Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
I am just about to put in a claim at Moneyclaim.gov against Natwest.
Here is the story so far:
I didn't ask for my statements as I am in possession of the originals.
On 30/11/05 a £30 charge took my account overdrawn.
This meant that I could not pay a d/d for £12.45 and a Natwest loan payment of £47.34 in the same month as Natwest required me to pay off the outstanding unauthorised overdraft before I could make any payments on my loan. My Overdraft limit is set at nil.
Like a fool I ignored the problem for several months as the charges built up and up at roughly £65 per month until they contacted me asking for payment of the overdraft and my outstanding loan payments. I agreed on the phone at the time to pay by 01/06/06 and on 01/03/06 I made a payment of £50 to 're-activate my dormant account' and as a gesture of goodwill. This payment has not shown up on my statements.
I failed to clear the outstanding by the 01/06/06 due to lack of money AND because by then I
had found out about the whole issue of illegal/unfair charges and had started the action
below:
-On the 3rd May 2006 I sent the preliminary leter asking for £757.03 to be refunded for various charges over the last 4 years.
Natwest refused payment.
As mentioned above I failed to clear my overdraft/loan payments and consequently spoke on the phone several times with Natwest about my account when they contacted me around the 1st of June asking for money. In one call they were just about to offer a settlement figure for the account but I ran out of credit on my phone and that was that. On another occaision they
tried to get me to agree to a payment to show my good will that would leave my "concern"/claim open and available to follow up. I declined to make a payment fearing that it would affect my claim.
On the 10th of July I sent the letter before action giving 14 days notice of a claim asking, again, for £1100.86 as by that point the charges had grown on my account.
Natwest contacted me on the phone later that week asking for money and claimed that they had not recieved the LBA. Royal Mail's tracking system says that the letter was delivered. The lady I spoke to repeatedly tried to get money from me then and there and kept trying to get me to agree to things. When I said that I thought it best to continue all communications in writing she got very rude and said she was defaulting my account and handing it to their collections dept in Birmingham.
I then recieved then following 3 letters, all dated 03/08/06:
Letter 1:
Formal notice of intention to file a default and to take action to recover debt
Asking me to return all cheque books/cards etc.
Letter 2:
Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974
This relates to the unauthorised overdraft on my account and demands payment in full of £862.56 by 17/08/06 or the overdraft agreement will be terminated. I assume that as I have an overdraft limit of nil that this means they will close the account. As far as I am concerned it was a bank charge that took me overdrawn in the first place and I haven't touched the account since so the entire £862.56 is illegal charges.
Letter 3:
Default Notice served under Sections 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974
This asks for the arrears of £281.38 on my Natwest Loan to be paid by 17/08/06 or they will
demand the total outstanding amount of £802.12
In my opinion, because Natwest always wanted full payment of the outstanding overdraft before they would accept any payments on my loan and considering that my overdraft is entirely made up of charges I believe that it is the unfair charges and Natwests demands that have made me unable to make my loan payments. Up until this situation I have been paying them regularly.
I am very worried by these letters.
The charges previous to 30/11/05 (when this present situation began) amounted to £391.85.
When this is added to the £862.56 of charges that make up my overdraft this makes £1254.41
This figure obviously cancels out my 'overdraft' and pays the arrears on my loan payments
leaving £110.47 which I would be happy to go towards the remainder of my loan.
I would gratefully recieve any advice!
I am terrified that the bailliffs will arrive. More so because the address on the account is my parents' address.
*I am about to make a claim in the courts for my charges. Is this the best thing to do in my situation?*
*Is there anyway to change the address on the account to my current address at this late stage?*
*Can the bank/credit agency come looking for either my 'overdraft or the outstanding amount on my loan while it is under dispute?*
I have not started the claim at moneyclaim yet. This is due to lack of funds for the fees and my own confusion at my situation.
I posted about this last week but my thread was deleted. I assume that it was because I hadn't started a proper thread about my particular case so I hope this fulfills all requirements.
Can anyone help?
Thank you so much for taking the time to read this.
Cheers
Joe x
I am about to send this letter to Natwest on the advice of the very helpful people here. Anyone got any thoughts?
Collections Centre, Birmingham
PO Box 5433
Birmingham
B1 2WZ
Dear Sir/Madam
I am writing to inform you of an address change. All correspondence should now be sent to:
[details]
Any previous addresses are invalid as from the date of this letter.
I would also like to point out that as my account ******** is in dispute please do not make
any attempt to take me to court for recovery of the 'outstanding overdraft' as I am claiming
that it is entirely made up of unlawful charges as pointed out in previous correspondence.
