Strange response to PPI claim from LTSB

**andie_303** · 19th November 2009 12:08

Hi All,

This is a strange one and something I have not come across before so am looking for some help.

I have been corresponding with Lloyds icon

on behalf of a friend to reclaim PPI icon

from 3 closed loans - all were issued PPI whilst he was self employed and he was not explained any exclusions.

So I sent the letter asking for a refund back in July - this is the response received today - now it only mentions 2 of the loans despite all 3 loans being asked to be refunded in the letter I sent them.

I'm at a loss really as to why they are not upholding a PPI complaint but are still offering payment and the reason for the payment.

Can someone with better knowledge explain what they may be up to.

I think they are trying to buy off cheaply.

**andie_303** · 19th November 2009 12:10

Oops I have no idea how to make those attachements appear as links and not thumbnails - can anyone help?

**andie_303** · 19th November 2009 16:38

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...1&d=1258645000

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...1&d=1258645000

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...1&d=1258645000

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...1&d=1258645000

sorry hopefully these can be viewed now.

**andie_303** · 19th November 2009 16:42

ok so that didn't work either god I am stupid! - bear with me

**landy_alert** · 19th November 2009 17:08

Hi Andie

Have you tried photobucket? Not that I'm an expert - I always have to get Mr L to do it for me!

Regards,

Landy x

**andie_303** · 19th November 2009 22:13

**andie_303** · 19th November 2009 22:19

yay thank god I have done it - and yes i do realise i have left a name visable but it's ok - and there is no way i am risking taking it down cos I might not get it back up again lol.

If anyone can have alook and tell me what you think its appreciated

**andie_303** · 20th November 2009 11:55

bump

**alanalana** · 20th November 2009 22:27

Originally Posted by andie_303

bump

Hello andie,

firstly they seem in their letter to be generally trying to fob you off.

They have sent a long letter I am unable to copy the letter but here are a few comments on it.

Firstly their comments "you elected to protect your risk by purchasing a "one off premium" plus interest icon

.

Now did the sales advisor go through a set number of questions called a "demands and needs questionnaire" ? if they did do you have a copy of this questionnaire ? this should show that all the correct questions were asked at the point of sale to ensure the product of PPI was in fact suitable to your needs.

If you do not have a copy you should request one and if necessary use a Subject access request icon

to get one..

Full SAR for ppi or this is another version...

Data Protection Act 1998 - Subject access request

They go on to quote the policy table and policy document.

They are IMO trying to wriggle out of any repayment and if you consider you have a solid case for claiming mis-sold PPI you should complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

The ltsb icon

letter is so full of the stuff that hits fans occassionally that IMO you should disregard it and if you have a case you should seriously consider the fos icon

who are currently upholding 90% of claims for mis-selling of PPI but in the case of LTSB I believe it is nearer 98% the FOS are upholding.

The banks will do anything to try and stop you in your tracks including sending letters that you have posted.

Bang in a claim t the FOS and watch what happens. It will take months but the evidence is your complaint if you have a valid complaint will be upheld and you will get you cash back.

Put up a fight and do not accept everything/anything the banks tell you in their letters which are aimed at preventing you claiming back Mis-sold PPI.

aa

**andie_303** · 21st November 2009 16:19

Hi AA

I'm well versed on Lloyds icon

after going at them to reclaim my PPI icon

which after 5 months I finally won.

However this is the first time I have seen them reject a complaint but offer money as a gesture of goodwill icon

that they are putting down to giving a more "favourable rate" on a PPI rebate when the loan was refinanced.

Surely if they are rebating the PPI it would be £x amount after so many days or months - how can this be done on favourable rates?

It seems very dodgy to me.

The needs and demands they supplied to my friend is completed but not signed or dated be either him or the advisor so could have basically been filed in 5 minutes before they put it in the post.

This my advice to my friend is going to be reject their offer and go to the fos icon

- even if they don't get their offer upped the FOS could at least issue compensation.

**landy_alert** · 21st November 2009 16:40

Originally Posted by andie_303

However this is the first time I have seen them reject a complaint but offer money as a gesture of goodwill icon

that they are putting down to giving a more "favourable rate" on a PPI icon

rebate when the loan was refinanced.

Surely if they are rebating the PPI it would be £x amount after so many days or months - how can this be done on favourable rates?

It seems very dodgy to me.

