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Hi, I wonder if anyone could help, I am currently in the middle of a disciplinary process but am wondering if there has been a breech in procedure by the company I work for, the situation that I find odd is at the "informal" meeting which I attended a series of allegations were made against me which would constitute gross misconduct, half way through the meeting my managers manager (both were present) handed me a copy of an anonymous letter which alleged all sorts of illegal activity. They asked me my opinion of the letter and then said they considered the letter inadmissable and or irrelevant. At the conclusion of the meeting I was asked to leave the room which I did for 17 minutes, on my return to the room I was presented with a letter informing me of my suspension, the letter was allegedly written by my manager. I suppose what I am asking is can the hearing be halted on the grounds of the manager(s) prejudging the outcome of the meeting, I know my manager didn't write the letter as my name was horribly mis-spelt, it is my beleif that the letter had been pre prepared, I have asked under the freedom of information act for all data relating to me to see if the letter was pre done.
One month and a day later I am still suspended and it's getting me down.
Did you receive prior written notice of this 'informal meeting?
Was it refered to as an 'investigatory meeting'?
Do you have a written statement of the particulars of employment?
Are there written disciplinary and grievance procedures in place at you workplace? An HR Dept?
Did you receive prior written notice of this 'informal meeting?
Was it refered to as an 'investigatory meeting'?
Do you have a written statement of the particulars of employment?
Are there written disciplinary and grievance procedures in place at you workplace? An HR Dept?
Hi,
Thanks for the reply, no I did not receive a written notice, it was a phone call from my manager who "advised me as a mate" that I should attend, and as I didn't fear the meeting I attended (Of course I now know that was the wrong thing to do) The meeting was originally a formal meeting as thats what my manager told me, but when I challenged this as no informal meeting had taken place it was changed to an informal meeting (Of course this is the crux of the issue, how at an informal meeting can a formal letter of suspension be given to me) The company does have a written disciplinary proceedure and they have clearly breeched it, I suppose that breech will be explored at an unfair dismissal tribunal later down the line, what I wanted to know was can the whole thing be stopped on the grounds of my company failing to adhere to their own policy and I suppose employment law, not that I fear any hearing as I don't believe there can be any evidence but my reputation is taking one hell of a battering. The current situation is that the company have concluded the investigation and I am waiting to see if they will proceed to disciplinary, I believe that they will as they are looking to downsize, and this seems to be an easy way of getting me off the books.
I'd request a copy of the company's D&G procedure if you don't have a copy already.
Then I'd put in a formal grievance regarding how this matter has been approached and send it to whoever is above both these guys. (HR Dept?)
A warning shot across the bows at this point might warn them off.
If they do proceed to full disciplinary regarding the matter, insist you are provided with all relevant evidence prior to any hearing.
Make sure you take a representative with you to the hearing, and at the end of the hearing demand a copy of any notes taken. If hand-written, demand photocopies.
Thanks for the advice mate, it's much appreciated, the noises I am hearing are that they will go to trbunal if necessary as they have made far too much of this issue to just allow me to walk back to work, so I guess I will see them in court.
Well whatever you do, exhaust all D&G avenues before thinking of the tribunal route-
either they dismiss you, and then after an appeal (if unsuccessful) you take it to ET.
or you persue a grievance against them as far as it will go within the company.
Don't think about just quitting and then trying to claim constructive dismissal.
Such claims are notoriously difficult to win at the best of times, if you walk out you've burnt your bridges completely.
Yes i'm on full pay, I have heard nothing other than a registered letter instructing me to attend a formal investigation, then a second letter asking me to attend for "further investigations" Both of which I attended, the company will say it's a complex investigation I suppose.
I have no intention of waliking away from it, I would not give them the satisfaction. My rep reckons the company have very little to go on and have been hoping for something to pop out of the woodwork, but as I have answered all the questions put to me and managed to explain away any anomilies he thinks they may be stuck, or waiting for any ongoing police investigation to be complete, I don't fear the police on this matter as I have done no wrong in my view. I await the next move with interest, it may be that they are trying to get the author of the anon letter to whistleblow as it is widely known who he is, I hope he does because the content of it is so innaccurate you would have thought it had been penned about Attila the hun.
can you elaborate on what the accusations against you are?
Keep in contact with your employer, have they communicated with you as to just how long you might be suspended?
The accusations relate to a remote outstation that was being used for illegal activity, either growing or storing illegal substances and also being used as a garage inappropriately, this created a problem for me in as much as I had some stuff stored in the same place, my stuff had been in there for a number of years, i'm not sure if there is anything more specific than that. The company have now concluded the investigation and as far as I am aware a senior manager has looked at the evidence and will be taking a decision on going to disciplinary imminently. I have had no contact with the company other than the letters sent to me regarding investigation meetings and the meetings themselves so I have no idea how much longer my suspension will last.
