Thread: NORTHERN ROCK TOGETHER MORTGAGE - Help please? x.

Still unsure of what to do, so I contacted the Citizens Advice Bureau. They advised speaking to Northern Rock about our worries and consider sending a complaint to the FSA, regarding irresponsible lending. They said to maybe even ring the FSA first to see if we would have ground for a complaint.

I called the FSA and explained things to them. They said it would be a complaint they would consider and look in to. They are sending out complaints forms to me and said they would NOT contact Northern Rock unless we decided to pursue the complaint.

I'm also sending a Subject access request to Northern Rock, so that we have all details to help us hopefully make a better decision in what to do.

Am I going about this the right way? Does anyone have any advice at all? Is all of this even worth it, or do we have no real basis to complain?

Thank you x.

Anyone? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you x.

Hi Zilla,

Thanks for your reply.

I have thought about it, yes - but it would only be for 12 months, we'd only actually be saving £90 per month, I'm still debating if it's the right thing to do, or if it will, in the long run just make matters worse. We've always jumped in with the payment holidays etc when the time was right, to resolve the burden for a short while - but I can't help but think, are we just making things worse for the future?

When our fixed term agreement is up next January, no-one else will touch us with a barge-poll and we'll go to Northern Rock's standard variable rate - which is actually a lower rate than our fixed rate at the moment, but if it goes higher, we're up the creek without a paddle, so to speak.

I just don't know what to do. But it looks like we're stuck with Northern Rock for a long time yet! Unless we can claim or something re irresponsible lending, but I don't know if we'd have any kind of grounds?

Many thanks x.

Hi again! Wondering whether to even bother completing the forms re complaint to FSA? Don't know if it would actually help at all?

Then there's this "Clear Unfair Credit" company. Don't know if they're genuine, or just out to take people for a ride.

I can't help but feel that Northern Rock have been majorly irresponsible in their lending (as above). I know we're to blame too - but if they'd not offered it, we'd have just not bought a house when we did. No other mortgage company offered us a mortgage without a deposit at the time. The payment holidays etc are a light at the end of the tunnel for a while, but in the end they just make matters worse - and put even more money in Northern Rock's pocket.

We're stuck!

Any advice, please?

Thank you x.

Anyone? x.

I read somewhere that if I complain to the FSA, they just side with the mortgage provider, is this true?

x.

Clear Unfair Credit are a claims managment company. They know little to nothing about the law and are essentially a middleman between you and the solicitors who actually do the work. It is entirely possible that they charge a referral fee to the solicitors, and get something out of it that way. If you do want to use them, or any other CMC, I would suggest you ask about referral fees, which company will check your loan agreement (I don't think that a mathematical audit will achieve anything in this case) and that sort of thing.

There may be an aspect of what is known as an "unfair relationship" in the way these agreements were handled. Northern Rock lent you money that they probably shouldn't have, and then kindly assisted you in getting even further into debt. Did they explain for they payment holidays and maternity breaks that they your debt was still accumulating interest?

Something else to watch out for with these together loans/mortgages is this: if you read through your unsecured loan agreement, you may well find that should you ever cease to be a borrower under the mortgage, the interest on the unsecured loan will jump by 5%.

There may be solicitors dealing with consumer credit act matters who might be able to do something about this, but its by no means certain and very likely will be no help at all for a long time - months. Always be weary of anyone who promises a definate outcome.

Hi, thanks so much for replies............

"There may be an aspect of what is known as an "unfair relationship" in the way these agreements were handled. Northern Rock lent you money that they probably shouldn't have, and then kindly assisted you in getting even further into debt."

>> I'd be interested to know more about the "unfair relationship".

"Something else to watch out for with these together loans/mortgages is this: if you read through your unsecured loan agreement, you may well find that should you ever cease to be a borrower under the mortgage, the interest on the unsecured loan will jump by 5%."

>> The loan DOES jump by 5% if we pay the secured part off, but choose to keep the unsecured part with them, which we didn't realise at the time, but it is in there - and we signed.

I also heard that Northern Rock gave an option of taking the unsecured part just over 5 years, instead of the whole mortgage term - although this was something that was never mentioned at the time we took it out.