Hi Andie

I've just had a scan back through the paperwork both Mr L and I received from ltsb icon

earlier in the year and on both our current loans they have done exactly the same - their words are -

You have chosen to cancel your policy and a proportion of your unused insurance premium has been credited to your loan account. As detailed in the policy at the time, this rebate was based on a sliding scale due to the claims risk being greater at the beginning of the loan. However we are prepared to offer you a more favourable rebate on a pro rata basis as a gesture of goodwill on this occasion.

The rebate you received when your policy was cancelled on ***** was £***

A pro rata rebate would have amounted to £***

We would like to offer the difference of £*** to your loan account as a gesture of goodwill.'

We declined their offers and passed both complaints to the fos icon

in July. So far they have yet to resolve either complaint.

Not much help I know, but just thought I'd let you know your friend is not the only one to receive this strange reply from our friends at LTSB!

Regards,

Landy x

**alanalana** · 21st November 2009 22:24

Originally Posted by landy_alert

Hi Andie

I've just had a scan back through the paperwork both Mr L and I received from ltsb icon

earlier in the year and on both our current loans they have done exactly the same - their words are -

You have chosen to cancel your policy and a proportion of your unused insurance premium has been credited to your loan account. As detailed in the policy at the time, this rebate was based on a sliding scale due to the claims risk being greater at the beginning of the loan. However we are prepared to offer you a more favourable rebate on a pro rata basis as a gesture of goodwill on this occasion.

The rebate you received when your policy was cancelled on ***** was £***

A pro rata rebate would have amounted to £***

We would like to offer the difference of £*** to your loan account as a gesture of goodwill.'

We declined their offers and passed both complaints to the fos icon

in July. So far they have yet to resolve either complaint.

Not much help I know, but just thought I'd let you know your friend is not the only one to receive this strange reply from our friends at LTSB!

Regards,

Landy x

I find the biggest problem (now I know the scale of the PPI icon

mis-selling) is to try and respond in a civil manner after I receive letters which are full of supercillious, arrogant and platitudinous remarks. I do however respond with the odd uppercut.

aa

**andie_303** · 2nd December 2009 13:51

Hi all,

I have responded on my friends behalf asking for further explanation before sending to fos icon

- see play nice with the little horsey and see what I get before I stream roller them with their own inept paperwork (which I will show you in a minute........and it's a good un!!)

The letter I wrote was:-

Dear Tracey Thomas

Thank you for your letter dated 17th November the contents of which are noted.

Whilst you indicate through your final paragraph that this is a final response, in order for me to fully consider the proposal you have put to me I require some further clarification and therefore hope you can assist with this matter.

For ease of reference I will number the queries I have and hope you will respond using the same numerical system.

1) You respond to my complaint about the mis-selling of PPI icon

by explaining that as a self employed person I would have been entitled to all benefits of the PPI policy. Please could you send me proof of this i.e. a policy booklet from the time both loans became active as I believe this information to be misleading. I believe there are exclusions for those that are self employed, as I was at the time of the inception of the loan, and would ask that you provide written evidence that there are no such exclusions as you say in your letter.

2) You discuss a needs and demands statement of which you sent me a copy, which you allege shows that my needs and demands for the insurance products were assessed. However as you can clearly see the sales consultant that sold the policies has not completed this form fully. He has neither signed nor dated this statement.
I also have not signed this statement.
I question how you can allege needs and demands have been properly assessed with the sales person has not signed the form to indicate he has done so? Could you please explain this to me?

3) I would also ask that you send a more detailed explanation as to why the initial rebate of PPI you gave on these loans was significantly less than the amount you are now offering? There is also no mention of any interest icon

being added to this figure to compensate for the time you have benefited from money that you seemingly indicate should have been rebated at the time.

Upon receipt of this information I will then consider whether to accept any offer made by Lloyds icon

TSB or to further this matter either to the Financial Ombudsman Service or county court icon

.

I trust as this matter has been ongoing for a number of months you will respond in a timely fashion

**andie_303** · 2nd December 2009 14:52

and here is they needs and demands which they say complies with FSA guidlines and they say has accurately assessed the needs and demands of my friend.

I apologise for the quality but I kid you not that is the quality of the copy they have sent.

As you can see this is basically a pro forma letter - I imagine it says the same for everyone - they have typed his name and address at the top which I have removed and this is the only way of it being identifed as "his".

As I highlighted to them it is not signed or dated by my friend to confirm he accepts the contents nor is it signed by the advisor.

