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    • They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location
    • My defence was standard no paperwork:   1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited. 5. On the 02/01/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the 19/05/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is yet to respond. To date, 02/06/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request. 6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974 (c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Monika the first four pages of the Private parking section have at least 12 of our members who have also been caught out on this scam site. That's around one quarter of all our current complaints. Usually we might expect two current complaints for the same park within 4 pages.  So you are in good company and have done well in appealing to McDonalds in an effort to resolve the matter without having  paid such a bunch of rogues. Most people blindly pay up. Met . Starbucks and McDonalds  are well aware of the situation and seem unwilling to make it easier for motorists to avoid getting caught. For instance, instead of photographing you, if they were honest and wanted you  to continue using their services again, they would have said "Excuse me but if you are going to go to Mc donalds from here, it will cost you £100." But no they kett quiet and are now pursuing you for probably a lot more than £100 now. They also know thst  they cannot charge anything over the amount stated on the car park signs. Their claims for £160 or £170 are unlawful yet so many pay that to avoid going to Court. When the truth is that Met are unlikely to take them to Court since they know they will lose. The PCNs are issued on airport land which is covered by Byelaws so only the driver can be pursued, not the keeper. But they keep writing to you as they do not know who was driving unless you gave it away when you appealed. Even if they know you were driving they should still lose in Court for several reasons. The reason we ask you to fill out our questionnaire is to help you if MET do decide to take you to Court in the end. Each member who visited the park may well have different experiences while there which can help when filling out a Witness statement [we will help you with that if it comes to it.] if you have thrown away the original PCN  and other paperwork you obviously haven't got a jerbil or a guinea pig as their paper makes great litter boxes for them.🙂 You can send an SAR to them to get all the information Met have on you to date. Though if you have been to several sites already, you may have done that by now. In the meantime, you will be being bombarded by illiterate debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors all threatening you with ever increasing amounts as well as being hung drawn and quartered. Their letters can all be safely ignored. On the odd chance that you may get a Letter of Claim from them just come back to us and we will get you to send a snotty letter back to them so that they know you are not happy, don't care a fig for their threats and will see them off in Court if they finally have the guts to carry on. If you do have the original PCN could you please post it up, carefully removing your name. address and car registration number but including dates and times. If not just click on the SAR to take you to the form to send to Met.
    • In order for us to help you we require the following information:- [if there are more than one defendant listed - tell us] 1 defendant   Which Court have you received the claim from ? County Court Business Centre, Northampton   Name of the Claimant ? LC Asset 2 S.A R.L   Date of issue – . 28/04/23   Particulars of Claim   What is the claim for –    (1) The Claimant ('C') claims the whole of the outstanding balance due and payable under an agreement referenced xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and opened effective from xx/xx/2017. The agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ('CCA'), was signed by the Defendant ('D') and from which credit was extended to D.   (2) D failed to comply with a Default Notice served pursuant to s87 (1) CCA and by xx/xx/2022 a default was recorded.   (3) As at xx/xx/2022 the Defendant owed MBNA LTD the sum of 12,xxx.xx. By an agreement in writing the benefit of the debt has been legally assigned to C effective xx/xx/2022 and made regular upon C serving a Notice of Assignment upon D shortly thereafter.   (4) And C claims- 1. 12,xxx.xx 2. Interest pursuant to Section 69 County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from xx/01/2023 to xx/04/2023 of 2xx.xx and thereafter at a daily rate of 2.52 to date of judgement or sooner payment. Date xx/xx/2023   What is the total value of the claim? 12k   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes, but amount differs slightly   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. DP issued claim   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not that I recall...   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not that I recall...   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Yes   Why did you cease payments? Loss of employment main cause   What was the date of your last payment? Early 2021   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No   -----------------------------------
    • Hello CAG Team, I'm adding the contents of the claim to this thread, but wanted to open the thread with an urgent question: Do I have to supply a WS for a claim with a court date that states " at the hearing the court will consider allocation and, time permitting, give an early neutral evaluation of the case" ? letter is an N24 General Form of Judgement or Order, if so, then I've messed up again. Court date 25 May 2024 The letter from court does not state (like the other claims I have) that I must provide WS within 28 days.. BUT I have recently received a WS from Link for it! making me think I do need to!??
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Oyster card problems - Incomplete journeys


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Hi guys, hoping someone can help me out here, cant remember the exact details of the problem (as in time etc) but i think i have it pretty much spot on.

