Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)

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  1. #1
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    Default Schedule of costs for LiP

    Ok... I know that it's £9.25 p/h for LiP but how do I go about working out a schedule of costs? Are there standard charges for certain things etc?

    I have probably spent a lot more time than this working on the case... in fact I have lots of letters being sent backwards and forwards since February (statutory requests etc)

    Anyway... comments appreciated if anyone has any experience of this.

    Thanks



    2 weeks signed off from work due to onset of Depression caused by stress of court action
    • 3 waiting days sickness policy - £28.60 x 3 = £85.80
    • 7 days @ 1/2 pay - £14.30 x 7 = £100.10
    -Litigant in Person costs (£9.25 p/h)
    • 2 hours set asideicon hearing and prep. time = £18.50
    • 25 hours statute/legislation research = £231.25
    • 10 hours Defence preparation = £92.50
    • 12 hours reading case law documentation = £111
    • 8 hours drafting letters/emails = £74
    -Travel costs (Reasonable)
    • 5 x (6.6 mile round trip x £0.65 per mile) = £21.45
    - Other costs (Reasonable)
    • Postage (since February 2009) = £15
    • telephone callsicon (since March 2009)=£20

    Total: £769.60



  2. #2
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    May I Ask When Your Schedule Of Costs Needs To Go To The Court

    Ill Post My Own templateicon That I Use In Court Over The Week End

    Not Being Nasty But The Judge Will Not Have Any Of What You Have Posted

    Ill Give A Brief Pointer

    Travel Costs Are At 40 Pence Per Mile
    By Car

    You Need It Laid Out In Colums Like A Spread Sheet

    Like I Said

    Ill Post My templateicon Over The Weekend


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    Quote Originally Posted by postggj View Post
    May I Ask When Your Schedule Of Costs Needs To Go To The Court

    Ill Post My Own templateicon That I Use In Court Over The Week End

    Not Being Nasty But The Judge Will Not Have Any Of What You Have Posted

    Ill Give A Brief Pointer

    Travel Costs Are At 40 Pence Per Mile
    By Car

    You Need It Laid Out In Colums Like A Spread Sheet

    Like I Said

    Ill Post My templateicon Over The Weekend
    Government employees get 65p per mile lol

    I suspect the judge could well award costs on an indemnity basis if the case turns out to be in my favour (based upon the defence I have).


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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    Take My Word For It

    Ive Been In Court A Few Times And Its 40 Pence Per Mile

    Courts Dont Like Lip Claiming The Costs Solicitors Etc Charge

    Unfair I Know But You Need To Keep The Judge Sweet From The Start


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    Quote Originally Posted by postggj View Post
    Courts Dont Like Lip Claiming The Costs Solicitors Etc Charge
    I accept the 40p a mile but I have gone through the CPR and it states:

    Litigants in person

    48.6

    (1) This rule applies where the court orders (whether by summary assessment or detailed assessment) that the costs of a litigant in person are to be paid by any other person.

    (2) The costs allowed under this rule must not exceed, except in the case of a disbursement, two-thirds of the amount which would have been allowed if the litigant in person had been represented by a legal representative.

    (3) The litigant in person shall be allowed –
    (a) costs for the same categories of –
    (i) work; and

    (ii) disbursements,

    which would have been allowed if the work had been done or the disbursements had been made by a legal representative on the litigant in person's behalf;


    (b) the payments reasonably made by him for legal services relating to the conduct of the proceedings; and

    (c) the costs of obtaining expert assistance in assessing the costs claim.


    (4) The amount of costs to be allowed to the litigant in person for any item of work claimed shall be –
    (a) where the litigant can prove financial loss, the amount that he can prove he has lost for time reasonably spent on doing the work; or

    (b) where the litigant cannot prove financial loss, an amount for the time reasonably spent on doing the work at the rate set out in the practice direction.


    (5) A litigant who is allowed costs for attending at court to conduct his case is not entitled to a witness allowance in respect of such attendance in addition to those costs.

