Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder mogimorgan Novitiate

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    Default High Court Enforcement Officer's fees

    On 5th October 2009, a judgement for 1365.03 was made against me for unpaid rent in student halls. I was stupid to ignore all the court papers and I admit full liability for the debt.

    I am now in contact and making payments to HCE, and after much research I would like to see if I am right.

    I asked for a breakdown of the charges on my account which are as follows:

    1467.43 Judgement debt (Has jumped by 102.40 for some reason)
    101.75 Cost of Execution
    24.25 Accrued interesticon @ 0.26p a day
    546.37 Officers Fees

    2037.41 Total

    I have made 3 payments in Nov,Dec and Jan of 100 each, but after reading Schedule 3 of the High Court Enforcement Act 2004, I belive these charges do not comply.

    Before I go writing to HCE, could anyone give me any advice?

    Am I correct to believe these charges are wrong?

    Much thanks!


  2. #2
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    Default Re: High Court Enforcement Officer's fees

    Quote Originally Posted by mogimorgan View Post
    On 5th October 2009, a judgement for 1365.03 was made against me for unpaid rent in student halls. I was stupid to ignore all the court papers and I admit full liability for the debt.

    I am now in contact and making payments to HCE, and after much research I would like to see if I am right.

    I asked for a breakdown of the charges on my account which are as follows:

    1467.43 Judgement debt (Has jumped by 102.40 for some reason)
    101.75 Cost of Execution
    24.25 Accrued interesticon @ 0.26p a day
    546.37 Officers Fees

    2037.41 Total

    I have made 3 payments in Nov,Dec and Jan of 100 each, but after reading Schedule 3 of the High Court Enforcement Act 2004, I belive these charges do not comply.

    Which charges do you dispute and for what reason(s)?

    Before I go writing to HCE, could anyone give me any advice?

    Am I correct to believe these charges are wrong?

    Much thanks!
    PT

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  3. #3
    Basic Account Holder High Court Enforcer Novitiate

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    Default Re: High Court Enforcement Officer's fees

    What has the HCEO levied on?

    How many visits have you had?


  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder mogimorgan Novitiate

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    Default Re: High Court Enforcement Officer's fees

    The 546.37 Officers Fees, as the only costs I can see they are able to add are a maximum of 50 mileage, according to scheldule 3.

    Also the increase of 102.40 in the judgement debt.

    I had 1 visit back in November were a letter was hand deliveried as I was at work.

    I rang the officers mobile immediatly to arrange payment by installments.

    If the costs are fair, than I will accept. However I can't figure it out.


  5. #5
    Basic Account Holder High Court Enforcer Novitiate

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    Default Re: High Court Enforcement Officer's fees

    The charges will include fees under Regualtion 13, Fee 12, which is for miscellanious fees that are not provided for in the schedule.

    These may include attendance, administration, set up, debtor services and financial management fees. Each HCEO tends to charge different amounts here as it is usually based on the costs of running an HCEO office. One with 50 staff will cost more to run than one with 10 staff.

    Until you request a breakdown of the fees charged, you will not know how this is broken down.

    Personally, the fees seem pretty average in the HCEO world.

    However, these fees can be challenged by a detailed assessment in front of a Master (High Court) if you believe them to be incorrect.

    PS - remember the fees have VAT, now at 17.5%, in them too.


  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder mogimorgan Novitiate

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    Default Re: High Court Enforcement Officer's fees

    Do you mean...

    12. Miscellaneous

    "For any matter not otherwise provided for, such sum as a Master, district judge or costs judge may allow upon application."


    There has been no application for these cost though.

    I did ask them for a breakdown, and the above is how I received it within the letter.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: High Court Enforcement Officer's fees

    Quote Originally Posted by mogimorgan View Post
    Do you mean...

    12. Miscellaneous

    "For any matter not otherwise provided for, such sum as a Master, district judge or costs judge may allow upon application."


    There has been no application for these cost though.

    I did ask them for a breakdown, and the above is how I received it within the letter.
    HCE will probably confirm - there does not have to be any application for these costs. The HCEO can charge pretty much what he likes and if you object then it can go to a hearing for assessment but bear in mind the charges may well be allowed and you could leave yourself open to an application for costs by the HCEO.

