Thread: FOS Acceptance Forms.......my experience!

Hi everyone

Mr Landy and myself have several mis-sold PPI complaints currently lodged with the fos. Last June the first of these complaints (against MBNA) was upheld and we were sent the FOS acceptance form to sign. The FOS letter stated that -

'We have set out how the settlement will be calculated on the next page of this letter. The offer is based upon the general approach we take when we decide that a consumer has been mis-sold a PPI policy.'

The acceptance form stated that by signing the form it was in 'full and final settlement' of the complaint.

At the time we asked the FOS if they could get MBNA to confirm the amount of refund on offer. The FOS response was that -

'....signing the acceptance form signifies that you are happy with the manner in which the business proposes to settle the dispute. It does not mean that you will be unable to query the amount of the payment should you wish to.

If on receipt of the monies, you feel the settlement amount is not correct, we would suggest you contact the business and ask them to explain their calculations. If the business does not satisfy your concern, then please write to us setting out the reasons you have cause for concern, enclosing any evidence you may wish to submit.'

We duly signed the acceptance form - although we still had uncertainties about accepting the offer in full and final settlement whilst having no knowledge of what that offer was we felt reassured by the FOS that we could dispute the amount later on.

Instead of sending us a letter with the amount of refund on offer, MBNA sent a cheque - this included all PPI premiums paid, but only a tiny amount of interest which didn't amount to the 8% referred to in the FOS guidelines. We immediately contacted MBNA (in August 2009) accepting the cheque in part settlement only and voicing our concerns that the refund was lacking in the 8% interest on the premiums. MBNA completely ignored our recorded delivery letter.

We then went back to the FOS explaining the situation regarding the interest. The FOS contacted us in October stating that MBNA had informed them there was no credit balance for interest to be calculated on and as such they agreed with MBNA.

Having thoroughly perused the MBNA statements we found there had been a credit balance and wrote back to the FOS with this evidence. The FOS adjudicator telephoned to say he stood by his decision that MBNA had followed FOS redress methods. We asked (in writing) for our complaint to be passed to an Ombudsman. We received the standard acknowledgement of your correspondence letter in November. This week we have received a letter from a new adjudicator saying the complaint has been passed to him and that we have 'queried the manner in which the calculation of your redress payment has been carried out.'

No mention of an ombudsman

Now the same thing is happening all over again - this time with ltsb. The FOS has upheld our complaints and the acceptance forms have arrived. This time from the outset the accompanying letter is worded differently -

'Please note that by signing the form, you are accepting the general approach to calculating the settlement on your complaint. LTSB will then write to you with the exact figures once the calculation has been carried out. If, once the figures have been received, you believe the firm has made an error in the way it has carried out the calculation, please contact the firm initially to discuss this. If you are unable to resolve the matter with the firm, we will be happy to assist.'

However the acceptance form still includes the wording 'full and final settlement' and this, I believe, is where the fault lies.

By producing a form that includes that term they appear to playing right into the hands of any unscrupulous financial institutions out there. It seems obvious to me that if you query the amount offered/received the firm is bound to say - 'well, you signed the form in full and final acceptance, so tough luck'.

So again we have refused to sign the forms provided by the FOS - I trust LTSB even less than MBNA and we have already experienced instances of them using the correct redress methods, but the incorrect figures and once again the FOS has failed to notice this mistake - and I'm sure the FOS will soon be in touch to say we must sign the forms. This time I'm not giving in without a fight though!

For anyone who hasn't estimated the amount of refund they believe is due there is a strong chance they will accept what is offered as correct and not know any different, but thanks to Cag I now question everything!

Apologies for the length of this post and thanks to all who take the time to read it!

Landy x

That is an excellent thread landy alert and I for one will advise you not to give and pursue this. I sometimes think that the fos are really a complete waste of space and time. I have heard a many negative and some positive things about them, but I for one am not happy with how they handle things.

I am currently dealing with them at present as they are handling my complaint against HSBC, and by reading your thread can see how incompetent they are. I hope you stick to your guns and don't let them or the banks get away with anything. Its fight fight fight, and then you seem to get somewhere nowadays, so don't give up and please keep us posted as I will be looking forward to what the final result is.

take care

frett

Hi Frettful

Many thanks for your support - it's most appreciated!

To be honest I quite agree that the way the fos handles certain things leaves a lot to be desired. You would have thought that the inclusion of the term 'Full and final settlement' in their acceptance form was an obvious error and bound to be open to misinterpretation by certain firms, but the FOS don't seem to see this.

Once I've received replies from the FOS regarding signing the two ltsb PPI refund acceptance forms, I'll let you know - although I can't see the FOS agreeing with my reasoning behind not signing unfortunately.

Good Luck with your HSBC complaint!

Take care,

Landy x

I had the same issue when fos found in my favour against Co-op bank.

I rang FOS who said that they couldn't tell me how much the refund would be and that Co-op would not issue the refund without the full & final signature acceptance!

My argument remains that for an offer of full & final settlement to be accepted, an actual offer needs to be made!!