    (6) For the purposes of this rule, a litigant in person includes –
    (a) a company or other corporation which is acting without a legal representative; and

    (b) a barrister, solicitor, solicitor’s employee or other authorised litigator (as defined in the Courts and Legal Services Act 19906 who is acting for himself.




  6. #6
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    Well Well

    Its In Black And White But Put That In Front Of A Judge ,

    Judge Lottery Springs To Mind


    I Think We Need A Site Team Comment On This

    I Myself Had A Slapped Wrist From A Judge Claming The Same Costs As An Opposing Sol In A Case I Won


    He Allowed Me Half


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    Absolutely... I will see if anyone can help with it...

    Cheers for your advice so far

    Quote Originally Posted by postggj View Post
    Well Well

    Its In Black And White But Put That In Front Of A Judge ,

    Judge Lottery Springs To Mind


    I Think We Need A Site Team Comment On This

    I Myself Had A Slapped Wrist From A Judge Claming The Same Costs As An Opposing Sol In A Case I Won


    He Allowed Me Half



  8. #8
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    I work in a specialist IT role where I charge my time at specified hourly rates when I work for clients. These rates are on my web site and I have invoices going back several years that back-up the hourly rates that I charge. Would I be able to charge my time as a LiP at these rates since I can prove that's what my hourly rates/charges are?


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    Quote Originally Posted by PRBrown View Post
    I work in a specialist IT role where I charge my time at specified hourly rates when I work for clients. These rates are on my web site and I have invoices going back several years that back-up the hourly rates that I charge. Would I be able to charge my time as a LiP at these rates since I can prove that's what my hourly rates/charges are?
    LiP costs are for time spent doing the work of a solicitor from what I understand.

    I think you can claim for time lost from work though; if that is a proven hourly rate and you have either lost work to defend court action or have had to take time away from the office dealing with it, then I suspect you can claim this hourly rate.

    But as you can tell I am unsure the to complete level of detail about costs so if you look in on this thread soonish someone "higher" up the food chain might be able to advise better.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    An old example that maybe helpful.

    Example of Costs Summary

    If I have been helpful please click on my star and add a comment.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoT View Post
    An old example that maybe helpful.

    Example of Costs Summary
    Legend

    Good thing I kept a diary


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    Some links and a draft bill of costs posted by surfaceagentx20. HTH

    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...t-1789979.html



    http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk/forum/show-post/post-1701510.html

    I have prepared a draft bill of costs for detailed assessment and draft notice of commencement. Both are attached in pdf format.

    In drawing the bill I have tried to keep it as uncomplicated as possible whilst seeking to demonstrate how to maximise the amount which might be allowed. The documents may be of general application in litigation to include for example, dealing with a costs claim after successfully obtaining an order setting aside a Statutory Demand, after making all such necessary modifications to suit.

    The bill begins with a narrative dealing with the nature of the case and the complexity of it as I imagined it may have appeared to the LiP. My imagination should not be treated as a statement of how the complexity in truth appeared to the LiP.

    Next is a chronological statement of the steps taken in the case as they will appear on the court file. I have not bothered to go through the entire thread to establish what occurred on what day. The LiP will have to do that.

    I have included provision for time spent which has been charged at an hourly rate of £9.25 in accordance with The Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975. I can not stress enough that where time is included this is only a statement of time for the purpose of demonstrating how the figures would appear in the bill. My statement of time is not an estimate of time. Only the LiP can say how much time was spent and my statement of time may be an under- statement or an over-statement, I would not know.

    It is worth pointing out however that the court will recognise that a LiP will most likely spend more time in a case than a solicitor. The relevant Rule is CPR 48.6 with guidance appearing in The Supreme Court Costs Office Guide (COG) Practice Direction at CPR PD 48 COG 22.4 and .5.

