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Help Cout date and CCJ with charging order!!!


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Hello everybody and thanks for listening

 

here is a brief outline of my unfortunate circumstances.

 

I have about £100k in unsecured debt

 

I pay a Debt management company a small amount to all my lenders.

I have tried using different 'card clearing companies' to have a go at these debts,

but nothing seems to be happening.

 

Last year I received a court order from Incasso (Royal Bank of Scotlands solicitors)

and due to my ignorance of the legal system, I was issued with a default CCJ.

 

Nothing has happened until recently,

when I was issued with an Interim Charging order to get the loan attached to my house.

 

My house is arguably worth the same as the mortgage,

however, the more I read and understand this, the more I know that my debt to RBS does not exist.

 

I was informed by a solicitor to apply for the judgement to be set aside on the grounds that I am making payments,

however, they have made the hearing a joint one at the same time as the Interim Charging order.

 

I wrote to RBS stating 6 months ago, the following:

 

"

I would be happy to pay any financial obligation I might lawfully owe as soon as I receive these three documents.

 

1. Validation of the debt (actual accounting)

2. Verification of your claim against me (sworn affidavit or even a signed invoice)

3. A copy of the contract binding both parties"

 

I have not had anything back from them and have asked them once again for the above documents.

 

The trouble is, I have to go to court on the 1st March and my time is now rapidly running out.

 

I have written to the solicitors, of RBS (Incasso) stating that;

"I will not speak with third parties as I have been informed that they have no legal standing in this matter. "

 

Now I have a court date.

I want to challenge all my loans, but this court hearing has me rather frightened.

What should I do and what are my optionbs at this very short time?

 

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

 

Kindest Regards

 

Hello everybody and thanks for listening

here is a brief outline of my unfortunate circumstances.

 

I have about £100,000 in unsecured debt and pay a Debt management company a small amount to all my lenders.

I have tried using different 'card clearing companies' to have a go at these debts, but nothing seems to be happening.

 

Last year I received a court order from Incasso (Royal Bank of Scotlands solicitors) and due to my ignorance of the legal system, I was issued with a default CCJ.

 

Nothing has happened until recently, when I was issued with an Interim Charging order to get the loan attached to my house.

My house is arguably worth the same as the mortgage, however, the more I read and understand this, the more I know that my debt to RBS does not exist.

 

I was informed by a solicitor to apply for the judgement to be set aside on the grounds that I am making payments, however, they have made the hearing a joint one at the same time as the Interim Charging order. I wrote to RBS stating 6 months ago, the following:

 

I would be happy to pay any financial obligation I might lawfully owe as soon as I receive these three documents.

 

1. Validation of the debt (actual accounting)

2. Verification of your claim against me (sworn affidavit or even a signed invoice)

3. A copy of the contract binding both parties"

 

I have not had anything back from them and have asked them once again for the above documents.

The trouble is, I have to go to court on the 1st March and my time is now rapidly running out.

 

I have written to the solicitors, of RBS (Incasso) stating that;

"I will not speak with third parties as I have been informed that they have no legal standing in this matter. "

 

Now I have a court date.

I want to challenge all my loans, but this court hearing has me rather frightened.

What should I do and what are my options at this very short time?

 

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

 

Kindest Regards

 

Ladies and Gentlemen

 

I have to go to court in March as RBS are attempting to charge my property with an order and secure the debt.......

 

Apologies as I am a newbie here but have been reading about Default notices etc., Both me and my partner have a Default Notice with the following dates:

 

DN Date: Wednesday 07/01/2009

Date required to pay bank : Monday 26/01/2009

 

I would appreciate an expert opinion as to whether I can challenge this........Court scares me and I just want to avoid the charging order.

 

Many Thanks to one and all.

 

Kindest Regards

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hi steve

 

if you dont have a photobucket acount use link below.

 

Register for free at Photobucket.com

 

scan your docs (remove personal details) post them onto your thread (copy and paste the IMG CODE), then we can physically see what we are dealing with.