    PT

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  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder twonames Novitiate

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    Default Re: High Court Enforcement Officer's fees

    Reasonable charges!


  9. #9
    Basic Account Holder High Court Enforcer Novitiate

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    Default Re: High Court Enforcement Officer's fees

    Quote Originally Posted by ploddertom View Post
    HCE will probably confirm - there does not have to be any application for these costs. The HCEO can charge pretty much what he likes and if you object then it can go to a hearing for assessment but bear in mind the charges may well be allowed and you could leave yourself open to an application for costs by the HCEO.PT
    PT is correct. It is the defendant that can apply to have the fees assessed by a Master etc.

    twonames, there is no mention of 'reasonable charges' in Fee 12. However, it would be foolish of an HCEO company to charge a fee they cannot justify. HCE Group are a large company that have several offices and many staff. The costs of running this will be reflected in their fees charged under Fee 12.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: High Court Enforcement Officer's fees

    From what I have seen, assesment hearings result in minimum success for the Debtor

    I would think you are better off paying it all off and going to small claimsicon, this way you dont have the risk of costs being awarded against you, as no costs are payable (other than minimal travel expenses, or if yoyu have behaved unreasonably - which in this case would be very hard for them to show)


    I would agree with HCE (thats a first) that Fee 12 does not state the extra charges have to be reasonable, but I feel it is there by implication via the fact every other section of Sched 3 states "reasonable fees"

    I do not agree, however, that such costs can be charged without a direct application being made prior to attempting to charge them - the statement

    "For any matter not otherwise provided for, such sum as a Master, district judge or costs judge may allow upon application."

    Seems pretty unambiguous to me

    omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium


    Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional
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  11. #11
    Basic Account Holder ohitsonlyme Novitiate

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    Default Re: High Court Enforcement Officer's fees

    I dont think that high court enforcement companies have heard of a the benefits of scale, a large company should be able to offer FAR LOWER fees as they will have staff in indian call centres or many more low paid staff carrying out the adminicon. A single HCEO will however if working alone not having all of this back up and therfore his fees would be higher however if you are not happy follow this advice

    See the thread
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...deception.html WON!!!!

    This is normally how an HCEO operates he comes along with a WPA that most of us dont sign they will present you with a statement or letter that shows that they have levied and valued something (or not as in my case and one or 2 others) at this pont they have tried to charge you fees in the region of 1000 with more to come from subsequent visits and if you are daft enough to pay it then they get away with it unless you then start the process of pursuing them
    by
    1/Ask for a Statement of costs
    2/ request a Subject access report
    3/go through it with a fine tooth comb to find all the anomolies such as visits that havent happened levies that havent taken place, valuations that havent happened etc etc etc.
    4/ complain to the police about fraud if levies or WPA not done (happycontrails /Nintendo templates are great)
    5/Wait for the police to tell you its a civil mater and then send 2nd letter to the police telling them its not and that the chief constable would be included in any action( this usualy gets them to look at it a bit more seriously)
    6/ complain to the HCEO that the fees are not as set out in regulation and send a letter before action
    7/If as in my case you were daft enough to pay all the fees they asked for as you didnt know the law File a claim in the county court for the refund of the incorrect fees and............
    8/wait for HCEO to run to the high court in an interpleader(fee assesment) hearing put in front of a master(judge) so that they can agree what should have been charged

    They do not have control of the hearing and the master does have to comply with the law SF HAVE to provide evidence of costs and visits etc this is the key to winning

    The fees that they try to get away with is miscellaneous fees under regulation 12 and this is where you need to be prepared to ask them for evidence of costs
    Another little ruse that have used is that they apply to assess the original statement of costs and then get a clever cost clerk to make figures on another sheet addup to it and the master might fall for it to a certain degree
    oh BTW he (cost clerk) quietly forgets the original money they asked for included valuations and visits that didnt happen so they dont show on sheet no 2 but the sums are still the same!!!!

    Therefore the Subject access request is vital

    If you need help in the high court I am more than willing to help you as a litigants friend
    HCEO are easy to beat in the high court and the more I get to know the the more confident I am knowing exactly what they are allowed to charge and the tactics they use to throw you off track.