Regarding the loan account ******** I feel I have made efforts to attempt to make payments
on the account including a £50 goodwill payment on 01/03/06. Whenever I have attempted to
make any other payments (by phone) I have been told that unless I clear the entire amount
outstanding (loan and overdraft) then it would not be possible to make smaller payments on
my loan. I would like to take this opportunity to make my position clear:
I am more than happy to be making payments on my loan. It is only the fact that you have
always required me to pay my overdraft off first that has stopped me. I simply don't have
that much money and as stated above, I dispute the validity of the overdraft amount. I would
be happy send you cheques from a seperate account to make my loan payments of £47.34 per
month if we can come to an arrangement to clear the outstanding payments of £281.38 maybe by
adjusting my monthly payments? As a gesture of my willingness to do this I enclose a cheque
for £10 made pyable to 'Natwest'. I will continue to send £10 per month until an agreement
regarding this loan account ******** is reached.
Collections Centre, Birmingham
PO Box 5433
Birmingham
B1 2WZ
Dear Sir/Madam
I am writing to inform you of an address change. All correspondence should now be sent to:
[details]. All further discussions regarding both my accounts will be in writing only. I am not prepared to discuss the matter by telephone.
Any previous addresses are invalid as from the date of this letter.
I would also like to point out that as my account ******** is in dispute please do not make
any attempt to take me to court for recovery of the 'outstanding overdraft' as I am claiming
that it is entirely made up of unlawful charges as pointed out in previous correspondence.
Regarding the loan account ******** I feel I have made efforts to attempt to make payments
on the account including a £50 goodwill payment on 01/03/06. Whenever I have attempted to
make any other payments (by phone) I have been told that unless I clear the entire amount
outstanding (loan and overdraft) then it would not be possible to make smaller payments on
my loan. I would like to take this opportunity to make my position clear:
I am more than happy to be making payments on my loan. It is only the fact that you have
always required me to pay my overdraft off first that has stopped me. I simply don't have
that much money and as stated above, I dispute the validity of the overdraft amount. I would
be happy send you cheques from a seperate account to make my loan payments of £47.34 per
month if we can come to an arrangement to clear the outstanding payments of £281.38 maybe by
adjusting my monthly payments? As a gesture of my willingness to do this I enclose a cheque
for £10 made pyable to 'Natwest'. I will continue to send £10 per month until an agreement
regarding this loan account ******** is reached.
Thank you for your time.
Joseph Carlo
I would also make clear that any money they receive from you is to go towards paying the loan off only and must not be used to satisfy the overdraught. If you can afford it I would pay the £47.34 each month specifically to the loan. I have highlighted a word that I would delete from the letter.
BEFORE starting your claim read through the FAQ's and if there's something you aren't sure of then ask.
If you win, donate to this site
Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions, some formed by personal experience and some from research. If in doubt seek qualified legal advice.
Collections Centre, Birmingham
PO Box 5433
Birmingham
B1 2WZ
Dear Sir/Madam
I am writing to inform you of an address change. All correspondence should now be sent to:
[details]
Any previous addresses are invalid as from the date of this letter.
I would also like to point out that as my account ******** is in dispute please do not make
any attempt to take me to court for recovery of the 'outstanding overdraft' as I am claiming
that it is entirely made up of unlawful charges as pointed out in previous correspondence.
Regarding the loan account ******** I feel I have made efforts to attempt to make payments
on the account including a £50 payment on 01/03/06, ( I assume this went on to my loan
account as it didn't show up on my current account statements). Whenever I have attempted to
make any other payments (by phone) I have been told that unless I clear the entire amount
outstanding (loan and overdraft) then it would not be possible to make smaller payments on
my loan. I would like to take this opportunity to make my position clear:
I am more than happy to be making payments on my loan. It is only the fact that you have
always required me to pay my overdraft off first that has stopped me. I simply don't have
that much money and as stated above, I dispute the validity of the overdraft amount. I would
be happy send you cheques from a seperate account to make my loan payments of £47.34 per
month if we can come to an arrangement to clear the outstanding payments of £281.38 maybe by
adjusting my monthly payments? As a gesture of my willingness to do this I enclose a cheque
for £10 made payable to 'Natwest'. I will then be sending cheques for £47.34 per month (the
original loan installment amount) on the 1st of every month until an agreement regarding
this loan account ******** is reached. I wish to make it clear that these payments are to go
to my loan account and NOT towards servicing my 'overdraft'. Please can you confirm in
writing who I should make these cheques payable to in order that they go towards paying off
my loan.
Can you change:
would also like to point out that as my account ******** is in dispute please do not make
any attempt to take me to court for recovery of the 'outstanding overdraft' as I am claiming
that it is entirely made up of unlawful charges as pointed out in previous correspondence.
To:
May I request that whilst my account ********* is in dispute you formally hold off from any legal action at recovery until this matter has been resolved. The overdraft is entirely made up of unlawful bank charges as I have raised to your attention in previous correspondance.
srfrench
Fight incompetance, stupidity, greed and unfairness......There's no excuse and no place for it in society, unless they really are!
