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March last year, I submit a request to BARCLAYCARD for my credit agreement AND signature under the CCA as advised on this site.
12 Days later, no documents
Sent second letter stating they had 12 further days until it becomes unenforceable at law and the account is now in dispute.
12 days later, no documents
Sent letter that it's now unenforceable at law, was contacted by Mercers debt collections and said the same to them, they said they were due to send the documents out.
I receive a BLANK copy of the credit agreement through the post, they ask me to sign and return it.
um....no?
Called them, asked them why they thought I was an idiot asking me to sign a blank agreement and said I still request the documents, they argue the CCA says they only need to provide me terms and conditions and not the signature, I argue the CCA says otherwise, they say they will send out my signature.
I never hear from them again. (from April 2009)
Until today (February 6th 2010) when my father called me, the debt (after an entire year) has been passed from barclaycard to mercers, mercers to Calder Financial who are now chasing me for the full balance (1460.99), I explained the story to them, advised of CCA, they state they were under no obligation to provide my signature as I actually need to submit a different form (access request or something?). I argued to the contrary, stating that barclaycard are simply stalling for time and pressuring me to pay a debt that I don't feel i legally owe them. They also argued that paying onto the card at any stage during it's life is immediate proof of the debt owing (which is absolute crap).
As advised on this site, I kept receipts of the letters I sent to them but stupidly I have put them somewhere and completely forgotten where I put them (Doh!).
Would love to know where I stand.
If this gets ugly, I have the fortunate luck of working for Payplan (a very good and 100% free independent debt advice agency) so I can set up an employee account and shoo them away that way. If any of you are struggling and fancy giving Payplan a call the number is 0800716239. Give them a shot, I know you may think i'm preaching a bit if you call hopefully you will see how good they are for yourselves.
Anyway, with my shameless advertising over, I need to know where I stand at this, currently I have the department address so send a Subject access request to, as well as Calder financial's address but before I send anything was wondering what your take is on the situation? I have yet to speak to anyone where I work about this, seeing as this site helped me a lot I figured I would come here first.
Should probably add this on the end tbh : my view in no way reflects the views of Payplan, it's affiliates, pets, uncles first cousin's etc etc etc, you get the picture.
7. Thinking of a Full & Final Settlement?Read Here
my views are my own...seek legal advice if ness
NEVER EVER - act on a private message asking you to visit another website, make contact 'off list' or by telephone
- alert the siteteam IMMEDIATELY by hitting the black warning triangle on any message - Particularly if this results in a request to pay a fee to help you.
rather than hittting to be my friend - hit the star
nothing urgent or unusual about this action by BC
thats their std response to a CCA request.
you of all people should know this.
and you of all people should no how to deal with it.
IGNORE!
dx
Your saying to ignore what they are claiming?
My reasoning for asking was my uncertainty about the Subject access request, if they were entitled to send me ALL my details under the CCA then they havent a leg to stand on, otherwise I may have to re-request the info at my cost and give them more time to find any documents on me.
Also, I know exactly how to deal with this, IF they are within the law, if they arent then I wont be setting up an account with Payplan as i'll be admitting the debt is owing.
7. Thinking of a Full & Final Settlement?Read Here
my views are my own...seek legal advice if ness
NEVER EVER - act on a private message asking you to visit another website, make contact 'off list' or by telephone
- alert the siteteam IMMEDIATELY by hitting the black warning triangle on any message - Particularly if this results in a request to pay a fee to help you.
rather than hittting to be my friend - hit the star
7. Thinking of a Full & Final Settlement?Read Here
my views are my own...seek legal advice if ness
NEVER EVER - act on a private message asking you to visit another website, make contact 'off list' or by telephone
- alert the siteteam IMMEDIATELY by hitting the black warning triangle on any message - Particularly if this results in a request to pay a fee to help you.
rather than hittting to be my friend - hit the star
Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.
If you don't have all your old statements going back 6 years, send BC a SAR so you can reclaim all penalty charges on the a/c.
Get reading and learn loads !!
Hi slick!
Thanks for the welcome, just need to ask you another few question if I may
Having read several of the posts in this forum, and specifically the thread you kindly linked to me, it's my view that BC may have punched a hole in my argument as under the CCA they can provide me with a copy of the T&C without my signature (and not my original agreement, despite me clearly saying a TRUE, SIGNED copy in my original letter), my questions therefore are these:
1) I'm thinking of putting in a request to the OFT to persue it on my behalf, however i'm thinking it may be fruitless unless I first initiate a Subject access request from the relevant department for which I have an address, would you reccomend sending the SAR before contacting OFT?
2) My second problem is, stupidly I have misplaced the receipts for the request letters I sent last year, i'm hoping theres some legislation that requires barclaycard to keep accurate records of all correspondence received and sent to a debtor, and I can use this to prove I sent the requests to them, even if they claim I never sent them they WILL have a record of sending me the T&C's in response to the letter, therefore proving I requested them in the first place.
