Thread: Welcome HP Agreements - need to check some facts

Hi All,

During September 2009 myself and my wife experienced significant financial issues, and we negotiated with our WFS account manager to make half payments on our 2 HP agreements we were promised verbally that providing we kept to our new payments no further action would be taken, and we kept our word and paid as promised at the end of every month.

On the 26th January 2010 my wife recieved a phone call from a diffrent account manager at the branch, and asked her "If her car would be at your home address from the 3rd Feb" my wife asked Why? and he said it was due to the default notices that had been issued. My wife tried to explain that we had recieved no such notices and the account manager then went on to claim that I as her husband had obviously opened the post and hidden it!! When my wife phoned me in tears after the call to welcome we immediatley went to visit the person who phoned us at our local welcome branch.

When we arrived at the Branch we were handed a photocopy of a default notice for both of our accounts. These copies were of a poor quality and barely readable.

On the 4th Feb we both recieved a new letter from WFS titled "without prejudice" In which it states that our hire purchase accounts have been terminated and the full balance is now payable.

Now I have spent hours researching this and it is my belief that WFS have recinded our contracts but I would like to be 100% sure so I would be grateful if someone could go through the points below and tell me if I am right! Many Thanks.

1. Default notices not recieved in the post for either account.

2. Photocopies of default notice are of a poor quality with the prescribed "IMPORTANT - YOU SHOULD READ THIS CAREFULLY" partially obscured by the WFS logo.

3. The default states "To remedy the breach you must pay to us the total arrears of xxx.xx within fourteen (14) days" as I understand it this should be a valid date as opose to a time period?

4. Warnings about action required are all upper case with the words "BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN" , "DO NOT" , "BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN" underlined however I think I read on a previous thread those words should be underlined and bolded?

5. We were paying reduced payments to welcome since September 2009 and I spoke to our account manager at the end of every month and he did not once warn us that paying reduced ammounts would make our accounts subject to a default notice.

So can anyone else confirm for me my belief that welcome have unlawfully recinded our contracts.

subbing to this thread for info as I too have a 'without prejudice' termination which im taking to solicitor in the morning.

It is my understanding (dont rely on this alone as im learning as I go along)

that a default notice must have a numerical date not '14 days'
that a default notice must be received
also without prejudice means it cannot be used in court without agreement from both parties

Have you paid more than 1/3 of the agreement?

I dont know if you have read already but maybe have a read of this thread from page 38 onwards...

Invalid Default Notices - The Consumer Forums

If I get any useful info from solicitor tomorrow ill be sure to post it. Hope someone with more knowledge is along soon

also if you have it blank out your personal details and post a copy of your agreement here to see if there are any problems you could rock the boat with so to speak

beyondhope - It it such a relief to find someone else in the same boat! I dont know if you have been following the whole wfs/cattles saga but in summary they are attempting to claw back every penny as fast as they can by whatever method they like.

With regards to scanned copies I will try and do that later. I am also in the process of sending a SAR request which I have done before and recieved absolutley nothing.

With regards to the 1/3 payment my agreement is ok on this point, and I was advised by the acc mgr that Welcome 'Probably wouldnt bother to take me to court to get my car back" my wifes agreement is about 1k short of the 1/3.

As I understand it as welcome have stated our agreements have been terminated they are in breach as they have not given the debtor every op to resolve the issue, and also I don't believe they can now issue a 2nd default notice on an account that is now terminated?

Originally Posted by ozzywizard

Beyond, no need your advise is spot on and brill

Thanks Ozzy

Originally Posted by deales82

beyondhope - It it such a relief to find someone else in the same boat! I dont know if you have been following the whole wfs/cattles saga but in summary they are attempting to claw back every penny as fast as they can by whatever method they like.

I most certainly have been following the demise of these 'wonderful' people this is my thread if you would like a read seens as we have similar problems:
Help with Welcome Finance - Page 11 - The Consumer Forums


With regards to scanned copies I will try and do that later. I am also in the process of sending a SAR request which I have done before and recieved absolutley nothing.

If SAR hasnt been met then the account can be placed into dispute

With regards to the 1/3 payment my agreement is ok on this point, and I was advised by the acc mgr that Welcome 'Probably wouldnt bother to take me to court to get my car back" my wifes agreement is about 1k short of the 1/3.

Isnt that reassuring of the manager probably really isnt good enough if you feel like you are looking over your shoulder it is! Have you put in CCA and SAR requests for your wifes also?

As I understand it as welcome have stated our agreements have been terminated they are in breach as they have not given the debtor every op to resolve the issue, and also I don't believe they can now issue a 2nd default notice on an account that is now terminated?

It certainly seems like unlawful recission to me but im not very clued up on that subject as yet but there is alot on the invalid default thread I posted regarding unlawful recission

Thanks for that Ozzy I may have to bear that in mind I have an incomplete SAR on one account

also

a letter before action may help as it will show you have exhausted all avenues for a amicable remedy and show welcome for what they are

essexboy

I look forward to hearing from you beyondhope after your solicitor visit, fingers crossed it is good news and WFS are in the wrong. Thanks for everyones help so far.

This is what I intend to send to welcome, your comments and feedback is appreciated:

Dear Sir / Madam,

I write with reference to the letter received from Welcome Financial Services received on the 5th February 2010. As you have neglected to give the letter a reference number I have enclosed a copy for your reference.

I have not received a valid “Default Notice” for my account therefore I am writing to inform you that you have unlawfully rescinded my Hire Purchase Account by cancelling it and therefore not giving me my legal right as the debtor to make payment.

I must also inform you that WFS may not issue a second default notice in the prescribed form post-termination of my agreement. Any such second notice requires as prescribed a termination date on it, as you have already stated that my account has been terminated this date would be fictitious therefore immediately rendering the notice as unlawful and unenforceable.

Finally please note any attempt by WFS or associated agents to visit my private property will be treated as trespass and the police will be notified immediately and legal action will be taken against WFS.

WFS have 14 days to reply, failure to do so will result in further action from me, including but not limited to formal complaints to the Office Of Fair Trading with reference to the gross breaches of consumer credit laws and I reserve the right to take court action against you.

I look forward to hearing from you soon, if there is anything in the contents of this letter that you do not understand I suggest you consult with a legal representative.

yes

i second that good luck beyondhelp, let me know if i can help in any way

essexboy

hi deales82

looks like you have done your research, but i would lose the last paragraph, seems petty.

let them look the muppets, stick to the facts and argue your case

essexboy

I copied that line from another example guess it is a little cheeky

I also have default notices that say 'within 14 days' as opposed to a date. At first it asks for the arrears to be paid within 14 days then goes on to a section headed Further Action. Under this it basically threatens that if we don't pay within 14 days they can reposses the car etc etc and gives a figure to pay them if we want to end the agreement. Is this a false DN - there is no without prejudice on it. They have also put a default on hubby's credit file with experian. What do we do now ?

Originally Posted by essexboy

yes

i second that good luck beyondhelp, let me know if i can help in any way

essexboy

Thank you essexboy as its an initial meeting im just compiling a list of what I want them to focus on because we only have 20mins Ill post the list on my thread for comments in a little while. Im going to take the little nugget you gave me and say why dont I have one of these in my SAR ;-) I will keep you all informed anyway

ozzywizard - thank you so much for the improvements you have added to my letter.

Do you think I need to mention why the default notice is invalid?