Many thanks x.

The relevant legislation for Unfair Relationships is the Consumer Credit Act 1974, section 140A-C (as amended). These were added to the Act by the Consumer Credit Act 2006, and there are complicated "transitional provisions" covering agreements already entered into.
This is the link for s140.
Consumer Credit Act 1974 (c. 39) - Statute Law Database

It seems to me that some of what NR did, in advising you to take breaks during which interest accrued, would be suspect under the OFT's draft guidelines on irresponsible lending, but then, those guidelines were not present at the time.

I have heard of one success using s140, which resulted what had been a pattern of predatory lending being in effect reduced and rescheduled by the court, however this is pretty new stuff.

Lawyers will be weary of it because of the breadth of the test, the discretion of the court, and the extensive nature of evidence required to run such a case. There's a lack of authority with regard to section 140, possible for that very reason.

As for the 5%, it is a nasty little surprise, and perhaps arguable under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, but that is a less relevant concern now that the mortgages are so much harder to come by...

Hi,

I received some paperwork back from Northern Rock. I only received details regarding the unsecured part of our Together mortgage, as the request I sent the one relating to the Consumer Credit Agreement - as confirmation, the agreement does state......

"If you cease to be a Borrower with us under the mortgage, (or transfer to a new mortgage product with us, or enter a new mortgage with us) a variable rate which will be 5% above our Standard Variable Rate will apply to this agreement".

Neither of us can remember that part, but it's there - and at the time anyway, of course, we never imagined that we wouldn't be able to just go and get another mortgage elsewhere at the end of the 5 year fixed term. As it stands now, we won't be able to for the whole mortgage, because of negative equity - so we have two optons 1) to stay with Northern Rock at whatever their rate may be for both parts of the mortgage OR 2) try and move the secured part to another provider & keep the unsecured part with Northern Rock - but at 5% above their SVR. Of course, as we've been moved to Northern Rock Asset Management, we don't have the pleasure of being offered any kind of new deal with Northern Rock.

OUT OF interest, I called to query why they sent nothing regarding the secured part of our mortgage - and they said that there was no Consumer Credit Agreement for the secured part, that it was just the signed mortgage offer. ********** The thing is, I've just had another look through the folder that we kept everything in from when we took the mortgage out - and in there is the signed agreement for the unsecured loan. There is NOTHING AT ALL signed relating to the secured part of the mortgage. We have letters referring to the mortgage itself, but no signed offer, agreement or anything. I would have thought we would have had a copy of anything signed. **********

********** Should / would there be something? What would we have signed at the time to agree to the secured mortgage? If there is nothing signed, what would happen? **********

I've sent off a Subject access request relating to the Data Protection Act this time, to see the secured documents - and hopefully all other information they hold on us.

APOLOGIES TO EVERYONE IF I SOUND REALLY DIM, THINGS LIKE THIS HAVE NEVER BEEN MY STRONG POINT.

Many thanks x,

I suppose there might be some kind of mis-selling there - that 5% thing is really rather important. Taking into account that the credit you took at the time was in part to settle other debts, it's not unreasonable to expect Northern Rock to point out that the 5% and the inflexibility it would cause in your finances.
This isn't really the sort of thing you'd pursue through the courts, but it might be worth trying to take it to the fos. First you would have to complain to Northern Rock (Asset Management) setting out the problem (the 5% was (a) an essential part of the product, imposed because they wanted to tie the unsecured loan to the mortgage, in turn because they used the unsecured loan to top up the mortgage, (b) inadequately explained to you at the time of sale - NR were aware you were re-financing in addition to purchasing, therefore particular care should have been taken to draw the 5% to your attention, and, evidently, it wasn't).

The trouble is it's hard to quantify the harm caused - if NR had explained about 5% at the time of the mortgage, would you still have taken the loan with NR, or would you have obtained credit elsewhere on similar terms, without the 5% clause? Would you have obtained all the credit secured against the property? etc.