That should work, I got a similair letter pointing out that my O/D was getting bigger with no payments forthcoming, they said I had to do something about it within 7 days. I replied in a similar fashion, the texts below might be of use to you:
FSA position on account closures and default charges
Generally, under FSA rules on dispute resolution and complaints, we would not expect any regulated firm to discriminate against a customer who makes a complaint.
However the relationship between a bank and its account holders, including the circumstances and manner in which accounts are closed, is governed by the Banking Code.
We have therefore raised this issue with the Banking Code Standards Board, and informed those firms involved that we have done so. As a result of those conversations, we understand that the Banking Code Standards Board intends to state its position on this issue presently. We encourage the industry to use this opportunity to demonstrate the value of the Code in ensuring fair and reasonable outcomes to such disputes.
and:
as the account is officially `in dispute`, it is unreasonable to make demands for repayment of this overdraft and to threaten me with termination of my relationship with the bank.
May I remind you that under section 13.6 of the Banking Code, Natwest may not give information to Credit Reference Agencies if monies are in dispute, which they clearly are.
also phone the complaints line, they are helpful and non judgemental, so that they have your complaint on record.
That was several weeks ago, not a peep from them since.
Thanks to everyone who has posted in the last few days. I've been away working so have not had a chance to reply to you. Busy filling out my N1 now so I'm off to carry on with that.
I'll let you all know how it goes by posting here.
Are the character/line limitations the same when you hand in a physical N1 as they are when you do it at money claim? (For the 'particulars of claim section)
I've just put in a claim against Abbey and I need to do one against Natwest pretty sharpish (see previous posts..) but I am asking them to remove defaults too so it is more complicated. The one against Abbey barely fitted the restraints while only just managing to ask for the money!
Collections Centre, Birmingham
PO Box 5433
Birmingham
B1 2WZ
Dear Sir/Madam
I am writing to inform you of an address change. All correspondence should now be sent to:
Joseph Carlo
Unit 28
502 Hornsey RD
London
N19 4EF
07813 966 818
Any previous addresses are invalid as from the date of this letter.
May I request that whilst my account xxxxxxxx is in dispute you formally hold off from any legal action at recovery until this matter has been resolved. The overdraft is entirely made up of unlawful bank charges as I have raised to your attention in previous correspondance.
Regarding the loan account xxxxxxxx I feel I have made efforts to attempt to make payments on the account including a £50 payment on 01/03/06, ( I assume this went on to my loan account as it didn't show up on my current account statements). Whenever I have attempted to make any other payments (by phone) I have been told that unless I clear the entire amount outstanding (loan and overdraft) then it would not be possible to make smaller payments on my loan. I would like to take this opportunity to make my position clear:
I am more than happy to be making payments on my loan. It is only the fact that you have always required me to pay my overdraft off first that has stopped me. I simply don't have that much money and as stated above, I dispute the validity of the overdraft amount. I would be happy send you cheques from a seperate account to make my loan payments of £47.34 per month if we can come to an arrangement to clear the outstanding payments of £281.38 maybe by adjusting my monthly payments? As a gesture of my willingness to do this I enclose a cheque for £10 made payable to 'Natwest'. I will then be sending cheques for £47.34 per month (the original loan installment amount) on the 1st of every month until an agreement regarding this loan account xxxxxxx is reached. I wish to make it clear that these payments are to go to my loan account and NOT towards servicing my 'overdraft'. Please can you confirm in writing who I should make these cheques payable to in order that they go towards paying off my loan.
Thank you for your time.
Joseph Carlo
A lady phoned claiming that she wasn't clear on what I was saying in the letter.
She mentionewd stuff about paying off the overdraft and the loan and the arrears and the account being passed to credit management services dept to work out a different payment plan etc.
I reiterated some of the things i had put in the letter but tried very hard not to say anything new. ( i don't think i did).
I said again that i had previously tried to make payments on the loan but had always been asked to clear the ovewrdraft first before i could do that. she agreed with this and said that the loan, the (illegal)overdraft, and the arrears on my loan payments were all the same debt.
I told her to put what she had said in writing. She said she would.
SHe reminded me that at some point the account/s WOULD get passed to credit management services, i said I understood.
Right at the end she asked if i still wanted her to put the cheque for £10 through, i said yes.
That's about it I think.
Have i mucked up? Is it ok? What are they doing with that phone call when I have clearly asked all correspondence be in writing.
Oh, she also claimed that she had no knowledge of any previous letters (the ones about the charges etc) as they had gone to customr relations.
Any thoughts? I'm a tad nervous...
I still haven;t filed my claim at the courts yet due to lack of funds. Hopefully in the next couple of days...