3) I can't send Calder a token payment to show I am not simply refusing to deal with the debt as I originally disputed it and in my eyes it remains disputed to this day, therefore any token payments I make immediately validate their claims as proof I owe a debt to them, in the meantime I assume they will be continuing to throw interest and charges onto the debt and will eventually move it forward if they receive no response from me, perhaps a letter stating my intent to include the OFT in my dispute may hold them off?.
4) because im absolutely naff at finding the relevant threads, I was wondering if you can point me to a template letter to recover all penalty charges from my barclaycard so I have it ready to roll after my SAR comes through :P
so in conclusion, i'm thinking this:
1: SAR Barclaycard and simultaniously let Calder know of my intentions to include the OFT upon receipt of the SAR.
2: get the SAR, letter to OFT (stating the regulations of records as iv'e lost my receipts so BC can't argue I need proof i sent the requests and letters). Send letter to BC regarding the penalty charges.
3: See what happens next!
As I said in my previous post, I work for a debt management company but only since september last year, I have just been fully trained and could just ask my manager for help but the last thing I want to do having just got the job is pester them with my problems , on top of this we have a legal team to help our customers free of charge so in my department we arent always told about the legality of things, we just make a complete note of whats going on and the customers concerns and pass it to the correct team who help the customer from then onwards, which is why im seeking help from this forum
Thanks for all your help, and sorry to keep asking questions, the last thing I want is for this to drag out and I suddenly get hit by a CCJ and being unable to stop it...I hate CCJ's........and Baliffs :P
1. You have to decide what you want to achieve in this - eg. are you happy to just reclaim all penalty charges or do you want to try and dispute the debt itself.
2. If you DO want to dispute the debt, it is a lengthy process and Mercers, Calders and BC will ignore your views and continue to demand payments. As they have complied with your CCA request, they are allowed to do this.
3. You need to write to BC and confirm that you consider the a/c to be in dispute. Use an "A/c in Dispute " letter from another thread. When they continue to refuse to suplly the agreement, you can then complain to the fos (not the OFT) to see if they can get the agreement sent to you. When you get they agreement, we can see if looks enforceable or not.
4. If you don't have all your statements, send BC a SAR to the Northants address on your statement. Read the Reclaiming Charges guide at Link No1 in my signature.
Also see the interest Tutorial at Link No6 and decide if you want to claim higher (contractual) interest on the charges. Harder job but good rewards !
Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.
Just been contacted at work by "CM Finance?", the guy was blatantly reading a script and said he was calling for full immediate payment of the balance, told him he's having a laugh and theres no way i'm paying for a debt where there's no proof of owing, he said i'm sueable for the debt and it's now to pre-court stage and they can get baliffs involved.
Told him he's talking crap as it's an unsecured debt and they would need a court order to involve baliffs, he folded and stuttered.
Asked me where I got my information from, told him I work for Payplan and not to spin me any of his threats, he quickly moved onto an early settlement figure, I again told him i'm not paying a debt I feel I do not owe, he said he wont be able to hold the account unless I make a token payment of £30.
Told him the law states it can be £1, he disagreed, I told him to check the textbook he's reading from, he got angry :P
Anyways, I said i'm not moving on this until my SAR comes through, he said BC wont respond to it as it isn't theirs anymore, I told him a SAR can be relevant for any information held on me with them at any stage, regardless of who the debt has been passed to, he's sending a letter to my home address I can reply to when I get my SAR through.
I think I ****ed him off a bit.
Anyways, any thoughts on this? more smoke and mirrors or am I supposed to be SAR'ing CM Finance instead of BC.
Still havent received the SAR yet but i'll either be disputing the debt further or claiming back a mountain of charges and wiping the debt off anyways.
Fight the power.
EDIT: Could have been CSL finance (who have been mentioned in other threads), they were calling me at 8:45AM whilst at work so I couldn't really be bothered to listen to their crap.
7. Thinking of a Full & Final Settlement?Read Here
my views are my own...seek legal advice if ness
NEVER EVER - act on a private message asking you to visit another website, make contact 'off list' or by telephone
- alert the siteteam IMMEDIATELY by hitting the black warning triangle on any message - Particularly if this results in a request to pay a fee to help you.
rather than hittting to be my friend - hit the star
Glad you had fun with him. You could have mentioned that calling you whilst at work is a clear breach of the OFT debt collection Guidelines 2.6(a) and 2.6(j). Check out the OFT DCG's at Link No3 in my sig're below.
Wait for the a response to the SAR which you correctly sent to BC. CSL, Mercers, and Calders are just BC's Collection Monkeys and can mostly be ignored and told, politely, to go away.
Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.
Just got another phonecall from my dad, Barclaycard have now used right to offset on me.
Took £98 out of my current account and sent me an extremely snotty letter boasting about how it's their legal right to do so.