Originally Posted by mkb

I had the same issue when fos found in my favour against Co-op bank.

I rang FOS who said that they couldn't tell me how much the refund would be and that Co-op would not issue the refund without the full & final signature acceptance!

My argument remains that for an offer of full & final settlement to be accepted, an actual offer needs to be made!!

Hi MKB

I totally agree with your last comment - how did you get on? I hope you got the matter sorted?

For what it's worth I've written to the FOS explaining my reasoning behind not signing the forms and I've written to ltsb asking for a full details of what they are offering...........you can almost guarantee what the responses will be from both quarters!

Landy x

Originally Posted by mkb

I had the same issue when fos found in my favour against Co-op bank.

I rang FOS who said that they couldn't tell me how much the refund would be and that Co-op would not issue the refund without the full & final signature acceptance!

My argument remains that for an offer of full & final settlement to be accepted, an actual offer needs to be made!!

I think that is a very reasonable question to ask before signing any kind of form. How do you know what you are accepting, I mean they could offer you 0.01p for all you know, and if you protest after they will say you did sign and agree.
There must be something somewhere, or someone with better knowledge of this who will be able to shed some more light on this matter mkb.

Good luck

Missold PPI refunds come under the heading of "money paid under a mistake". the correct method of calculation of the final repayment should be based upon the principle of restitutionary damages.
The fos will not award on this basis. They only award 8% max - even though on their website they say that their guiding principle for awards is to ensure that the customer will not have suffered any loss.

If you have a decision from the FOS which upholds your claim for missold PPI, then the next thing to do is to refuse the award and to continue to the courts and sue there. It will be very much quicker than the FOS and the court has the power to award restitutionary damages which are likely to be very much more than 8%.

I would suggest that you return the acceptance form to the FOS (take a copy). don't sign it. Instead, lay out the figure that you want and the calculation you have used to arrive at that figure. Tell them to pass it on to the bank and tell them that if you do not have an agreement from the bank within 14 days that you will sue the bank.
If you have a decision in your favour from the FOS - you will use this in evidence in your case before the county court.
I rate your chances of success in the courts and of getting a correct award as better than 90%.
I rate the chances of the bank giving in and paying you to avoid a court hearing as better than 80%.
I rate the chances of them requiring a confidentiality agreement as 100%.

Refuse confidentiality unless they pay you an extra £1000 for your silence.
You won't be prejudiced by refusing to sign confidentiality.

Incidentally - "correct award" in the post above means at least the 8%. Full restitutionary damages would depend upon the circumstances but where the misselling has really be gross then the likelihood of restitutionary damages is very high.

Originally Posted by BankFodder

Missold PPI refunds come under the heading of "money paid under a mistake". the correct method of calculation of the final repayment should be based upon the principle of restitutionary damages.
The fos will not award on this basis. They only award 8% max - even though on their website they say that their guiding principle for awards is to ensure that the customer will not have suffered any loss.

If you have a decision from the FOS which upholds your claim for missold PPI, then the next thing to do is to refuse the award and to continue to the courts and sue there. It will be very much quicker than the FOS and the court has the power to award restitutionary damages which are likely to be very much more than 8%.

I would suggest that you return the acceptance form to the FOS (take a copy). don't sign it. Instead, lay out the figure that you want and the calculation you have used to arrive at that figure. Tell them to pass it on to the bank and tell them that if you do not have an agreement from the bank within 14 days that you will sue the bank.
If you have a decision in your favour from the FOS - you will use this in evidence in your case before the county court.
I rate your chances of success in the courts and of getting a correct award as better than 90%.
I rate the chances of the bank giving in and paying you to avoid a court hearing as better than 80%.
I rate the chances of them requiring a confidentiality agreement as 100%.

Refuse confidentiality unless they pay you an extra £1000 for your silence.
You won't be prejudiced by refusing to sign confidentiality.

Wish this post had been here before I signed & returned the FOS form

Originally Posted by BankFodder

Missold PPI refunds come under the heading of "money paid under a mistake". the correct method of calculation of the final repayment should be based upon the principle of restitutionary damages.
The fos will not award on this basis. They only award 8% max - even though on their website they say that their guiding principle for awards is to ensure that the customer will not have suffered any loss.

If you have a decision from the FOS which upholds your claim for missold PPI, then the next thing to do is to refuse the award and to continue to the courts and sue there. It will be very much quicker than the FOS and the court has the power to award restitutionary damages which are likely to be very much more than 8%.

I would suggest that you return the acceptance form to the FOS (take a copy). don't sign it. Instead, lay out the figure that you want and the calculation you have used to arrive at that figure. Tell them to pass it on to the bank and tell them that if you do not have an agreement from the bank within 14 days that you will sue the bank.
If you have a decision in your favour from the FOS - you will use this in evidence in your case before the county court.
I rate your chances of success in the courts and of getting a correct award as better than 90%.
I rate the chances of the bank giving in and paying you to avoid a court hearing as better than 80%.
I rate the chances of them requiring a confidentiality agreement as 100%.