Customer relations unit have a separate notes to system to the one most branch staff see, as they may be dealing with a sensitive issue, for example, a customer accusing a member of staff of theft. Now obviously only CRU should see those notes because their job is to determine whether further action should be taken and a response to the customer. You can see why they would have a separate notes system with the example given. With the charges issue, the other reason is so branch staff who may have an initial point of contact, do not see the outcome of any intial letter sent. DPA/SAR letters should be acknowledged by phone preferably. That is a set process of NW.
So I finally have the cash to put in my claim against Natwest, here is my proposed particulars of claim, any comments would be helpful.
I am asking them to rmove defaults against my name so I have to do a physical N1 at the court. Does anyone know if the same character count and line count apply to hand filled in forms? The text below comes in 'over budget'. Does that matter?
"I have a contract with the defendant
National Westminster Bank PLC which is conducted on their
standard terms and conditions. I claim the
return of money taken by the defendant in
the way of charges over the last 4 yrs plus
the interest they have levied on those
charges. These charges are a disproportionate
penalty and therefore unenforceable as they
are contrary to common law. Further, as a
disproportionate penalty they are invalid
under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977
s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer
Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and
sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges
are not a penalty then they are unreasonable
within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and
Services Act 1982 s.15. I asked the bank to
justify their charges but they have declined
to do so. I claim interest under section 69
of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of
8% a year from 01/10/2002 to 29/08/2006 of
£84.26 and also interest at the same rate up
to the date of judgment or earlier payment at
a daily rate of 0.022%. In addition I request
the defendant REMOVES all default entries
against my name”
I am writing a 'financial statement' of my situation regarding paying back my creditors, (two parking tickets and a benefit overpayment from years ago), to send to the people I owe in order to offer a settlement instalment figure to each of them.
I am doing this based on the advice given at the Citizens Advice Bureau's website here:
I am just about to make a claim against Natwest to reclaim bank charges for the last 4years which have currently caused me to have an unarranged overdraft of several hundred pounds entirely made of charges.
I ALSO have a loan with Natwest that I have failed to make payments on since December 2005 due to Natwest always wanting me to clear the charges/overdraft before making any payments on the loan.
Last week I sent a letter saying that I was going to start making payments again by sending them cheques. At least I'm trying then, they can cash them if they want to. I'm guessing they will.
My Questions are this:
1 - Disregarding the charges and consequent overdraft, Should I send them the 'financial statement' I am sending my other creditors and try to get a realistic payment plan with them to clear the outstanding on the old loan?
2 - Will it affect the claim I am about to make for the charges?
Note: I would not include the OVERDRAFT figure on my 'financial statement' as I contest that I don;t owe the money asit is entirely charges.
It's been a long time since my last thread so here's an update.
Basically I am no further along with my claim due to a lack of money to file my N1 form.
I sent another letter informing Natwest that unless I recieved full settlement in 14 days I would be starting a claim but then, as I just said, I couldn't do it because of lack of funds.
A brief synopsis...
--I am claiming roughly £1500 in charges from the last 6 years.
--I currently have an overdraft of roughly £1000 (my overdraft limit is £0) that is entirely made up of bank charges.
--Until recently I was roughly £400 in arrears to Natwest for a personal loan that I had been unable to pay because Natwest refused to take any payments towards it until I had settled the unarranged overdraft (which I repeatedly refused to do due to it all being bank charges). I was advised (see above) to offer to make payments and make it clear that anything I send was to go to the loan account and then just send them anyway, disregarding their attempt to make me pay off the overdraft first. I sent a couple of small amounts (all I could afford at the time) but then recently my work accidentally paid a £400 paycheque into Natwest. Although at the time I was furious it actually helps me out as now I am very close to clearing the overdue loan payments. I am sending a letter today to retrospectively ensure that this £400 pounds goes towards paying my loan account.
-- I recieved letters a while ago (previous to the above amount being paid in) asking me to settle before 11/11/06 (Friday just past). I obviously have not given them any money other than the above payment.
-- For the last couple of days (ON A SUNDAY TOO!) Natwest have been trying to contact me by phone. I can only assume it's to tell me what a bad boy I am and to threaten action etc.
-- I am hoping to be able to afford the court costs sometime this week in order to start my claim.
Does anyone have any ideas what might happen now?
I figure I just sit tight until I can afford to take them to court. I have almost paid off what I owe them in backdated loan payments so technically, even though they claim I have a huge unarranged overdraft, this is entirely made of bankcharges so actually, together with the previous years' charges, they owe me right? So if they want to take me to court should I just let them and make a counter claim?
Any thoughts or advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks.
Jojosnack v Natwest **WON**
.
. This payment has not shown up on my statements.
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by jojosnack
N1 form query
:-|
Re: Jojosnack vs Natwest
