the APR is wrong. (ditto for interest rates if that's what you've used, unless of course the rate is variable...)
2. APR is not a prescribed term, therefore we can get a discretionary enforcement order under s127.
3. Even if the agreement does not explicitly say when fees will be paid, that is not a breach of Schedule 6 para 5. The fees are paid within the regular payments. Here are some sums (like their "statement of price" thing) that show how.
Re post 12, by way of demonic advocacy: faced with that arguement I think Welcome would say:
1. There wouldn't be a shortfall. You just think there'd be a shortfall because you're working out interest based on the APR. All you've proven is that the APR is wrong. (ditto for interest rates if that's what you've used, unless of course the rate is variable...)
Schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit Regs 1983, rate of interest (4) clearly states that (quote) "a term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided on the agreement"
Clearly the interest rate is factually incorrect and thus a breach of prescribed term has occured.
2. APR is not a prescribed term, therefore we can get a discretionary enforcement order under s127.
see above
3. Even if the agreement does not explicitly say when fees will be paid, that is not a breach of Schedule 6 para 5. The fees are paid within the regular payments. Here are some sums (like their "statement of price" thing) that show how.
Clearly, paying off the amounts stated and ending up with a shortfall would essentially mean that the agreement is in clear breach of the prescribed terms, because essentially:
Schedule 6, (5) Consumer Credit Agreements:
"A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following --
a) number of repayments
b) amount of repayments
c) frequency and timing of repayments
d) dates of repayments
e) the manner in which any of the above may be determined
or in any way, and in any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.
As the creditor CANNOT SHOW HOW THE DEBTOR IS TO DISCHARGE HIS OBLIGATIONS UNDER THE CREDIT AGREEMENT, THE AGREEMENT must be automatically unenforceable.
SEE ALSO:
Form and content of regulated consumer credit agreements
2.
—(1) Subject to paragraphs (2) and (9) below, documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements (other than modifying agreements) shall contain the information set out in Column 2 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations in so far as it relates to the type of agreement referred to in Column 1.
AND:
Please also see below (Taken from OFT Website)
The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations
The Regulations apply to all regulated consumer credit agreements and consumer hire agreements, including modifying agreements.
In particular, the agreement must contain certain financial and other information. This must be set out in a specified order, with sub-headings, and shown together as a whole. The information must be of equal prominence, and easily legible.
In the case of credit agreements, the required information is:
• nature of the agreement
• parties to the agreement
• key financial information (including the amount of credit or the credit limit, the duration of the agreement, the APR, the total amount payable, and the amounts and timing of repayments)
• other financial information (including a description and cash price of goods or services, any advance payments, the total charge for credit, the rate of interest , how and when interest charges are calculated and applied, the order of allocation of payments, and variable rates and charges)
• key Information (including default or other charges, any security provided by the borrower, and prescribed statements of the protection and remedies available to the borrower), and
• a signature box, and other form of consent where applicable.
Both the borrower and the lender must sign the agreement. A copy of the executed agreement must be given to the borrower, either when he signs it or within seven days. A further copy of the unexecuted agreement may also need to be provided. If the agreement is cancellable (because it was signed off trade premises), notice of cancellation rights must be included in the copy agreement, and must also generally be sent by post or email to the borrower within seven days.
If the above requirements are not met, the lender can only enforce the agreement against the borrower by getting a court order. Local authority trading standards services or the OFT can take enforcement action against the lender, using powers in Part 8 of the Enterprise Act 2002.
Is My Welcome Finance Agreement Correct? ??
Indemnity fee - £0.00
Charge £49729.15
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by Et Contra Pacem Regis