 

I started my journey at Bounds Green in the morning (peak time) on my way to university. I had a presentation at Uni with a mate and we decided to meet up at Kings Cross station (underground). So there was me looking like a mug waiting for him underground for about an hour or so, so i would say i was underground for more or less and hour and 20 mins, i touched out at Kings cross (knowing that if you stay underground for more than 2 hours youll get charged) So i gave him a call no answer (underground?) phoned his house, mum picks up says he left, i go back underground where we were suppose to meet and wait for him for another good 40-60 mins or so? He doesnt show up so i head back to Bounds Green and head back home.

 

When i touch out at Bounds green i get charged for an incomplete journey, why? i was not underground for more than two hours OR touched in and out at the same station, so why was i charged?

 

This has happend to me once before about 5 or 6 months ago, where again i touched in at Bounds green, waited again for him again at Kings cross (lol he normally turns up just incase your all wondering), he never turned up, wasnt underground for 2 hours and i go back and touch out at wood green and then get charged for an incomplete journey. (has this one anything to do with the fact that the two stations i next to eachother? the guy at the counter tried to explain it to me, though he was not fluent in english and i never quite understood his explanation)

 

Hope all that made sense. Please can someone try and explain to me why on these two occasions i got charged?

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I think following your explanation above gives a good clue unless you have mossed something out

 

1. You state that you travelled from Bounds Green (touched in)

2. You state that you touched out at Kings Cross

3. You state that you were charged the maximum fare for an incomplete journey on arrival back at Wood Green

 

This would appear to be correct because you do not mention touching in again to start of your later journey to Wood Green

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I think following your explanation above gives a good clue unless you have mossed something out

 

1. You state that you travelled from Bounds Green (touched in)

2. You state that you touched out at Kings Cross

3. You state that you were charged the maximum fare for an incomplete journey on arrival back at Wood Green

 

This would appear to be correct because you do not mention touching in again to start of your later journey to Wood Green

 

Not sure which one you mean but if you mean my first journey i forgot to mention, that i did touch in (after touching out) at Kings cross when going back to BOUNDS Green. What i did was I made the phone call which was no longer than 5 -10 mins then went back and touched in at kings cross and went back to bounds green. Is there a certain time limit from where you touch out and are allowed to touch back in again at the station?

 

If your talking about my second journey, i touched in at bounds green, waited (underground) at kings cross, mate never arrived, so traveled back to wood green and touched out there, knowing that i couldnt touch back out at bounds green.

 

Hope that makes it more clear.

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Hi, i've found the receipt for my second journey! (joy!!)

 

I started my journey from bounds green at 11:43, i arrived back at wood green at 1:17 and it doesnt say "incomplete journey" it says "unstarted" with a charge of £4.30.

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One last post before i hush as i got to start some uni work in a bit. I was searching google for 'unstarted' charges and found this:

 

> Touching out and touching straight back in at the same station doesn't

> necessarily end and restart a new journey, and there are logical reasons for

> this. Once a journey that has been joined to another goes beyond the time

> limit (and that limit is variable dependent on zones crossed) the first part

> of the journey becomes 'uncompleted' and the latter part 'unstarted'. This

> is charged as two 'maximum cash fares' and doesn't contribute to the daily

> cap.

 

So would it not make more sense to only combine them if the combined

journey is within the time limit for the overall journey and keep them

as separate journeys[1] if the combined journey would be over the time

limit. Also, always treat it as 2 separate journeys rather than

combining them where someone touches in at A, touches out at B, then

later touches in again at B travels to A and touches out.

[1] As long as the time between between each touch in and the next touch

out is within the time limit.

 

--------------------------------------

 

I think this could explain both my journeys, but dont quite understand what they mean by 'new journeys' etc, can anyone desribe it in more basic terminology? What do they mean by time limits etc?

 

Sorry.

 

Thx.

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To be certain of anything, I always find that so far as Oyster is concerned, it is much better to see the record from the Oyster monitoring system to be sure of what is alleged. This records all your touch-in and outs and has accurate timings along with location and credit details.

 

You can get a print out of your card transactions for the last 8 weeks by calling the Oyster Helpline on 0845 330 9876 and you can query the matter at the same time

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  • 1 month later...

On Oyster, if you touch in and out within 5 minutes a the same station, it charges you the full possible fare for your journey. This is because a lot of people would touch in, then immediately touch out to 'complete ' their journeys, and before tfl cottoned onto this were being charged the minimum fare possible. I would always advise if you finish a journey and notice a problem, go straight to a ticket office window where most staff will resolve your journey.

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  • 2 months later...