Firstly, this will not go unpunished
Secondly, iv'e had to pay my next wage packet into a different account to dodge the issue.
Thirdly, if it's true that they have indeed "sold the debt on" as they have told me several times in the past, then barclaycard are now technically stealing money from me, if the debt does not belong to them anymore then they have no right to take money in payment for it.
My other issue is the Subject access request, sent it off middle of last week and still no reply, i'm guessing they need about 14 days to respond?
In the meantime, I may send a rather demanding letter to BC telling them to refund the money they took for a debt they claim has been sold to a different company, or all manner of legal nasties will be unleashed upon them.
I thought it was strange I seemed to have less money in my account the other day, I just thought a bill had come out late....
a sort of fire-fighting role here. Hate HFC & their past compulsory PPI ethos
Posts
24,981
Re: Urgent Advice Needed
....40 calendar days for SAR.
if you have no written notice or notice of assignment from the 'buyer', then they can offset, no matter what they have said over the phone.
dx
GETTING THREAT_O_TEXTS OR SPOOF BAILIFF CALL FROM M T COLLECT read here
7. Thinking of a Full & Final Settlement?Read Here
my views are my own...seek legal advice if ness
NEVER EVER - act on a private message asking you to visit another website, make contact 'off list' or by telephone
- alert the siteteam IMMEDIATELY by hitting the black warning triangle on any message - Particularly if this results in a request to pay a fee to help you.
rather than hittting to be my friend - hit the star
Now I may have considered this irrelevant at the time but in case it's important: During one of my heated discussions with them they told me that they were unable to provide the signature as a "digital signature" would have been provided for the initiation of the credit agreement, i thought this was utter crap as I'm sure they need to supply the terms of the agreement for a signature to be sent back before they issue the card, i'm sure it works that way for all credit agreements.
Were they right or just blowing hot air at me? as my SAR doesn't contain any signature i'm exited I may be able to say "do your worst" and force them to wipe the debt as no signature is in place but i'm wanting to make sure this digital signature (if there was ever one) is indeed proof.
Even if it were, theres no paperwork showing a digital signature at all in the SAR so either way it makes little difference.
As for claiming interest + charges back, the SAR is quite confusing and doesn't seem to give me a rundown of interest and charges applied in single amounts (like it would be in a bank statement), I think the attached letter told me it would be shown as an accumilative amount at the end of the document which I have yet to see.
Was there a Default Notice, Termination Notice or Notice of Assignment in the SAR response.
You would be unlikely to anything regarding the credit agreement in the SAR response. This would normally only be provided in response to a CCA request which you've already sent, and had back T&C's in response.
By the way, there is some merit in their claim that they've fulfilled the requirements of CCA1974 by only supplying the blank T&C's with no signature. Accordingly, the a/c may not be in dispute as you suggest.
As regards the data sent about their penalty charges, write back and say:-
Dear sir or madam,
Account No xxx xxx
I refer to my SAR of xxdate and to your reply of xxdate.
The data you have supplied for transactions is meaningless without the relevant dates. Would you now provide a list of all account transactions including dates as required.
You could supply copy statements if this is easier for you.
As the expiry for the supply of my data has expired, I require your reply within 14 days.
Yours faithfully,
Have you read Link No5 in my signature which deals with credit agreements and, in particular, on-line applications.
Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.
In regards to the link in the signature, assuming I applied online for the card surely they must need to provide evidence that the signature box was ticked, my SAR doesn't show this and neither did the CCA request last year, and as far as I can see theres no default notice included, i'll have another look soon.
I genuinely can't remember whether I got the card online or in branch.......
In either case, theres no proof of the debt owing in these documents, I just wish I could send them a template letter stating they have no grounds to ask for this to be paid, I wouldn't even be bothered about my credit rating or claiming any charges / interest back as they'll just knock it off the total debt amount owed anyways.
I don't know why i'm getting so wound up about this, i guess i'm just sick and tired of them still hassling me after a year.
What really irks me are the DCA's, no matter which DCA calls me for the debt they always start with the same:
"Hello, i'm from [problem]YouPleaseBendOver Debt Collections, i'm calling on behalf of Barclaycard for an outstanding debt. I am calling for this balance to be paid in full by credit, or debit card today, which method will you be paying with?"
They don't even discuss the matter with you, they jump straight to the "pay now or face the consequences" approach, and sadly this works on many people, especially the elderly and other vulnerable people who think they have no choice but to pay.
Personally, if I could infiltrate their business and expose every dirty, underhanded and exploitable procedure they have to the national press I would gladly do it free of charge.
Until very recently, people have been getting the credit agreement by complaining to the fos. But they have now had a change of attitude and have refused to help any further, as shown on one of Tony3x's threads. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ml#post2828819
Keep an eye on other threads to see if we can still use the FOS to our advantage.
Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.
Urgent Advice Needed
under the CCA as advised on this site.
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Re: Urgent Advice Needed
Originally Posted by dx100uk