    They are very skilled at what they do and you need to be wary of those tactics
    In my case they are hiding behind a no further action against the HCEO that the master ordered but this is not good enough to stop me from continuing to pile on the pressure

    All of the above of course is assuming that you are the victim of an officer of the the crown(HCEo)overcharging you and we all know that he/she wouldnt do that to you dont we??

    I dont know how to beat them by not paying other than sh..t..g yourself at every knock on the door, and waiting for them to get bored

    I was lucky I had started a new job and had been paid so I got rid of the agro first and then started to turn on them

    If you need help then post up and ask it is on here for you dont be afraid of them
    The boot can be on the other foot !!!!

    onlyme and many many more the number of cases is growing daily!!!!

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  12. #12
    Basic Account Holder lets fight bailiffs Novitiate

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    Default Re: High Court Enforcement Officer's fees

    Quote Originally Posted by ohitsonlyme View Post
    I dont think that high court enforcement companies have heard of a the benefits of scale, a large company should be able to offer FAR LOWER fees as they will have staff in indian call centres or many more low paid staff carrying out the adminicon. A single HCEO will however if working alone not having all of this back up and therfore his fees would be higher however if you are not happy follow this advice

    See the thread
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...deception.html WON!!!!

    This is normally how an HCEO operates he comes along with a WPA that most of us dont sign they will present you with a statement or letter that shows that they have levied and valued something (or not as in my case and one or 2 others) at this pont they have tried to charge you fees in the region of 1000 with more to come from subsequent visits and if you are daft enough to pay it then they get away with it unless you then start the process of pursuing them
    by
    1/Ask for a Statement of costs
    2/ request a Subject access report
    3/go through it with a fine tooth comb to find all the anomolies such as visits that havent happened levies that havent taken place, valuations that havent happened etc etc etc.
    4/ complain to the police about fraud if levies or WPA not done (happycontrails /Nintendo templates are great)
    5/Wait for the police to tell you its a civil mater and then send 2nd letter to the police telling them its not and that the chief constable would be included in any action( this usualy gets them to look at it a bit more seriously)
    6/ complain to the HCEO that the fees are not as set out in regulation and send a letter before action
    7/If as in my case you were daft enough to pay all the fees they asked for as you didnt know the law File a claim in the county court for the refund of the incorrect fees and............
    8/wait for HCEO to run to the high court in an interpleader(fee assesment) hearing put in front of a master(judge) so that they can agree what should have been charged

    They do not have control of the hearing and the master does have to comply with the law SF HAVE to provide evidence of costs and visits etc this is the key to winning

    The fees that they try to get away with is miscellaneous fees under regulation 12 and this is where you need to be prepared to ask them for evidence of costs
    Another little ruse that have used is that they apply to assess the original statement of costs and then get a clever cost clerk to make figures on another sheet addup to it and the master might fall for it to a certain degree
    oh BTW he (cost clerk) quietly forgets the original money they asked for included valuations and visits that didnt happen so they dont show on sheet no 2 but the sums are still the same!!!!

    Therefore the Subject access request is vital

    If you need help in the high court I am more than willing to help you as a litigants friend
    HCEO are easy to beat in the high court and the more I get to know the the more confident I am knowing exactly what they are allowed to charge and the tactics they use to throw you off track.

    They are very skilled at what they do and you need to be wary of those tactics
    In my case they are hiding behind a no further action against the HCEO that the master ordered but this is not good enough to stop me from continuing to pile on the pressure

    This protection only stands if the HCEO has done nothing wrong
    I have an order in my hands that states even if the HCEO has been given this protection you can still sue him.

    All of the above of course is assuming that you are the victim of an officer of the the crown(HCEo)overcharging you and we all know that he/she wouldnt do that to you dont we??

    I dont know how to beat them by not paying other than sh..t..g yourself at every knock on the door, and waiting for them to get bored

    I was lucky I had started a new job and had been paid so I got rid of the agro first and then started to turn on them

    If you need help then post up and ask it is on here for you dont be afraid of them
    The boot can be on the other foot !!!!

    onlyme and many many more the number of cases is growing daily!!!!
    LFB



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