If Northern Rock don't respond satisfactorily, then you can complain to FOS. There are probably lots of people around here who know more about FOS proceedure than I do, so you should be able to get help with that...

plenty of people had these mortgages...they helped push house prices even higher and people just went along with it...and now many many people are priced out of the market due to these mortgages and liar loans.....what a mess!!!

if i lied about my earning and got a 200k mortgage i could offer more than someone who never lied...hence i was responsible for putting up prices...and high prices mean less spare money for normal living..

Anyone?

Thanks x.

Hi emlouh,

I hope you are well.

You have my complete sympathy as I am also a Northern Rock 'together' customer. Thinking about it, the whole mortgage was a mistake when the banks were engaged in a money grabbing practise. We were paying dead rent on a flat in London which was getting too small. We had no savings (we were paying it all in rent), existing personal loans and credit cards (which we were trying to get down) and knew that, at the time, house prices were rising all of the time. It seemed there was no way we'd get on the property ladder, despite both of us holding down good (secure-ish) Civil Service jobs.

We therefore approached Lloyds TSB, as we were both existing Lloyds customers, just to see what we could do in the future. Unsurprisingly, Lloyds said there was nothing they could do there and then, but advised us not to lose heart because they would refer us to their mortgage broker at Cheltenham & Gloucester to see what they could do. The guy from C&G phoned us up and we went through the basics on the phone. He pretty much said that the only people willing to give us a mortgage would be Northern Rock, and he quickly explained the deal. Before we knew it he was talking us through an application and, equally as quickly, we were accepted! At the time we couldn't believe our luck! We were just managing to jump on the property ladder, just as house prices were continuing to rise! How lucky!

Then the crash happened. It didn't concern us too much at the time as we already knew we couldn't go anywhere else and we were tied to a two ear fixed rate. We just hoped that the bank would be taken over by another bank and then we would be offered another fixed rate at the end of our fixed rate.

Sadly it wasn't to be. We were "trapped" (for wont of a better word) and our mortgage has been shunted to Northern Rock Asset Management. Now our fixed rate is coming to an end and NRAM have advised us we will be going onto their standard variable rate. For the moment it's to our advantage (it's lower then the fixed rate we were on) but things can only get worse... I'm fairly certain they won't get better!

Then there has been an added worry. Life is expensive (especially here in London) and credit cards have crept up as there is little spare money in the house. I've dipped into my Barclays overdraft and, because of a couple of cash flow issues, I've used a safety net facility - at a charge of £22 for each week I use it. On top of this I have a personal loan coming out of my account every month - which Barclays agreed to AFTER the Northern Rock mortgage had come through. I recently asked Barclays for some help - consolidating the overdraft, loan and credit card with one single loan only £3k above the original loan amount from two years ago. Given that I've had two work promotions since then, and the payment would actually be LESS then my current outgoings I didn't think there would be a problem. They flatly refused. So now I'm stuck with a Northern Rock 'together' mortgage I can't negotiate deals on, a home in negative equity (in a duff part of London) , a credit card I'm making minimum payment on (but can't afford anymore), an overdraft I am trying to get out of, a loan which still isn't paid off (will be in three years) and a student loan which they've started to take money for (because my wage is above the threshold).

On top of this we are expecting our first baby in a few months.

I feel I have been completely screwed over by banks and building societies who were quick to offer me these products as my wife and myself tried to build a life together.

The really annoying thing is I'm not a 'bad' customer. I always make minimum payment, we've not had mortgage trouble (yet) and we got into what appeared to be a legitimate mortgage deal fairly. Yet now because it is 'asset management' it is none negotiable, and suddenly the banks who were so willing to help in the past are unwilling to help anymore.

Anyone got a magic wand? (Or next week's lottery numbers?!)

We are in exactly the same position with a Northern Rock together mortgage - i wish we had never been accepted - i wish we had just opted to rent as i can't see an end to the night mare.

We are due to come out of ou fixed term next March and i'm dreading it as no other company will touch us due to the serious negative equity.

We have only managed up to now living on overdrafts and credit cards as my partner lost his job - he has a new one now but the wage is much less and differs every week.

It feels like we are constantly fighting a losing battle, I don't know where to turn and just keep hoping for a change of fortune!

In a way its nice to know there are people out there in the same boat, just which someone had an easier answer but hey ho. if anyone does find an easier answer please let me know))