 

i dont know anything about charging orders and i can't advise on them, but thier are peeps on here that can do it in thier sleep.

 

cab

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It's one day short. A court assumes that a DN is posted second class and takes four working days to be served unless the creditor can prove it was sent 1st class.

 

You could not have received it before the following Tues 13th. Then you have a statutary 14 days to remedy = 27th

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i agree with cerberusalert.

 

i was thinking more on the lines of your first post that says,

 

I have to go to court in March as RBS are attempting to charge my property with an order and secure the debt.......

 

what court?

have you aknowledged?

poc's and all the other relevent bits that come with court action.

 

cab

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Thanks to everyone for getting back to me so soon. Here are my circumstances;

 

I received the CCJ form and whilst trying to get through the red tape and understand what it was all about, a Default judgement was made in my absence in court. That was ignorance and a lack of education on my behalf. I have now received from Incasso (Debt Collecting Solicitors) an interim Charging Order and 'Charging Order Application + Official Copies from HM Land Registry"

 

After falling behind on a couple of payments due to poor financial circumstances, I went onto a Debt Management Scheme and I still make reduced payments through my Debt Management scheme.

I have drafted a letter to the judge outlining my wiliingness to pay what I lawfully owe subject to RBS providing me with the following information, stated in a letter dated 160609 to RBS;

 

"I would be happy to pay any financial obligation I might lawfully owe as soon as I receive these three documents.

 

1. Validation of the debt (actual accounting)

2. Verification of your claim against me (sworn affidavit or even a signed invoice)

3. A copy of the contract binding both parties

 

I have received no reply from RBS and I have resent them the same

letter to which I have issued a date to reply before the court date

which is in 2 weeks...... I also outlined that the original debt was for

15 years and that all I ask for is to be granted time to pay. I have

other unsecured debts to a tune of £100k and my mortgage is the

same value as my house....if they put a charging order onto it, it will

force me into negative equity.

 

And so here I am...panicking that I don't know what to do and they

are going to walk all over me. I have no income as such, nor assets

but I am getting by with loans from friends. This is my first awareness

of this forum and as much as I am reading, I would really appreciate

the help of a professional so I can lawfully state the truth in court so

as to help myself.

 

What should I do? As ever, any opinions are greatly appreciated!!!

 

It's one day short. A court assumes that a DN is posted second class and takes four working days to be served unless the creditor can prove it was sent 1st class.

 

You could not have received it before the following Tues 13th. Then you have a statutary 14 days to remedy = 27th

 

Hi Cerberusalert and thanks for deciphering the dates for me! What does this actually mean, and can I use this as a part of my defense to requst a stay of judgement and begin proceedings against RBS? Apologies, I am just getting around the site now and trying to find a defense for me and my family.

 

Many Many Thanks

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(Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983, a failure of a Default Notice or Termination Notice to be accurate not only invalidates such notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd V Swain & Co NLD 14 July 1998 but it is an unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt (Wilson V First County Trust Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, Wilson V Robertsons (London) Ltd [2006] EWCA Civ 1088, Wilson V Pawnbrokers [2005] EWCA Civ 147) - but would also give the claimant a claim for damages in the sum of £1000 (Kpophraror V Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119).

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:eek:If I read that correctly......then according to (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983, just according to the dates....the agreement is unenforceable??!!!

 

I have attached copies of the DN's. Before I go and write to the court, can anybody here tell me whether my DN's are inaccurate in other areas? I read somewhere in here, that the DN's can only claim the amount of arrears and not the whole amount owed......like it appears to state on my Dn's.

 

:roll:If this is the case, then my joint date in court to have the judgement set aside and to have the charging order applied, I will be able to state that I dispute the debt (which means they cannot apply the charging order) on the grounds that the agreement is an unlawful recission of contract etc., etc.,

 

It means that I have hope and they cannot steamroller over me.

 

I am an honest man and only wish to tell the truth as to my circumstances.

