Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder wesleyt43 Novitiate

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    Default ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    Hi, my daughter has an account with ebayicon, she lives in her own home and has her own bank account etc, in August this year as she was away on holidayicon I used my debit card to make a one off payment onto her account, then in September she sold a few items, all which went well but noticed on her account she had been charged twice for the same sale, she queried this with ebay who said thay were looking into it, her bill was for 247,81 and should have been after removing the double charge made by ebay should have been 152.40, she was sent a bill for the full amount stating that she owed the full amount,

    she then took advice from the CAB who said she had infact been charged wrongly, so the outcome was she refused to pay her bill until it was sorted, heard nothing back from ebay at this point, on her ebay account it still showed she was beibg told she owed 247.81. Attempted to ring ebay and she was told its being looked into. Then yesterday I went to buy an item using my debit card and it was declined, which was strange so I rang the bank and was told that an amount of 247.81 had been paid as a direct debiticon payment to ebay, I had not given any authorization to ebay to take this amount or my bank to pay it. I was told by my bank to go to ebay so I rang ebay and was told that th epayment had been made manually on line as it had been before in August (which was when I made a one off payment to my daughters bill,

    So I rang the bank who said it was showing up as a Direct debit payment not an online payment, so I rang back ebay, put my daughters account up on screen and was told by the ebay person I was talking to to go to the accounts page and click on it which I did , he then said to look at the part on the page where it shows automatic payment method and see what it said, next to it was the word none,

    he said Oh" and said that I must have set my card up using ebay, so I went back to my bank who said if my card had been set up ebay would have took a small amount to prove it was my account and that this had not showed up anywhere on my account,

    so back to ebay I went and basically told them they had wrongly took mney from my account and that the only way my card details could have been got by them is when I made a one off payment, at this point he told me to go to the authorities and hung up,

    Sorry for rambling on but basically ebay have stole money from my account, I have checked allthrough my daughters ebay account and the only bank detalils in it are her own, but since she was overcharged she did get her bank to put a stop on any payments going out to ebay until they correct her bill and resend it to her,

    yet now I am out of pocket, ebay are refusing to speak to me other than go to the authorites and the bank are just telling me to go to ebay, they are of no help whatsoever, any advice will be really appreciated


  2. #2
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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    There's too much information!

    If it was your debit card, and you did not make the purchase, then your bank is duty bound to refund it. Complications arise if it is a Maestro, but if Visa there should be no problem. Your issue is with your bank, not the merchany (ebayicon), and it is they who have to prove to your bank that you authorised the purchase. Now, if you did NOT link your card to your daughters ebay account, it will not show up as one of the payment methods on file. If it does, then either you or your daughter linked it - and your chances of a refund slim.

    However, if the double charging issue is resolved, then there won;t be a debt and the fee refunded anyway - so why is she not pursuing this?


  3. #3
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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    Was it a direct debiticon payment or not? Your post is unclear. If it's a Direct Debit payment then you're covered by the Direct Debit guarantee and so your bank have to reverse the payment immediately if you ask them to do so.

    Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.


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  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder wesleyt43 Novitiate

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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    Hi, thanks for responding, at the moment the bank are telling me I have to contact ebayicon, and request the money back, its a visa debit card, I am at the bank in the morning and have printed pages from my daughter account to take with me, it clearly shows the only payment method on her account is her own card, she has also sent in copies of the double charge to ebay where it shows that for one sale 2 charges were made on her seller account for each sale she made, at the moment she is still waiting for ebay to get back to her, (the payment they took was for a sale not a purchase and she was disputing this bill with the double charges on it), my card is not linked to my daughter account anywhere. Another matter is that there was only 62.00 in my bank yet my bank still let it go through, I have since also found out that ebay attempted to take the funds from my account 3 days earlier and it was declined so why my bank allowed it to go through only they can explain, Thans for the advice


  5. #5
    Basic Account Holder wesleyt43 Novitiate

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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    Sorry I know I rambled but I was so angry, it was took from my account as a direct debiticon payment. I did ask the bank yesterday to reverse it and I was told that I have to get an admittal from ebayicon that they took money from my account without my permission and only then they will get me to complete a form for a very lenghty process or so I was told my bank is the halifaxicon.


  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder Feebee_71 Informative Feebee_71 Informative Feebee_71 Informative

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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    I don't have a lot of knowledge of this sort of thing but, surely if your bank are saying they have correctly given money to ebayicon from your bank account by direct debiticon then they must be able to show that you have sent them a direct debit mandate to allow this.

