Thread: Hotdog V Hsbc

Hi Hotdog,

I too am getting monthly charges, I complained & got the standard test case letter then got the sod off letter after dodgy supreme court ruling.

Do you know how much you have been charged over the last few years, you should check internet banking - goes back to 2005.

Anyway I think you should check out the new moneysavingexpert guide & see if any of the ombudsman criteria fits you (eg. charges are disproportionate). You can always go to court if ombudsman says no (only downside is that fos take a good few months to decide).

If you don't fancy that or the criteria doesn't fit then you could send a complaint letter to your bank outlining the new legal arguments & basically saying you are not going to lie down & take it!

Hi There,

the the above letter was sent 14.2.10, of which i got a reply from them to contact thier specialist team ...blah blah blah! so i sent them a reply 27.2.10 of which i have posted part of it below. I heard nothing after a few days, so sent them an email 4.3.10, to express my concern that they havnt contacted me, i got an email back to say that its been passed to the correct dept. Up to now, i've heard nothing.

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Firstly thank you for your letters in which you state you will be ''not upholding your complaint and we will not be refunding the bank charges.'' [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']My understanding is, that there should be an 8 weeks timescale for you to address my complaints, or in this instance my application.
Therefore, I consider your 30 day deadline to be somewhat confusing.
[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']
You have stated that this is due to the Supreme Court Judgment ''confirming that the bank charges are not capable of amounting to penalties at common law and that the level of them cannot be assessed for fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations.''

Whilst I recognise that this is the case and that the banks terms are unable to be assessed in terms of price under regulation 6(2)b of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (UTCCR), and as indicated in the Supreme Court judgment the terms are not precluded from the assessment of fairness under regulation 5(1), I still consider the overall contract including terms which allowed you to impose charges on my account to be unfair by virtue of regulation 5(1) of the UTCCR. I also consider the terms to be in breach of section 140 of the Consumer Credit Act.

Your letter also states that ''If you believe that the charges are unfair on grounds other than the level of charges, or that we have failed to address all the issues raised in your complaint, you may escalate your concerns by contacting us setting out the details so that we can consider this further''.

Please find the details of my concerns set out below:

I consider there was an imbalance in the contract to my detriment as consumer because;[/FONT]

• [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I consider that HSBC by virtue of the contract can choose which service they offer without consideration for or confirmation of what I intended. For example you could consider a request for overdraft and pay or simply reject payment on grounds of lack of funds. In performing these services you act as agent for the myself and therefore should have had regard to the Consumer‘s intent. The Consumer‘s intent may be for the request to be facilitated if there are sufficient funds, to be rejected if there are not or to be asked for confirmation (where practicable) otherwise. However the contract denies the Consumer the opportunity to express that or any specific intent other than that determined by the Banks.
  
  I consider that a request to pay is not necessarily a request for overdraft except by virtue of the non-negotiated contract terms. The overdraft assessment is not optional, additionally there was no opt out possibility at commencement of the contract and therefore it acts contrary to good faith and is therefore unfair.[/FONT]
• I suggest that if an 'overdraft extension request' was declined, there is no reason why the Bank's answer for any subsequent requests should be any different if the account balance has not changed other than by virtue of the Relevant Charges being applied? The Consumer could therefore not intend subsequent payments to be requests for assessment, and it would be to their detriment for them to be regarded as such. If the fee was argued to be for checking the Consumer's account, the Banks would actually be providing the same service as they otherwise provide for free and therefore no further consideration should be required unless the circumstances are materially different.
  
  This is evidenced by in December 2009 I contacted the bank to request some help as I knew had fewer funds in my account than necessary to fulfil my transaction obligations - HSBC denied this request, however you subsequently honoured the transactions taking me into 'unauthorised' overdraft and in addition imposed charges totalling £187.93 to my accounts, attracting a greater rate of interest. This in turn led me to struggle the following month attracting further charges. Had the bank accepted my request for a temporary extension to the overdraft facility I would have met my obligations successfully and incurred a single overdraft assessment fee, and the cycle of debt, created in the most part by the bank, would have been much less likely to occur.

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I have already furnished you with my income and expenditure sheets, I consider that this gives you an overview of my financial position, and therefore should allow you to process my claim under [/FONT][FONT='Gill Sans','serif']hardship[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] status without any undue delays. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I’d also like to add that on the 16th December I called the specialist team at HSBC on 0845 600 6423 and spent over an hour on the phone which cost me £28 discussing my income and outgoings, at the end of this conversation I was told “Unfortunately at this time we cannot offer you any help” even though my income is was negative by around £350, and I was up to the max on both my overdrafts. I merely made this call because you deducted money from my tax credits to offset and overdrawn account without notifying me, i had put the money into my saving account to pay my children’s nursery fees for January 2010. Due to HSBC’s act i could not fulfil the full nursery fees. So at this time only 2 months later, I find no faith in seeing how you will view my case differently. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Further to the above, I currently have no desire to call HSBC, as you can understand, I’m a single parent to 2 young children and the only phone I have access to is my mobile of which is not cost effective in my situation to call an 0845 number. So I suggest that the specialist team at HSBC call me, or look back on your records going back to the 16th December 2009 as well as looking at the recent financial expenditure sheet sent to you on the 14th February 2010. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']
Therefore I request you continue to consider my complaint and refund charges imposed under the FSA’s waiver for financial hardship as I sincerely fall within this.

[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]