Hi

My ex-flatmate and I are going to court this week over unpaid council tax. They are saying we owe approx £950. When we signed the contract with our ex LL it stated all bills were included including council tax.

Our ex LL changed the liability from his name into our name after we took him to court over the non return of our deposit (which we won) he obviously done this in retaliation.

Anyway we were told to appeal it which were did although we never got a formal response just a court summons.

Alongside this I have decided to take the ex LL to court over this as he obviously used this portion of our money elsewhere, we thought it was being used for bills.

Anyway, I would like some advice regarding this case and also I would like to know if it does not go in our favour can we get a CCJ on council tax at the magistrates court or are CCJ’s just for consumer debt?

Thanks in advance

Can you confirm is it the council taking you to get a liability order?

Yes but they are taking us to court to get the money, apparently the bill is already in our names

Going by your reply, I don't think you are quite up on how council tax works. The council issues a tax bill, but has no power of collection, they take you to court to get a 'liability order' which then gives them power to collect.

Their prefered method is to use bailiffs, but they can, and do, also use an 'attachment of earning' (aoe), where your employer takes weekly or monthly (depending how you are paid), payments directly from your wages. There is no getting around an aoe and your employer must make the deductions.

The liability order will be granted unless you go to court and dispute you owe it. You don't have to have proof positive that you don't owe it as it is not like a criminal court, but will have to show good reason.

All the judge can rule on is are you liable or not and cannot take into account ability to pay etc; so will not grant it if there is any doubt.

Councils don't care if you owe it or not, they are only interested in the money, so will not have a good look into who is the real person who actually owes it and couldn't care less if you can afford it or not.

If you don't turn up at court, the liability order 'will' be granted so make sure you turn up in court. He will be asked by the council to rubber stamp many dozens at the same time, so will ask if there is anyone here who disputes it and if no one replies, will just rubber stamp the spreadsheet.

A liability order is not recorded or the same as a county court judgement to force payment, and will not show on any credit report.

Do you have your copy of the tenancy agreement showing that the landlord is the one who is liable ?

Hi thanks, this make so much sense now

Yes we have the origional contact that clearly states council tax is included, I think we have rent recipts and we have our issue letter from the county court.

The choice is yours now. When you go to court, you can talk to the council rep who will be there and they will scrub it off the list when they see what you have, or you can refuse to speak the them and voice your objection in the court.

Please keep us informed with what happens, and if you take a camera, please get a picture and post here of the council reps face when you bring to light your paperwork.

Really!! ok

My ex-flatmate and I are going to court this week over unpaid council tax. They are saying we owe approx £950. When we signed the contract with our ex LL it stated all bills were included including council tax.

Unless the property is an HMO (or another property under the council tax(liability of owners) regs) then , providing that the L/L was non-resident, then you are liable for Council Tax and the demand notice should be in your names and the not the L/L's. Any agreement you may have had with the L/L is between you and him and does not remove your legal liability for any council tax due under the council tax (administration and enforcement) regs 1992 section 6.

You need to pursue your L/L seperately for any monies you may have paid him or costs that you have incurred (e.g breech of contract).

Yes I was told this, but I was also told by the council tax office that we can appeal it as we have a contract so he has accepted liablity, this is why we chose to take him to court and why we are going to defend ourselves

The problem is any appeal can only fit within the council tax legislation - (an appeal on liability isn't made by way of the court, it has be done via the local authority and the appeals tribunal (whatever there current name is)) - this determines that you are liable (any other decision by the authority would be ultra vires).

The magistrate would have to grant the Liability Order based on the information you have given as, unfortunate as your situation is, you are the people legally liable for the council tax due.

Ok well i'll see what happens this week, this is why we are going, if we have to pay we will pay £1 a week until our hearing with ex LL

^^

The liability order will be granted unless you go to court and dispute you owe it. You don't have to have proof positive that you don't owe it as it is not like a criminal court, but will have to show good reason.

All the judge can rule on is are you liable or not and cannot take into account ability to pay etc; so will not grant it if there is any doubt.

It may be down to the judges discression, I have seen judges that do by their views and not the law to the T.

Our appeal was never responded to

The magistrate has no discretion- either he grants the L/O or not , if the person is liable then he must grant it.

If he does not grant it then he acting outside his powers . He has to look at it from a purely legal point of view under the council tax (administration and enforcement) regs 1992 where under section 6 of these regs the resident is liable for the council tax in this case.

If an amount is outstanding for a period in which a person is liable and that amount falls due in full then a L/O has been granted.

Bear in mind that the L/A don't have to accept a payment arrangement from you.

Ok, I'll let you know how it goes on Thursday