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Been reading this site getting really useful information with my problem with my car.
To put you in the picture I was looking for a used car on the net, and got lucky found a model I liked from a dealer. Only problem was car was several hundred miles away! Made arrangements to travel down, suffering the cost and journey and it seemed a good car- it was ex-manufacturer, 1 year old, neat and tidy and just serviced- perfect I thought- so we bought it.
Took it back and survived the drive back up the M6 in a new car. Unfortunatly 3 days later and after the first bit of prolonged rain we found water in the car. Not a great start. Then 6 days after buying it I turn on the car and the electrics go haywire, warning lights on, with all dials failed as has radio. Phoned the dealer we bought it from who to be honest apologised but really didn't want much to do with it- wasn't like that when we sold it and it's got a warranty- it will get fixed was the jist. They however said whilst it was unrealistic to bring it back to them for repairs (wrt distance) we should take it into our local franchise dealer and recommended one. We decided we'd accept that offer of repairs as upon contacting that dealer they indicated that there can be two simple to fix problems in causing those issues. It seemed the appropriate course of action to me from reading this site.
Unfortunately heard back from them that the water leak cannot as yet be traced and the electrical fault is more serious in the ECUs of the car as the simple fixes did not solve the problem. It could be 3 more days before they can get to the bottom of one or both. They are leaving it up to us as to how we wish to continue. We intend to get more information on Monday as sadly the phoned later on Friday, but it gives me time to brush up on my course of action.
I am getting increasingly uncomfortable with owning a car developing such faults- bearing in mind it is less than a fortnight since I bought it. It developed its faults within 6 days and sat unused for the next 4 days waiting to go into a dealer where it still is! If I decided I was unhappy with the car and wanted to reject for either money back/alternative, would I be entitled to do so if I took it back from the dealer with problems unfixed. If he does trace and fix problems am I still entitled to do so?
One slight complication is I live in Scotland whilst dealer is in England. Does this pose any legal issues? The other question is returning it. It would at present fail an MoT and be un-roadworthy, am I within my rights to say supplier should collect or do I have to return to supplying dealer?
I'm going to weigh up the responses as to what I do next with the car.
On the basis of what you have posted you need to be clear where the issue is. From what you have said would not necessarily be an MOT failure.
So for a start, what car, what mileage and what service history?
What are the faults exactly?
Do you think you know where the leak is?
Theoreticaly the car should still be under manufacturers warranty however, I take it you had an HPI check done first???? or it came with one.
Water leaks causing damage are not unheard of but seldom happen on cars now. However if they do happen it's usually the result of something else. Now my initial guess is that this leak has affected the body control ecu's. Is this correct?
Water leaks causing damage are not unheard of but seldom happen on cars now. However if they do happen it's usually the result of something else. Now my initial guess is that this leak has affected the body control ecu's. Is this correct?
To clear a few points up- the car has a FSH at main dealer was supplied by one- only 1 service however as it is 1 year old shade under 7K. This was done a week or so before purchase.
The exact faults are difficult to describe. Looking like a CAN failure of some sort affecting some ECUs. They are struggling to access and diagnose and I'm going to see them on this point.
The car IMHO would fail an MoT at the moment as it has no speedo, ABS warning light, brake warning light, power steering warning light and various others are remaining lit- which, correct me if I am wrong, would not be acceptable. It seems like a gremlin affecting the electronics means they are not or cannot communicate at all. However- if I flick on indicators, externally they work, internally there is no indication what so ever. The same goes for headlights.
The leak is under the boot floor/wheelarch near spare wheel well. Dealer can see the water but cannot work out what is causing it to come in. Could a leak in the rear wheelarch area affect ECUs- perhaps given rear lights in area but I'd expect a dealer to link them.
The car is still under manufacturers warranty as expected. As it was supplied through a manufacture approved scheme the car has been HPI checked- previous owner was manufacturer.
I love the car, but needing to think with head not heart on it, and perhaps I've got a bad 'un.
Ok, so on this basis it is reasonable to assume it has not had major accident repair work. If water is around connections to ECU's then CAN lines will go potty.
Need to know what car is. However, a failure in the ICD will give the same results and can lead to an incorrect diagnosis but this does not get around the water leak issue.
Ok, so on this basis it is reasonable to assume it has not had major accident repair work. If water is around connections to ECU's then CAN lines will go potty.
Need to know what car is. However, a failure in the ICD will give the same results and can lead to an incorrect diagnosis but this does not get around the water leak issue.
To be honest the water leak causes me the more concern as they can be difficult to get to the bottom of. Electrical parts can be pulled out and replaced over and over but finding water...My father has a car where it was 'solved' by dealer only to flood again- they can be a 'mare to get to the bottom of. The car was indoors when we picked it up and paid for it so even though we were soaked on the way the car was dry! Car is a Fiat Bravo.
They Are Not Very Forward In Fixing Eroors So I Would Reject It Under The Sale Of Goods Act, Get A Refund, Or Get Them To Change The Vehicle
Not Fit For Purpose
Where Is The Car Now
DID YOU GET IT FROM A MAIN DEALER
IS THE CAR AT ANOTHER MAIN DEALER, PART OF THE SAME GROUP
Got it from a main dealer.
It was too far away to return to them so on phone they said to take it to any other dealer and they told me one possibility over the other, but it isn't the same group.