The accusations relate to a remote outstation that was being used for illegal activity, either growing or storing illegal substances and also being used as a garage inappropriately, this created a problem for me in as much as I had some stuff stored in the same place, my stuff had been in there for a number of years, i'm not sure if there is anything more specific than that. The company have now concluded the investigation and as far as I am aware a senior manager has looked at the evidence and will be taking a decision on going to disciplinary imminently. I have had no contact with the company other than the letters sent to me regarding investigation meetings and the meetings themselves so I have no idea how much longer my suspension will last.
Thanks for the replies to my earlier thread, "prejudgement" I now am in receipt of a letter instructing me to attend a disciplinary hearing, my next question is what level or proof are the company required to have?
ie: is it enough that the company produce a letter from a witness alleging misconduct? Do I get chance to cross examine anyone? The letter says it the company will use "witness statements" and a summary sheet. Any further help will be greatly appreciated.
So have they provided you with the evidence?
Witness statements etc?
They should provide you with all evidence they intend to rely on prior to the hearing.
The problem with employment law is that employers don't have to establish the same level of proof as in criminal law.
It doesn't have to be 'Beyond all reasonable doubt'.
An accusation can be held to be valid merely on the balance of probability- 'It's more likely the case than not'.
They do need to have some evidence though.
I suppose it all comes down to the individual circumstances.
So have they provided you with the evidence?
Witness statements etc?
They should provide you with all evidence they intend to rely on prior to the hearing.
The problem with employment law is that employers don't have to establish the same level of proof as in criminal law.
It doesn't have to be 'Beyond all reasonable doubt'.
An accusation can be held to be valid merely on the balance of probability- 'It's more likely the case than not'.
They do need to have some evidence though.
I suppose it all comes down to the individual circumstances.
In the letter they say they will supply me with all documentation, due to the nature of the allegations and the fact that I believe the company are acting on an anonymous letter if I inform the company that I will be seeking legal redress for defamation/libel will the balance of proof on them become greater? The allegations are so serious that I can't believe the police are not interested, but they are not! although the independant witness statements may be from a police officer.
I am losing the will to live with this as it could and should have been dealt with!
Have you put in a grievance about the way they've conducted this yet?
Is there someone higher up you can complain to?
With regard to the documentation, I don't know what to suggest-
Anyone?
Whether to demand that they provide you with all evidence that they intend to rely on
Or
Bank on them not providing you with any evidence prior to the hearing, and should they put anything on the table at the hearing, argue that it's inadmissable as they haven't disclosed it to you.
???
Presumably they're alleging that you're guilty of essentially criminal misconduct.
If the police are aware of this, but haven't taken any action (you know that the police aren't going to follow this matter up?), then I would have thought that that would support your defence.
As for the whole matter of libel/def...
That's really the sport of kings in legal terms, as I understand it.
Better just to be very clear that you have no intention of letting the matter go.
Make it clear that they either back down or do their worst, in which case you're more than happy to discuss the matter in the ET.
Have you put in a grievance about the way they've conducted this yet?
Is there someone higher up you can complain to?
With regard to the documentation, I don't know what to suggest-
Anyone?
Whether to demand that they provide you with all evidence that they intend to rely on
Or
Bank on them not providing you with any evidence prior to the hearing, and should they put anything on the table at the hearing, argue that it's inadmissable as they haven't disclosed it to you.
???
Presumably they're alleging that you're guilty of essentially criminal misconduct.
If the police are aware of this, but haven't taken any action (you know that the police aren't going to follow this matter up?), then I would have thought that that would support your defence.
As for the whole matter of libel/def...
That's really the sport of kings in legal terms, as I understand it.
Better just to be very clear that you have no intention of letting the matter go.
Make it clear that they either back down or do their worst, in which case you're more than happy to discuss the matter in the ET.
Your help is invaluable, and a source of a degree of comfort. I will get all the documentation prior to the disciplinary according to the letter, and I am confident I can provide answers to all the questions as thats what I have done so far, but if they choose to accept the word of people who have offered statements but I can't cross examine then I suspect I am stuffed. It hardly seems fair to me but I understand the balance of probability is down to the opinion of the person who is sitting, so it is in the lap of the gods, always assuming that management haven't pre-determined the outcome, I will be attacking them with everything I have got as I simply didn't do what they allege.
Pre judgement
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Originally Posted by elpulpo
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