 

Thank you so muc everyone for all your efforts.

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Hi there,

 

 

Firstly, you will need to apply for a set aside of the CCJ.

 

Have a read of the links below on how this is done -

 

Setting Aside a CCJ -

 

A Guide To Setting Aside CCJ's You Never Received

CCJ removal inc. step by step guide

Applying for a Set-aside

Spamalot - CCJ and interest on debt. ***WON***

Setting aside the original CCJ of your CCA

 

I'd also advise that you send of a Subject Access Request letter (no.11) to RBS using the template letter in the link below -

 

The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors

 

Make sure you send this one by at least Recorded Delivery. This may produce the original agreement.

 

I'd also look the links below on Charging Orders and how to oppose them -

 

Have a look at the links below on Charging Orders and what grounds you may oppose them -

 

Insolvency Helpline

National Debtline

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/203298-guide-charging-orders-orders.html

and this gem of a post ( Courtesy of FunkyFox ) -

 

FunkyFox post

 

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Hi there

 

I have spoken to a couple of solicitors today and cited the 'Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices' Information etc., and they didn't know about it..........:eek: ! wanted to take in my Default Notices and let them survey them for faults. I believe that there is certainly one fault in that the dates are wrong. if there are any others I would ilke them confirmed. Can anybody here see whether there are further discrepancies, i.e. i think that the lender is trying to enforce the full amount and not the arrears?

 

I just want a real basis to set this judgement aside and to get the loan into recission....and a £1000 damages would go a long way right now. If I can stop the charging order then great.

 

Thanks again everyone for really great help and advice. I am not beaten yet!!

 

Hello everyone

 

Are the banks allowed to keep adding interest after they have issued the Default Notice? Also there is a discrepancy in the Outstanding Arrears from the Default Notice and a further Notice given 20 days later.......they are asking for twice the arrears. From the Default Notice above, the arrears are set at £1069.66. On this Deafult dated 20 days later, they are asking for £2226.90? Can they just add interest and double the arrears? i think there is a discrepancy. I just want a solid defense before I go in to set aside the CCJ.

 

All help is appreciated!:)

 

RBSDefault2701090mod.jpg

 

"14. Furthermore, the Arrears Total outlined cannot be accurate, as the Balance on the Account was at least partly comprised of Unlawful Charges plus additional Charges and interestlink3.gif added unlawfully whilst the Account was in Dispute. Therefore, the Arrears claimed cannot be accurate, as they are themselves calculated using a Total that was itself inaccurate.

 

15. This is at all times an Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. There is no provision in the Act that allows a large financial institution to terminate an Agreement that is in alleged default or breach simply by giving notice to the Consumer. Section 98(6) makes that quite clear. The Creditor must follow the steps outlined in Section 87 and Section 88 if they are to lawfully Default and Terminate, and enjoy the benefits of Section 87."

 

As far as I am aware, I have not received a Termination Notice for the agreement. However, the Interest added does seem to be incorrect as seen in the previous post. The Default Notice is invalid, however, I would ilke to see if there are any other issues with it so I can file a stronger defense.

 

Any ideas anybody?

 

Many Many Thanks

 

Bump!!

 

I am now writing my defence for court, can anybody help with my issue of the misleading arrears claims?

 

Many Thanks

 

Hello Ladies and Gents

 

Just to let you know, I have sent a number of letters to the Solicitor Incasso (DCA) representing RBS to whom I was supposed to go to court on Monday 1st March, stating that they had no legal bearing in my case and that I can do them for harassment.......

Bear in mind that today is Thurday 24th..... I received a letter today from a different Solicitor requesting 'a notice of change of solicitor' and asking both me and the court for a further 14 days so they can obtain a copy of the loan agreement. Obviously, the last letter frightened the pants off Incasso.......

 

At this time, I am not sure what I should do? Should I agree and give the 'New' Solicitor 14 days so they can get a copy of the loan agreement, or can I use this obvious delaying tactic to my advantage in court and still go for the set-aside citing that the Default Notice is invalid due to dates etc.,

 

As ever, all help and advice is greatly appreciated.