You Dont Have To Take It Back To The Garage You Purchessed It From
I Would Contact The Original Garage By Phone And Tell Them You Are Returning The Vehicle Under The Sale Of Goods Act. The Vehicle Is Located At Xyz For Them To Collect And You Require Full Refund Of All Monies Paid
Then Send A Letter By Recorded Delievery Saying What You Said On The Phone
Heliosuk, just because it's a manufacturers car doesn't always mean that it has not been accident damaged. Have seen cars damaged on transporters (usually low branches and the like) and in storage compounds etc etc. When i was looking for a car on the net, a review of these sites warned that SOME cars were x manufacturer, but had been back to factory with faults which they deemed too troublesome/ expensive to fix and were sold off to the trade cheap. This review also said to check the spare wheel, tools and documents were all present and correct. In this case however,i would be suspicious that the car had lying around the manufacturers/ dealers for a year, unsold---it's a popular enough model. You know the story with my car!!
A pickle years ago a story did the rounds that several brand new Golfs had to be completely resprayed because some yobs had lamped a few cans of paint over a compound wall behind which the Golfs were stored. A right bloody mess by all accounts.
Reject the car immediately under the sale of goods act. The car is unfit for the purpose bought. It will likely develop further faults down the line as the result of water ingress.
What is the scenario if dealer comes back to me and states that they have 'fixed' it. Do I still have rights to reject under SOGA?
Would I then have to use manufacturers 'if not satisfied exchange within 30 days'?
Heliosuk, just because it's a manufacturers car doesn't always mean that it has not been accident damaged. Have seen cars damaged on transporters (usually low branches and the like) and in storage compounds etc etc. When i was looking for a car on the net, a review of these sites warned that SOME cars were x manufacturer, but had been back to factory with faults which they deemed too troublesome/ expensive to fix and were sold off to the trade cheap. This review also said to check the spare wheel, tools and documents were all present and correct. In this case however,i would be suspicious that the car had lying around the manufacturers/ dealers for a year, unsold---it's a popular enough model. You know the story with my car!!
A pickle years ago a story did the rounds that several brand new Golfs had to be completely resprayed because some yobs had lamped a few cans of paint over a compound wall behind which the Golfs were stored. A right bloody mess by all accounts.
True to a certain extent Mr Scaniaman however fundamental fault in post is that what are termed "buy backs" are not done as too expensive to fix but because of customer disatisfaction and the money involved is secondary as the customer will still not be happy. To a greater extent, this is an honourable and face saving thing to do but does not excuse the fact that a problem cannot be fixed. Given todays manufacturing techniques the occurance of said situation is becoming rare however the problem is that dealers are frankly not geared up to it or employ staff with the knowledge required to get to the root cause and fix it.
In this case the car has to be ex manufacturer as supposedly shows on the log book. If it was a buy back then the original owners name would be on the book. The car has also been used as has 7K miles on it. In this case it should show Fiat UK so could have been an employee lease car or even pool car.
Current owner enjoys the car so why not let the Fiat dealers be given an opportunity to fix the issue and show what they can ( or will probably be not) do!
Personally, I'd write to Fiat the supplying dealer, repairing dealer and state they I'm in the process of rejecting the car but recognise Fiat need an opportunity to repair and need some serious puckering up in the mean time to appease me.
I've seen this situation many times before on greater marques and if handled correctly can deliver great results and keep the custome happy. Seems like the trouble is that the Manufacturers customer services don't know how to handle technical complaints.
Appreciate this but as I pointed out " 'am in the process of rejecting the car". Log this and it's a starting point.
If the dealer refused and it went to court and a defence of "we were never given the opportunity to fully investigate and rectify the issue" where's that going to go. It's not a new car!
Don't tarnish all dealers until you have the facts. Yes, on the face of it it might be a lemon but the fact remains, the supplying dealer cannot be reasonably given the opportunity to repair so the manufacturers representative dealer has to do this and this is where things need to be clear. The whole idea about manufacturers warranty is that nobody makes money out of it.
Another interesting fact about this post is that the OP actually seems to understand CAN, ECU's etc and waterleaks in cars.
I appreciate the comments guys. Whilst I understand what Helios is saying in giving the dealer and manufacturer time to give me great CS think the time is passing if not passed for that.
Whilst I like the vehicle I have no confidence in this particular car any more- and would get shot before warranty was up anyway despite of the cost . I cannot trust it- the only thing to appease me is an agreeable refund or exchange- I shudder to think the cost of this if out of warranty- I certainly could not afford it.
I spoke to the supplying dealer a week ago registering my dissatisfaction with the vehicle. I was told that the warranty would cover and to take it to a dealer near me, they would do it if I was closer but any Fiat dealer was good even specifying one dealer group over another.
I have kept my end of the bargain, made an appointment and the car sat un-used from the problem occurring to the garage seeing it. I've given this Fiat dealer full opportunity to investigate and rectify faults. The car has been with them since Thursday Afternoon and we are no further forward in all honesty. All we know is that there is a fault in the CAN system somewhere which is fairly serious and a waterleak from an unknown point. That could have been found out on Thursday in under an hour- we do not know exactly what is causing both issues despite a Fiat main dealer's master technician having a real go at it. I don't think the Fiat dealer could, if it got to court, reasonably say that they have had not had fair chance to repair.
The dealer I sold it from was a decent enough dealer. However there comes a time when the head has to take over. The cars been out of action for longer than I have been able to drive it and only had about 600miles and 6 days in the car before it all happened which is not unreasonable to expect a car to cope with that.
I am absolutely gutted as it is solely my first car I've bought and I really liked the model and specification, but I need to get this solved to my satisfaction as it is costing me money in insurance and bank loan for a car now spending it's 5th night sitting in a dealers service area.
Bought a Used Car and Wish Advice
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Originally Posted by heliosuk