    The question for the Judge considering the bill is if this case had been conducted by a solicitor, what would that solicitor’s reasonable total charge have been for doing that work? Having arrived at that hypothetical figure, the costs judge will assess the bill but disallow whatever the total bill comes to from exceeding two-thirds of the hypothetical figure.

    It seems to me the hypothetical solicitor may have spent say 6 hours dealing with all the work set out in the bill from beginning to end. At an average charge of £150.00 per hour, that produces a hypothetical figure of £900.00. In other words therefore, if the Judge held my view about what the hypothetical solicitor may have charged, the amount to be allowed to the LiP ought not to exceed £600.00. As you will see, my draft works out at £573.50.

    What to do Next
    Complete the bill adapting the narrative to your personal experience in terms of actual work done and actual time spent. Feel free to add to it where I have not imagined work which you actually did. Insert the dates and sign and date the bill.

    Next complete Form N252 available from the HMCS website here.

    You will need to complete the court and party details in the box on the RHS.

    The draft N242 I have completed gives the position as if my figures were used. Where the total used in the bill is to be different, put that figure in the first figure box where N252 says: ‘The bill totals £xxx.xx’. (figure [1])

    Next, add £300.00 to figure [1] and put whatever this figure in the next box where N252 says:
    the full amount payable (including the assessment fee) will be £xxx.xx). (figure [2]).

    Next insert a date in the box before which is written: ‘You must serve your points of dispute by’. This date will be a date being not less than 21 days after the date on which your opponent receives the bill and the N252. In practice, add 25 days to the date on which you post the bill out to your opponent. If that date should fall on a Saturday or Sunday, insert the date for the following Monday.

    Next fill out the box which provides a name and address at which the opposition may deliver any response to the bill of costs. The response will be entitled ‘Points of Dispute’. I don’t imagine one will arrive and if one does, how to deal with it will be dealt with in a later advice.

    Next, leave the box beginning: ‘I certify that I have also served’ blank

    Next, at the very end of the bill is a third figure box before which is written ‘If I have not received your points of dispute by the above date, I will ask the court to issue a default costs certificate
    for the full amount of my bill (see above*) plus fixed costs and court fee in the total amount of £’ . In this box take the figure [1] and add £45.00 to it. This is the figure which goes in this box (figure [3]).

    Print the N252 off, sign and date it.

    Next, send the bill and the N252 off to the opposition’s solicitor.

    After Having Sent the Bill and N252.
    Make a note when the 25 days will be up.

    I would expect the opposition to make contact with you in an attempt to settle the question of your costs. So as to avoid hassle and heartache, I would be prepared to settle at anything which came to about one third rather than two thirds of the hypothetical solicitor’s bill. On my example, that would be around £300.00 plus the court fee. You may want to settle at something less just to be shot of it.

    If any offer comes in which is wildly below £300.00 post to this site for advice. I would imagine the opposition will be very keen to settle since objecting will tie them into expense they will wish to avoid and any savings will soon be wiped out by employing a solicitor to deal with the objections.

    When the cheque comes in, make a donationicon to CAGicon.

    If you have not heard from the opposition by when the 25 days are up you will be entitled to apply to the court for a default costs certificate. When that moment arrives, post here.

    Any queries, just ask.

    x20
    Attached Files

    Draft LiP bill of costs for detailed assessment.pdf (56.6 KB, 98 views)

    Draft Notice of Commencement.pdf (29.9 KB, 65 views)




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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    cracking post citizenb

    any news on surfacegent

    was great at getting confirmation on things (second opinion)

    very much missed


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    Nice post there citizenb... thanks!

    I'm still a bit miffed at getting hit for £200 costs in my set asideicon if I am being honest... considering the merits of the Claimant's case it could be argued they are due absolutely nothing

    Just before Xmas too... my kids will be disappointed


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    Quote Originally Posted by postggj View Post
    cracking post citizenb

    any news on surfacegent

    was great at getting confirmation on things (second opinion)

    very much missed
    Yes, very much missed postggj.. I think he is probably just very busy with his day job

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  16. #16
    janensteve
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    in a small claimsicon case £2k being claimed. i presume as a defending LIP i can only cliam travelling costs 40p per mile by car, attendance (to include travelling time and attendance at court say £9.25, i am self employed and say a few hours reserach because the cliamants claim is all over the shop as well as reply to defence filed 3 months after allocation)


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    Hello Janensteve!