This stuff really works eh?!

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Hi Supasnooper (Brilliant avatar name by the way)

 

I have applied to the court to Set aside the judgement, which was initially applied due to my failure to go to court.......(ignorance and losing my job at the time I'm afraid). My initial grounds to set aside were rather poor, however, I am now going down the route of getting it set aside as I dispute the loan on the grounds of a Faulty DN and that RBS just blatantly keep avoiding my letters and requests for information. There is also the issue of some misleading Arrears, as seen in my posts above. If there are any other arguments in my favour of the Faulty Default Notices I would like them so I can give a 'Stronger' argument.

 

As I understand it, if the CCJ is set aside, then the whole process goes back to the beginning.......though, since the court appearance was initiated by Incasso and the application for the charging order was made by them.......since they are no longer representing RBS......can this stand?

 

Thanks again for all your help here.

(p.s. donations on there way):grin::grin:

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You'll need to strengthen your case for the Set Aside - was there a particular reason that caused you missing the Court hearing such as a Job interview, hospital appointment, etc...

 

The defective DN may catch the Judges eye if he's clued up but you need to see if the original agreement is unenforceable as well...........the more points, the better.

 

Have look at this thread for a better understanding of defective DN's -

 

B_R_W's post on DN's

 

Have you sent off the SAR ?

If not, get it off ASAP as they have up to 40 days to return the required info.

 

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Many Thanks for the prompt reply!!

 

At the end of May I lost my contract in the Automotive Industry, and was working overtime trying to secure another job. The court proceedings were issued at the beginning of June............:mad: That was a bit of a bad time for me. I sent a letter to RBS asking for information (I have a copy of that letter), on 190609 but they did not respond at all, and a Default CCJ was issued as I did not turn up for the hearing. I can prove I lost my job at the end of May, I have a letter from my former Engineering Manager.

 

I take your points about the more information the better. I will look into the links you sent me. I am assuming I will have to turn up to court still even though the new solicitors have asked for it to be adjourned. Also, since it was Incasso that went for the charging order.........can they go ahead and still try for it...?...even though it was Incasso who initially applied for it and not RBS?

 

Many Thanks for really great help and advice here.:)

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Ring the court to check the adjournment, if they have applied and it's been granted then you won't need to turn up on the date that has been adjourned .............. and it gives you a little more time to get together what you need.

 

Although you may have written to RBS asking for info.......RBS are not obliged to respond unless your letter was sent suitably headed as a legal request such as Civil Procedure Rules request (CPR) , Subject Access Request (SAR) etc..

 

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also missing prescribed text!!

 

Hello Diddydicky!

 

Can you help point out what the missing prescribed text is please?:eek: That would help! I have a link I have found on CAG and am reading through it all.....heavy going:(

 

I understand I need to know what it is about but if you can isolate what is missing I can study that and get it going.

 

Many Many Thanks once again

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this noticed should include a copy of the current Office Of Fair Trading information sheet on default. This contains important information about your rights and where to go for support and advice. If it is not included, you should contact us to get one.

 

 

(i take it one was not included and as this text was not included either , you could hardly know that you should contact them to get one!

 

the prescribed text quite clearly states that this is "important" information so it would be an interesting proposition for a judge to attempt to rule it's omission as "de minimus"

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Hi everyone

1. I was hoping that somebody could let me know if my Credit Agreement was legal and enforceable? Please see below.

 

2. Also, my claim company sent off an SAR on the 25th September. RBS replied asking for confirmation of Identity. I went to the Bank with my wife and confirmed our identities with our passports on 25th of November. 40 Calendar days after that is the 5th of january 2010. They had not responded to My claims company by that date. On 26th january 2010 Incasso served upon me an Interim Charging order and charging order application. Where do I stand with this situation?

RBSLoanagreement1.jpg

 

RBSLoanagreement2.jpg

 

RBSLoanagreement3.jpg

 

Bump!