If I was a cynic I would think that they have knocked this up about 5 mins before the letter was put in the post.

This surely cannot be FSA compliant to show they have assessed an INDIVIDUALS needs and demands!

**landy_alert** · 2nd December 2009 16:09

Hi Andie

I would definitely agree that this 'demands and needs' doc is hardly designed to be customer specific. I would be very interested to know if there are FSA guidelines/compliancy regs for such docs, as we have a very similar one from our former mortgage icon

co. No way does it address the specific demands and needs of the customer, which surely is its purpose? Looks like another ltsb icon

cop-out!

Great letter, by the way - hopefully will do the trick!

Regards,

Landy x

**andie_303** · 2nd December 2009 16:15

well here's hoping but I too would be interested as to how they can claim that constitutes a needs and demands of an individual customer.

It's basically saying

" I have told you this that and the other" - well funny cos you haven't even deemed it important enough to sign to signify you did say "this that and the other"

I'm hoping that may be the clincher but I'm going to try and look into this more and whether the FSA do infact consider that to be compliant or not.

**alanalana** · 2nd December 2009 23:33

Originally Posted by andie_303

well here's hoping but I too would be interested as to how they can claim that constitutes a needs and demands of an individual customer.

It's basically saying

" I have told you this that and the other" - well funny cos you haven't even deemed it important enough to sign to signify you did say "this that and the other"

I'm hoping that may be the clincher but I'm going to try and look into this more and whether the FSA do infact consider that to be compliant or not.

My RBS

needs and demands required me to initial all the questions asked at the time the loan was being agreed.

Sad thing for RBS they forgot to ask a few important questions such as do you have any Pre existing medical conditions

I do not believe what you have posted above can be considered to be a individual customer based document.

There should be a standard proforma with a full list of questions that have to be put to each customer covering every single thing such as:
Do you have alternative insurance cover?
Do you have cover through your employer?
Do you have any Pre existing medical conditions and if so what are they?
Have you been referred to a doctor for any condition within the last xx months?
Are you in full time employment?
Are you a student?
Are you over 18 years of age?
Are you self employed?
Are you over 65 years of age and retired?

The answers should all be noted and sent on the demands and needs questionnaire and sent to you to initial the answers as being accurate.

They can recommend all they want but unless you have signed agreeing to their recommendations their argument IMO is dead in the water.

Rant over keep on fighting ltsb icon

aa

**andie_303** · 3rd December 2009 13:21

Thanks AA To be honest as soon as I saw that sheet I knew it was game over for Lloyds icon

as there is no way they can stand by that saying they have completed an adequate needs and demands. I have also contacted the FSA to enquire as to what there requirements are to constitute a needs and demands statement. We shall see what they reply with but I think the fos icon

would have a field day with that!

**andie_303** · 3rd December 2009 13:56

this is what I have just got off the FSA website

If the sale was made with advice, the firm that sold the product should be able to demonstrate through their records the reasons why the contract they recommended suited the customer’s demands and needs at the time, and that this was made clear to the customer at the point of sale.

Demands and needs statements

When you arrange for a customer to enter into a non-investment insurance contract (including at renewal), you should issue a demands and needs statement to your customer. The statement should:

• set out what the customer wants from the product (their demands and needs);
• confirm whether you personally recommended the contract;
• where a personal recommendation is made, it should explain the reasons for the recommendation;
• if no advice is being given, this should be clearly stated on the statement with a generic statement confirming what the product selected will offer the customer; and
• the document should clearly reflect what was discussed.
It is important not to overcomplicate the letter or statement. Whatever level of service you offer your customers, your documentation should be in plain language and clearly explain the level of service you
are providing.
The customer should be provided with information that enables them to understand:
• the type of product they have bought;
• whether they have received advice or are basing their purchase solely on their own interpretation of the information with which they have been provided; and
• whether their individual needs and circumstances have been taken into account.

**andie_303** · 3rd December 2009 14:04

Now Lloyds icon

state on their needs and demands a few times they are RECOMMENDING a product so this is an advised sale yet I cannot see any proof on this form of them taking into account individual needs and circumstances.

There is just the small paragraph on the last page that says they have recommended them based on other "insurance policies and personal circumstances"

Hmmmm very individual and clear as mud - what exactly have the assessed with relation to insurance policies and personal circumstances and they don't indicate on the form??

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