    No DDicon mandate no legitimate transaction and no leg to stand on for the bank?

    Apologies if I am wrong.

    Feebee_71


  7. #7
    Basic Account Holder wesleyt43 Novitiate

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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Feebee_71 View Post
    I don't have a lot of knowledge of this sort of thing but, surely if your bank are saying they have correctly given money to ebayicon from your bank account by direct debiticon then they must be able to show that you have sent them a direct debit mandate to allow this.

    No DDicon mandate no legitimate transaction and no leg to stand on for the bank?

    Apologies if I am wrong.

    Feebee_71
    Thank you, I never even thought of that , have been totally brain dead due to being so angry, I am at the bank at 9 in the morning, will let you know how I get on.


  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder rickyd Novitiate

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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    The direct debiticon guarantee scheme puts the onus on the paying bank to refund the account holder.

    The suggestion that the a/c holder gets ebayicon to admit blame is total b*ll*cks!

    There is no requirement whatsoever for you to chase this, it is for ebay to prove they were entitled to take it.

    March back into halifaxicon and demand that they raise a Direct Debit Indemnity against ebay and to refund the disputed amount into your account. They have a statutory 48 hours to do this or be in contravention of the rules. There will be a requirement for you to complete and enquiry form in order to get full details of the disputed payment but it shouldn't be too long.

    They have no leeway whatsoever in this, there's no discussion its a straight refund. Once you have reported the problem they refund you and then pursue ebay for the money. Its then up to ebay to contact you to argue about how much you may or may not owe them.

    Don't be a victim here - be very firm and polite but stick to your guns on this, they must refund you, no ifs or buts!

    here's a useful link, but there are many others. http://www.bacs.co.uk/bacs/businesses/directdebit/collecting/pages/customersrights.aspx



  9. #9
    Basic Account Holder Feebee_71 Informative Feebee_71 Informative Feebee_71 Informative

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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wesleyt43 View Post
    Thank you, I never even thought of that , have been totally brain dead due to being so angry, I am at the bank at 9 in the morning, will let you know how I get on.
    Good luck,

    I will look in when I get home from work in the morning and see how things went at the bank.

    Feebee_71


  10. #10
    Basic Account Holder wesleyt43 Novitiate

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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by rickyd View Post
    The direct debiticon guarantee scheme puts the onus on the paying bank to refund the account holder.

    The suggestion that the a/c holder gets ebayicon to admit blame is total b*ll*cks!

    There is no requirement whatsoever for you to chase this, it is for ebay to prove they were entitled to take it.

    March back into halifaxicon and demand that they raise a Direct Debit Indemnity against ebay and to refund the disputed amount into your account. They have a statutory 48 hours to do this or be in contravention of the rules. There will be a requirement for you to complete and enquiry form in order to get full details of the disputed payment but it shouldn't be too long.

    They have no leeway whatsoever in this, there's no discussion its a straight refund. Once you have reported the problem they refund you and then pursue ebay for the money. Its then up to ebay to contact you to argue about how much you may or may not owe them.

    Don't be a victim here - be very firm and polite but stick to your guns on this, they must refund you, no ifs or buts!

    here's a useful link, but there are many others. http://www.bacs.co.uk/bacs/businesses/directdebit/collecting/pages/customersrights.aspx

    Thank you so much for this very helpful response, they take one look at me in a wheelchair and think that they can take the p,,, I was so angry, now calmed down and ready for in the morning, bank app at 9.00am will be back and let you all know how I get on, thanks again.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    Again, you need to clarify the payment method as you keep switching from saying it was via a Visa debit card and then saying it was a direct debiticon - which is it?

    If it was a Direct Debit, then all you need to do is quote the Direct Debit guarantee to your bank, which reads as follows:

    If the amounts to be paid or the payment dates change, the organisation collecting the payment will notify you normally 10 working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed
    If an error is made by the organisation or your bank or building society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid
    You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by contacting your bank or building society. We also recommend you notify the organisation concerned.

    Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.


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  12. #12
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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    I dont follow this, what was the Ebay payment for ?. Fees for sold items ?. Anything you buy off Ebay wont be billed through them, you pay via paypalicon or cheque or another method.

    Andy


  13. #13
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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    Looks as though DDicon isn't the problem - but a card payment. Differnet rules apply.


  14. #14
    Basic Account Holder Feebee_71 Informative Feebee_71 Informative Feebee_71 Informative

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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    As I read the OP's first post she made a one-off payment for her daughter a few months ago using her debit card. No authorisation set up after the one-off payment.