Refuse confidentiality unless they pay you an extra £1000 for your silence.
You won't be prejudiced by refusing to sign confidentiality.

Hi BankFodder

Many thanks for this very informative and helpful response. I will do as you have suggested and report back here how I get on.

Landy x

Exactly the route I'm taking with the Co-op bank now as I had this same acceptance form friday gone.

So Court here I come.

subbing.

Hi Landy,

I'm in exactly the same position over an Egg PPI claim.

Had to sign the form before they would uphold my complaint, again they stated that Egg would inform me of the settlement figure BEFORE making the refund.

Egg didnt, they just sent a cheque in F&F settlement with no Breakdown of how they arrived at that figure, they even tried pulling the six year stunt on not paying all premiums, however, thanks to BRW I pointed out the Limitations Act & they (rather quickly) refunded the balance of premiums stating that they 'misunderstood' the fos directive.

They have not refunded interest and are refusing to do so as I signed the fos acceptence form in F&F settlement. Gone back to the fos & they wont look at it unless I provide photocopies of all statements & the agreement (which I dont have as the card balance was converted to a loan 4years ago) as a minimum to esculate the complaint.

S'pose its too late for court action on this one - live & learn as they say

Beachy

Hi everyone

A bit of an update -

Well, as it turned out LTSB did eventually provide the figures they were intending to refund along with quite detailed calcs of how they had arrived at them. The fos forwarded these to me and I then indicated that I would sign the acceptance forms, but on the understanding that Lloyds would honour their offers. The FOS confirmed that Lloyds would do this although of course when the acceptance forms were received they still had no figures on them.............once again I reiterated that I was signing on the basis of the figures I had been given.

The first two cheques duly arrived and the amounts were correct. I am still awaiting the last two - the FOS has indicated that LTSB are running behind schedule with refunding and to allow an extra four weeks, so I don't know as yet whether these two will be correct.

I have also put in a complaint re: mis-sold PPI on a second MBNA credit card account and once again MBNA have trotted out their line about 'associated interest' - amounting to approx £20 on over £800 of premiums dating from 2004-2007

They have since increased their offer to include just over £100 in statutory interest, but it still falls far short of the amount I claimed. Not only that but they say they have credited the refunded amounts to the account - which was sold to a DCA in 2008

So I am now contemplating legal action over this one..................

PF - wishing you well with your claim - you have waited so long for your refund and worked so hard to get it, it must all come right for you soon. Court looks like the only way you will see closure on this!

Beachy - I can't understand why the FOS says you have to provide the statements - last year on my other MBNA PPI complaint the FOS actually requested copies of all Mr L's statements from MBNA (and even sent us copies as we didn't have the full set) - surely they should do this in your case?

Good Luck to you both with this - I really feel the FOS are less of an ally in these complaints than I had originally imagined and court seems to be our only hope for getting full recompense.

Landy x

Hi,

Has anyone taken a company to court over the compound contractual interest issue. The fos guidelines do not consider this interest, but if the PPI payment is added on to the statement before the interest is applied then you are paying compound contractual interest. I have two cards now which I have queried the amount of redress paid and the FOS wont budge on their stance. They say that as the ppi payment is the first thing to be paid then it is not on the account for more than one month, however the amount that you were paying off the balance would have reduced the balance further if the missold ppi had not been on there! I have written to MBNA and Barclaycard about this issue but they say they have complied with the redress guidelines from the FOS. It looks as though court is the only option to recover this interest but I just wondered if anyone has been there and done it before!

Any thoughts on this or any other peoples experience would be very appreciated

Thanks

Tink

Hiya Tink

How are you?

As PF pointed out on one of my threads the way the PPI remium is added to the account each months means we are paying interest on it.

A premium paid in 2002 Barclaycard refunded 68p, s'pose there is no way forward once the fos form is signed - GRRRR

beachy

Hi Beachy,

Nice to hear from you - long time no speak!

PPI at compound interest rate makes such a difference to the redress, the way the fos state that redress should be applied is really flawed but dont know what else we can do!

The race is still on for the bar!

Tink

i have some case law on compounded interest ill post it up this evening PF

Originally Posted by TINK660

The race is still on for the bar!

Tink

I haven't forgotten & Debenhams is still my goal!

One of my BC accounts has been settled via the fos & that damned form so its probably to late for that, fortunately the refund covered the balance outstanding - the fight with that one now is to get the Mercers invalid DN removed, it was ended while in cca/PPI dispute ( they still haven't provided the cca & the balance was wholly ppi so I think I stand a good chance.

My second card although its with the FOS I cant remember signed the form & BC have been faffing the FOS si much that I gave BC a hard time saying that if they can settle one then there should be no problem with the second.

They have made a refund, only this time I have stated I accept it in part settlement so maybe I stand a better chance of getting full interest, although again the refund cleared the outstanding balance - had the cards since '98 so there is a lot of interest charged on the ppi.

Oops - sorry Landy its your thead

Beachy

Thanks pompey - much appreciated.

Tink