 

Hi I was hoping to get an opinion on this. RBS have not supplied an SAR within the 40days period of asking. I have to go to court soon. How does there lack of information add strength to my case for a defence? As mentioned previously, I have an issue with my Default Notice......and there were no Prescribed Terms with it as well. Since my claims company have requested an SAR but they have not produced it.......where does that leave them?

 

Many Many Thanks

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This looks enforceable to me.

 

As part of the pre court protocols, they would have to disclose the documents, they will be using in court. Have you received these?

 

If they issued a DN without the necessary prescribed terms, I would have thought they would not be going to court.

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi everyone and thanks for your help. You guys and gals have already identified a date issue with my DN in the post here as well as the lack of 'Prescribed Terms':

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/247688-default-notices-court-dates.html

 

To cut a long story short, Incasso jacked the case in after some nice letters from moi;).........and with only 2 days before the court case. The new sols asked for 14days adjournment to get the Credit agreement from RBS. They got 17days as a new date has been set this month. In the copy above, there is no signature page. I got this when I took out the loan initially. I also asked Monster Claims to investgate the loan and it transpires that RBS have had them tied up in knots. They did not, however, return the SAR after 40days, and they issued proceedings after the SAR had been issued to them. I have a chance to defend my CCJ before they decide whether or not to apply the charging order.

 

Many Thanks to one and all.

 

Hi unclebulgaria67

 

that copy of the agreement was given to me at the time I signed for the loan. They have not sent me a copy of the loan agreement.

 

Regarding the invalid Default Notice, I have not made this a point to either the new solicitor or the bank.......should I? Do the Prescribed terms come as a separate set of papers in the same envelope, or are they stipulated on the Default Notice themselves? Should I send a letter to the new solicitors, stating that an SAR was requested on 29th September.....and that as it has not been responded to......the matter is further in dispute? As I understand, the lender is allowed NO Latitude whatosoever in this request......yet despite this, Incasso applied for a court appearance and dropped out at the last minute?????...........Is there any standard type of letter available on the site to help cover this? If I am now in dispute over the loan.....were the DCA wrong to issue court proceedings?

 

Many Thanks for all your help

Regards

 

This looks enforceable to me.

 

As part of the pre court protocols, they would have to disclose the documents, they will be using in court. Have you received these?

 

If they issued a DN without the necessary prescribed terms, I would have thought they would not be going to court.

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As far I understand it the default notice has to contain the info in bold below. They should not be looking to take this to court, unless a notice was issued correctly. In regard to what you should do about this, this is where I am a bit stuck. Do you let them try to take this to court and realise they have made a mistake. Can you gain advantage from this? Perhaps someone more experienced can advise on this. Consult your solicitor.

 

Accurate details of default

 

Action necessary to remedy the breach and the date by which this should be done ( this will be 7 or 14 days depending on when agreement taken out )

 

Info about not remedying the default & what will happen as a result ie court action

 

If breach can't be remedied what compensation is required 7 when this should be paid by

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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Hello again.

 

Regarding my SAR, RBS have responded saying that they have no record of my confirmation of identity in their branch (I went into the bank with my wife on the 25th Nov 2009) and they have date the letter 2nd April 2010. IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THESE PEOPLE CAN TRAVEL IN THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!! ARE THE TERMINATORS UPON US????:eek: They are well outside of the 40days allowed, and are clearly stalling for something.........maybe to see the loan charged against my property?

 

Since they are completely off their heads and time travelling, what can I do about this? Is there a Standard Bank Template I can hit them with? Will I inform their solicitors that the loan is in serious default now and they cannot go ahead with the charging order?

 

Regards!

 

A little BUMP here. It is 23 weeks to the day that the first SAR was requested, and RBS have not produced. What should I do? I have to go to court on 17th to defend a charging order. Since now RBS are in DEFAULT of the 40 days, can I stop them going to court.....or can I use this to defend it?

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