    Recently Ebay sent a direct debiticon request to the OP's bank account - possibly the one the debit card is linked to - to cover fees that hadn't been paid as her daughter was disputing the amount being charged (double fees for each item sold). Bank (HSBCicon) paid out on the direct debit. OP goes out shopping and debit card is declined as insufficient funds in the account - due to payment taken by Ebay.

    OP checks with daughter's account (am assuming paypalicon) to ensure debit card/HSBC account are not held on file as alternative payment options. Only OP's daughter's card/bank account are listed.

    OP disputes direct debit payment with bank - told to take it up with Ebay; complains to Ebay - told to take it up with bank.

    As I said in my first post on this thread - if the payment is shown as being direct debit then bank have to reverse it as she has never set a direct debit mandate up for Ebay with her bank. If the payment is from debit card then it is an unauthorised transaction - especially as daughters Ebay (assume Paypal) account doesn't list her mum's accounts as being authorised payment methods to daughters accounts.

    If I have got this wrong in how I am reading this then I apologise for that,

    Feebee_71


  15. #15
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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    For the record, it is NOT possible for a merchant to turn a card payment into a direct debiticon. As lax as the banking system is, it is still not possible for the merchant to conjure up mandate and claim the acceptance of the cardholder/customer. It HAS to be a 'fresh' transaction, complete with the fll knowledge of the account holder. Previously this required the signatureicon of the account holder (that originally had to be sent to the bank complete with supporting signature) but they must retain this in case of a claim of a mis-applied mandate.


  16. #16
    Basic Account Holder wesleyt43 Novitiate

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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    Hi, went to the bank, still not happy, the bank said that it is showing as a card payment , not a DDicon as I was told over the phone, and they cant request it back, I have again been told again to ring ebayicon, ebay attempted to take payment from my account on the 25th Oct but payment was declined, and they again requested it on the 30th, yet this time it was paid, all the bank have done is open a dispute which I was told will take 120 days, as the payment took us over our overdrafticon limit and our account has been passsed to collections the only person that gave me some advice was the person from the collections dept who they put me on the phone to in branch, and she suggested that if I contact the fraud dept of our bank and give them the details as the payment is in dispute, it will show once they look into it how the payment was requested on from ebay, as the bank say it was a payment using our card but then we have been told that this will show up if this be the case, on an e-mail from ebay it states

    Subject:
    Action Required -- Credit/Debit Card Payment Declined
    Received:
    25-Oct-09
    From:
    eBay
    Expires:
    10-Nov-10

    EBay Account ID: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Card: VISA XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-xxxxxxx

    Outstanding Payment Due: 247.81

    Hello xxxxxxxxxx,


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    eBay sent this message to xxxxxxxxxx
    Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    We are writing to alert you that your monthly eBay seller fees have not been paid because credit/debit card declined eBay's attempt to automatically deduct the amount due.






    Now what this wording means I have no idea and ebay wouldnt tell me, now if ebay attempted to automaticall deduct money from the account which was mine on the e-mail, then surely no one has made a payment on line using my card which is what the bank are still suggesting, now time to ring the fraud dept to see if they can be of help.



  17. #17
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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    That makes it tidier.

    Now, the issue is how your debit card came to be used in this way (as a registered funding source). You may have inadvertently set this up when arranging to make a payment for a single item, and then did not remove the card after the event.

    In that situation, ebayicon are right - it was a linked card to your daughter's account. The details were voluntarily provded by you, so there is no issue of eBay doing anything wrong here. I'm aware of a number of parents allowing their cards to be used in this way because their kids are not old enough to have a credit card - so it is hardly unknown.

    However, since the issue was all about a vouble (incorrect?) purchase debited twice - why are you not also pursuing this?


  18. #18
    Basic Account Holder wesleyt43 Novitiate

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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    Hi, just got off the phone with for once a helpfull person with ebayicon and they have actually said that they have no idea why the payment was not took from my daughters bank as her card details are set on her account, and took from mine, which he said is not linked anywhere to her account, they have said they will ring me later on when they have looked into this, as only my daughters card and bank account are linked to her ebay account.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    And what of the item that was charged twice?


  20. #20
    Basic Account Holder wesleyt43 Novitiate

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    Default Re: ebay took money from my account without permission!!!!!!!!

    That problem of the extra charges were sent in to ebayicon 5 weeks ago, with print outs showing the charges and sales showing that she had been charged twice on 5 occasions, and they are apparently still looking into it,



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