I think it's best if I provide a short time line to the account.

2000 - opened a HSBC CC

Late 2006 - came into financial difficulties and sent an I&E and offer of payment to HSBC. Also, the CRAs show a default on the account in 2006, but I never received a DN.

Jan 2007 - received letter from Payment Services Bureau (trading name of Metropolitan CS) saying they would be handling repayment etc.

Feb 2010 - requested CCA from MCS.

After 12+2 passed, I placed the account into dispute and then, this morning, received a reply from MCS (see pdf below)

Also, I have had a DSAR with HSBC, and they sent the CC info (with statements only back 6 years) and included the following with their covering letter:

"With regards to the credit card agreement this is not held in a structured filing system i.e. in files referenced with your name or account details and is therefore outside the scope of the Data Protection Act 1998. We are satisfied that this procedure meets with the Information Commission's requirements."

------

My question is, can the account stay in dispute with MCS because there is no signed agreement or do I need to begin repayment again?

If it can stay in dispute, what should I write. There is information in the DSAR with regards to assignment and the only letter I received regarding this was from MCS. Also, no DN in the DSAR info.

My main aim here is to settle the account and get the default removed, but I'm sure this will be pretty hard with what I have read in regards to F&Fs with MCS.

MCS reply to HSBC CC CCA.pdf

It is rare that they keep a copy of the DN but there should be a note of it being sent in the SAR.

If they want to take litigation you can bring them to 'Strict Proof' to produce the original signed agreement. This begs the question, if they have the original why don't the produce a copy of it?

Looks like their playing silly beggers now.

Just received the usual urgent communication from MCS - please pay within 7 days or we take legal action. I sent them a letter on the 5th of March (see pdf) in reply to what they supplied for the cca request.

Pretty sure I send them a 'the account is still in dispute, so please produce a signed agreement' letter together with a harassment letter as truecall logged (and told them to 'do one') when they called 15 times this week .

Metropolitan - response to CCA letter.pdf

Cerber,

Just received a response to the letter I sent them (the CPR one you Pm'd me) - see attached pdf. There are a few things in the first few paragraphs of the second page that I'm unsure about.

Any advice would be great.

MCS response to CPR letter.pdf

Ignore them for now, they have admitted once again that they cannot produce the agreement... something they would have to do in a court.

No doubt they'll sell the a/c on to an outside DCA shortly.

Thanks, Cerber. Thought that would be the case.

Guess I'll tell them to go away when that happens too;) (or, until they can find the agreement).

Well, they sent a 'final demand', the maybe's about going to court etc.

Thinking of sending them another copy of my last letter. Worth it or should I just ignore them. What do you think, Cerber?

I'd ignore them personally, they know damn well they have to produce evidence the fools.

lol, think I'll go with that then. Looks like they might be a little lost anyhow - I've just received a response to a letter I sent at the start of April in relation to another account

Hey Cerb,

Received a letter from DG Solicitors this morning (see pdf attached). I'm guessing I reply to them saying that the account is in dispute etc The Consumer Forums ?

letter from DG.pdf

Send DG this;

Dear Sir/Madam,

This is in acknowledgement of your letter dated ................and also of .............The contents of which have been duly noted.

Further to you stressing that County Court proceedings will be actioned by yourselves should I fail to make contact/stressing that proccedings are about to be commenced in regard to alleged sums outstanding and alleged owed by me on the above account, I remind you of Civil procedure rules protocols. Nevertheless in my response to your letter please be advised of the following.

I put forward that you now have a requirement to provide me with;

1) A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. Please note that a "true copy" as defined by the Consumer Credit Act will not be acceptable in this case, and a copy of the actual executed agreement, including signature, is required.

2) All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to

1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, payments and both the amounts of credit and any repayments made to the account.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations

3. Where there has been any event in the account history over this period that has required manual intervention by any person, disclosure of any indication or notes that have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to the account held by me with........... is required.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

I make this request to ensure that each party has equal footings which can allow action to proceed speedily fairly and without undue costs or waste of courts time,as defined within Pre-action Practice Directions -Protocols 4.6 of the Civil Procedures Rules.

I will give you 14 days to respond with the above,failure to comply will result in a complaint being made to the Court./In addition to the FOS for any breaches of OFT and CCA codes.This includes breaches as a result of initiating a Country Court claim where failing to provide or produce documents make litigation improper..

Specifically this relates to one or any number of the following;

* demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* add any further interest or charges to the account.

* pass/sell the account or outstanding balance to any third party.

* register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencies.

* issue a default notice related to the account.

Furthermore,I reserve my right to make a copy of this letter available for inspection to the Court and Financial/Consumer regulators should you fail to comply with this request.

I await your response,and should you need further clarification on any of the above points,then I suggest that you direct them to your legal department.

Yours Faithfully/Sincerely

......................... . (not to be signed) Print name

Dated..........

Thanks, Cerb

So, receive a CC claim form via Northamption bulk claim for this account a few days ago.

(From Marlin Europe/Mortimer Clarke).