Hello,

 

I had the same problem twice this weekend and was able to get a refund. I went from shepherds bush market (touch in) to Kings cross st-Pancras (touch out) and then ~15 minutes later from Kings cross st-Pancras (touch in) back to Shepherds bush market (touch out). On touching out at Shepherds Bush market I noticed 4.30 was retrieved from my card which was wrong.

 

Then I called the Oyster helpline and explained the issue. They agreed there was a problem and said they were aware of this issue. It is a bug that was introduced in Jan 2010 when oyster card became valid on National Rail. It affects all stations with an interchange to rail network (Kings Cross, Victoria, etc.). Since you are touching out in one of those stations, the system somehow expects you to continue your journey. But if you go back in less than ~30 min or so it does not work correctly.

 

I think it is quite outrageous that we are now already end of May (nearly 5 months since Jan), that this issue has not yet been fixed at their end and that TFL just keeps quiet about this. It potentially affect thousands of travellers, whenever for example you go to bring some friends to the train station and back home.

 

Only solution currently if you planning to go to a train station and back is having 2 different oyster cards (one for departure, one for return journey) or systematically ask for a refund.

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  • 9 months later...
One last post before i hush as i got to start some uni work in a bit. I was searching google for 'unstarted' charges and found this:

 

> Touching out and touching straight back in at the same station doesn't

> necessarily end and restart a new journey, and there are logical reasons for

> this. Once a journey that has been joined to another goes beyond the time

> limit (and that limit is variable dependent on zones crossed) the first part

> of the journey becomes 'uncompleted' and the latter part 'unstarted'. This

> is charged as two 'maximum cash fares' and doesn't contribute to the daily

> cap.

 

So would it not make more sense to only combine them if the combined

journey is within the time limit for the overall journey and keep them

as separate journeys[1] if the combined journey would be over the time

limit. Also, always treat it as 2 separate journeys rather than

combining them where someone touches in at A, touches out at B, then

later touches in again at B travels to A and touches out.

[1] As long as the time between between each touch in and the next touch

out is within the time limit.

 

--------------------------------------

 

I think this could explain both my journeys, but dont quite understand what they mean by 'new journeys' etc, can anyone desribe it in more basic terminology? What do they mean by time limits etc?

 

Sorry.

 

Thx.

 

Hi, I found this thread really interesting because I think I had something quite similar happen to me recently where I touched out then touched in again to start a new journey at the same station. Could you please tell me what the time limit is and if it can affect your second swipe being recorded properly? Thanks!

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Another point worth mentioning is that TfL hope to get rid of a lot of ticket windows staff because they 'arnt needed', but of course, when things go wrong, you cant ask a machine for advice....

 

Andy

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I would always advise if you finish a journey and notice a problem, go straight to a ticket office window where most staff will resolve your journey.

 

If Boris gets his way, there soon won't be any ticket office windows...

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If Boris gets his way, there soon won't be any ticket office windows...

 

Funny you should say that becuse the other day I had £1.60 on my oyster but couldnt travel coz it need £1.80 on it, simple i thought, ill top it up with 20p, there were 2 ticket mafhines and none would except my 20p and I eventually found a staff member who rubbed my 20p on the wall and it eventually worked and he pointed out that in future there wont be many/any staff to help in situations like that.

 

Andy

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Could you please let me know as soon as you can if it is recorded when an Oyster reader doesn't read your card properly? Thanks!

 

In short the answer is yes, there are many failure codes that will show up on the Oyster record, for instance 'insufficient SV', 'pass back over', 'invalid card' and many others.

 

These will all show a 'Seek Assistance' indication to the traveller.

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There are two issues at work in this thread. First is the concept of maximum journey times. It used to be 2 hours before National Rail completely joined Oyster in January 2010, but now there is a sliding scale depending on how many zone boundaries are crossed in the course of the journey. Most limits are in excess of two hours, but single zone journeys in the suburbs must be completed within 70 minutes during the daytime Monday to Friday, and the limit goes up from there. The second is the concept of Out-of-station-interchanges, or OSIs for short. They facilitate joining journeys together and thus reducing the cost. Unfortunately they can sometimes have undesirable side effects. Kings Cross is more complicated than most because in addition to the OSIs between the Underground station and both Kings Cross and St Pancras NR stations there is also an OSI between any pair of the three different underground gatelines.

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Hi, i've found the receipt for my second journey! (joy!!)

 

I started my journey from bounds green at 11:43, i arrived back at wood green at 1:17 and it doesnt say "incomplete journey" it says "unstarted" with a charge of £4.30.

 

tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14872.aspx

 

A journey from Bounds Green (Z3) to Kings Cross (Z1) would have been subject to a time limit of 90 minutes when you travelled.

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