    This may help, something I Posted on another Thread, but worth repeating here:

    One good tip on Litigant in Person Costs, is to know that the 2/3 Cap only applies to your Time Costs. IOW, the LiP Rate of £9.25 an hour.

    Thus, when drawing up your Bill of Costs, always split it into two main sections, i.e. Time Costs and then Disbursements.

    There are no limits on Disbursements, provided they are clearly reasonable and in keeping with the work done.

    Disbursements are things like Postage, Carrier Costs, Printing, Paper, Ink, telephone callsicon, Car Fuel & Car Running Costs (to get to/from anywhere as part of the work done), Photocopying, Scanning, Accommodation, Travel & Subsistence, i.e. anything where you can substantiate a reasonable Disbursement.

    Thus, it is quite conceivable that a Litigant in Person's costs could exceed that of a Lawyer, because a Lawyer is not allowed to include routine items like Paper and Ink etc. This is because it is assumed they include that as part of their fees, and have Gofer Staff to do the Menial Tasks for them. By comparison, the Court knows that a Litigant in Person would have to do everything themselves, and those tasks usually have a cost.

    For example, if you use a Car or Bike to get to Court, then establish the mileage to Court and double it (because you also have to get back). Then find out a reasonable average for the cost of Fuel in your area. Then establish a reasonable Miles per Gallon, say, 30mpg for an average vehicle and, from that you can submit a Fuel Cost. Then add a reasonable running cost per mile for a vehicle, perhaps 10p or even 20p a mile, all is OK provided you can argue it. It could be higher if you factor in Road Tax, Depreciation, Running Costs, work out the annual cost, and divide that by 10,000 Miles average, and it may well work out at 50p a mile. Multiply that by the round trip mileage to Court, and that's the Disbursement for that!

    IOW, if a Lawyer's fees would've been £1,200 and you claim £1,000 for your Time, then the 2/3 Cap would limit you to £800, that being 2/3 of the £1,200 a Lawyer would charge.

    However, if you can show £600 in Disbursements, then your total fees would exceed the Lawyers, i.e. £800 allowed on Time Costs, and £600 for Disbursements, makes £1,400 in total, and that could be allowed because you are not getting more than the 2/3 Cap on your time.

    So, make sure anything that is a Disbursement is removed from your Time Costs, and make sure you do charge for every second of your time at £9.25 an hour...the Court will limit you to 2/3 of a Lawyer's fees, but better that than under-claim and get less than you deserve.

    Finally, there is Case History to support this:

    Wulfsohn, R (on the application of) v Legal Service Commission [2002] EWCA Civ 250 (8 February 2002)

    Also...

    Mealing-McLeod v The Common Professional Examination Board 2000 All ER D 436.pdf
    With thanks to PT2537 and Richard Spud, who pointed me in the right direction on this a while ago.

    Cheers,
    BRW


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    hello all

    lets all have a fab 2010 and keep positive as always informative info posted on this thread that i can again learn from

    thanks to all laters angel x

    Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.

    my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

    This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    good information .....


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Schedule of costs for LiP

    There is a fantastic amount of information on this thread. Thanks to all.
    I am readying myself for my 4th hearing as a LIP in a family case in the High Court. A scary prospect with 5 days scheduled.
    My nutty ex just won't stop making fictitious allegations. I've been through £100k of legal costs so far and can no longer afford representation. I'm hopeful that a judge may award costs and want to put a schedule of costs together for presentation to the court.
    Do the same rules described above also apply to Family cases? And any pointers on any differences?
    Many thanks for any feedback.



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