Would someone be able to point me in the right direction on how to deal with it?

please post up or type exactly the wording of the P.O.C. with pers details removed. When was the claim issued? What original documents do you youself hold? eg Agreement, Default Notice, Termination Notice or Notice of Assignment?

POC is:

"By an agreement in writing between HSBC Bank plc ("HSBC") & the Defendant dated [date] ("the Agreement")

HSBC agreed to issue the Defendant with a credit card upon the terms & conditions set out therein.

In breach of the Agreement the Defendant failed to make payments of not less than the minimum payment shown on the monthly statement.

HSBC served a Default Notice on the Defendant stating the amount due & requiring the Defendant to pay same.

The Defendant failed to pay & the Agreement was terminated.

The Agreement was assigned to the Claimant on [Feb 2013].

The Claimant has complied with Sections III & IV of Practice Direction

- Pre-Action Conduct.

THE CLAIMANT THEREFORE CLAIMS:

1. [2.7k amount of default debt]

2. Interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984, namely [1.5k] & continuing until Judgement or sooner payment at the rate of 0.61."

Total amount, including fees etc is about £4.5k.

No agreement, well never sent an enforceable one.

No termination notice,

no default notice.

And, not sure if they did send an assignment letter but I will have a look.

CC form is dated 27th,

so I know I have until the 11th to acknowledge and then a further 14 days to submit a defence.

Could you direct me towards up-to-date cpr info?

Pretty sure I need to send that.

letter in the library under legal, you will need to request the agreement, dn, termination notice and notice of assignment all of which they are relying on

CPR 31.14 Request :-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387484-LEGAL-CPR-31.14-Request-Request-for-information-when-a-Claim-has-been-issued.

Section 78 Request :-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387435-CCA-Request-Consumer-Credit-Act-1974

Regards

Andy

An update to this.

sent to CPR stuff back in 2013 and Mortimer Clarke sent me through a copy of the notice of assignment in late December 2013.

I should have then put in my defence, but I didn't. (A few things were going on as well as demands from other creditors [see other threads].)

In Feb 2014 Mortimer Clarke sent a letter with a reconstitued document,

credit card statements, list of payments following termination, and template default letter.

The reconstituted agreement includes the £12 default charge and there is reference to the paperwork being from 2012: not sure how much use this is.

Important poin:

Had a DSAR from HSBC in FEB 2010 that has a note on saying "A/c opened [date]; agreement not found".

There was no agreement included in the DSAR, signed, reconstituted or otherwise.

CCJ was awarded after they sent me the recon stuff in Feb (I think March).

In short, I want to apply for a set aside.

I'm just wanting some help being pointed in the right direction.

I know it's a N244 form, but just wondering if there was a similar case in the past on CAG

(I've spent hours looking through the legal forum but not really go an answer).

My thoughts on why the set aside:

there isn't a signed agreement and payments haven't been paid to the alleged account since early 2010.

I'm pretty sure there is a legal argument to set the judgement aside, as I want to put in a defence.

An update to this.

 

Okay, sent to CPR stuff back in 2013 and Mortimer Clarke sent me through a copy of the notice of assignment in late December 2013. I should have then put in my defence, but I didn't. (A few things were going on as well as demands from other creditors [see other threads].)

 

In Feb 2014 Mortimer Clarke sent a letter with a reconstitued document, credit card statements, list of payments following termination, and template default letter. The reconstituted agreement includes the £12 default charge and there is reference to the paperwork being from 2012: not sure how much use this is.

 

Important poin: Had a DSAR from HSBC in FEB 2010 that has a note on saying "A/c opened [date]; agreement not found". There was no agreement included in the DSAR, signed, reconstituted or otherwise.

 

CCJ was awarded after they sent me the recon stuff in Feb (I think March).

 

In short, I want to apply for a set aside. I'm just wanting some help being pointed in the right direction. I know it's a N244 form, but just wondering if there was a similar case in the past on CAG (I've spent hours looking through the legal forum but not really go an answer).

My thoughts on why the set aside: there isn't a signed agreement and payments haven't been paid to the alleged account since early 2010. I'm pretty sure there is a legal argument to set the judgement aside, as I want to put in a defence.

Hi,

How was the CCJ awarded? Was it at a hearing? If so you will need to appeal and not set aside.

It was awarded in default at Northampton.

How did that happen?

Did you not file a Defence?!

No, I didn't file a defence at the time. I actually thought I had, but turns out I didn't.

Responding to your RP zingy.

So what happened?...you acknowledged service and then had another 14 days to submit your defence...why did you not submit one?

"I actually thought I had, but turns out I didn't."

Regards

Andy

No, I didn't file a defence at the time. I actually thought I had, but turns out I didn't.

Not sure that's a good enough reason to set aside the judgment.

What is the date of the CCJ?

I had a few things going on at the time, including sorting out my father's estate. Plus, I was confused about the extended time etc (Mortimer took ages to get the reconstituted agreement etc).

The CCJ shows as late Feb 2014.

If there's a legal argument for defence, shouldn't I be allowed to get the judgement set aside to put in that defence?